<p>Emmybet’s comments are always thoughtful and logical. Gwen, a campus visit is likely to clarify a lot with respect to fit and feel. I have “heard” that the difference between the BA and BFA mostly has to do with the number of required theater credits, and that ultimately, a BA student can choose to take most if not all of the same classes taken by the BFA student. In the end, the final list of courses might appear almost identical. The true difference between the two degrees may be the letter F. We will visit the school for the Point Park Theater Experience early next month where such matters will be discussed. Still, I hope to have individuals address this issue well before then, by phone or email. In the end, it is my D’s choice, after analyzing the type of training, financial matters, and feel. Also, we have several more schools to hear from that might have a profound effect on the decision (Gwen we have yet to hear from Hartt, one of my D’s top choices). Thank’s all!</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is why they design the program this way. Wouldn’t it make it much less anxiety provokng if it was BFA – BA so long as it was not a strict numbers based cut like Emerson. </p>
<p>OddDad/Eve – have they given you numbers based on past classes? That to me would be the best way to get a handle on this. If its like 1-3 or so that don’t move on – you can pretty safely say there may always be 1-3 in any class for which a BFA is not a right fit and that you’ll safely move on. If its more like 7-10 sort of numbers that would be a huge red flag to me. As for between the two, I don’t know other than it would be a pause for concern where you need some serious questions answered as the criteria around the decision making</p>
<p>I think you have gotten some great advice here, but just a quick thought: you have your reasons why getting a BFA is important to you and I bet that it’s not just to have a diploma with “Bachelor of Fine Arts” written in it, but rather to get the BFA training. If you want a program where most of your classes will be theatre-related and you will have fewer gen-eds, then even if you get through to the BFA track at Point Park, I don’t think that having to spend 1 or 2 years doing the BA would be the best choice. But that’s just my oppinion…if you’re fine with doing the BA for a year or two and love the program, then I’d say go for it!</p>
<p>(But if you’re gonna be unhappy for two years, I don’t think it’s worth it)</p>
<p>ActingDad, we have not yet received those numbers, but they will absolutely be requested. I agree it is a somewhat unusual way to set up a program, but that’s just my opinion. Milky, from my research so far, it appears as if the gen eds are not overwhelming the first two years…in other words, a student can pack those first years pretty heavily with theater-related courses. My greater worry is whether there is an extremely high likelihood of moving on to the BFA tract. If history says it’s not much better than 50/50, my D will not be pleased (nor will I). And, I’ve yet to confirm whether the BFA audition is late first year or second year. The answers to these questions will emerge, sooner than later I suspect.</p>
<p>All great advice here - and helpful for anyone who is reading up on these things and learning about the process. I am sure that Eve and her Dad will make a thoughtful decision - and we know she has great options, which is the most wonderful thing.</p>
<p>I agree that sometimes the only difference might be the “F” in the degree name (very clever!). Some BFAs have just as many gen eds as BAs, and only marginally more theatre classes. They can range from 50% of your required coursework to almost 100%. Some BAs can have room for so many electives that you can make them heavier in theatre classes than some BFAs. So it really is a question of what you really want, and how the experience plays out. This is why I think making a projected 4-year chart is so helpful in the decision.</p>
<p>As for timing of classes, it is true that in many BAs you can’t start a heavy load of theatre training. But I think very often in these BA-BFA situations you start freshman year with a very similar schedule to what a BFA student would do at that school - a solid theatre program and some gen eds, based on the overall requirements. What then makes the difference can be a lot of factors: I’ve seen that when you move into the BFA track, perhaps you take more intensive acting classes, or a higher percentage of theatre classes (that are required, or guaranteed), or your performance opportunities change. Sometimes your opportunities are more limited - so someone who wants to do more design/directing/playwriting (i.e. more “theatre arts,” but just as serious artistically) might need the time given in the BA for those courses. It’s different at every school. </p>
<p>Just last night my H and I were talking about just what kind of degree our D will have. I think in some ways her perfect world would have allowed her to get a BA AND a BFA. She will have some kind of academic certificate from the Honors College, but it won’t be a degree, nor even a major. She may take a minor in an academic area. But her diploma will say BFA. </p>
<p>What will this mean? It definitely will mean a lot having to do with how she has spent her time - probably 60% guaranteed in theatre, with pretty much all EC time also in theatre, plus more electives, and also summer work focused in theatre. Anyone who sees her resume will get the point that she spent most of her time in college on theatre, and that she will have had a strong, well-rounded, broad-based and training-focused program. </p>
<p>If she had a BA, where she spent just as much time and energy on theatre, she could very easily show people that theatre mattered as much to her as if she had a BFA. I don’t see that it necessarily labels you as less focused; it just might need a tiny bit more explanation, unless the people looking at your resume really know the school and its reputation for training in a BA degree (eg Northwestern, Vassar, Muhlenberg, and many more). </p>
<p>Will there be downsides to having a BFA? Sometimes I wonder if someone will think she doesn’t have a “proper” college education. Sometimes I wonder if she wants to switch gears and go to grad school in another subject that she’ll have to take some more courses or something. It happens that her BFA will be very strong in academics. And you can’t plan for everything. She is doing what she wants, and she found a school that gives her the right balance and opportunities. We’ll all just have to see what happens. </p>
<p>This is an exciting and fascinating aspect to education - the pathways are so varied and can be individualized, with lots of wonderful results. But those results do still remain a mystery, especially during this crucial planning phase. Good luck to everyone!</p>
<p>ActingDad I feel like you hit the nail on the head-- why add to the stress? They’ve accepted you to a certain educational program, and likely you’re paying a lot for that education. So why not a BFA ->BA? I’m sure PPU has its reasons, and maybe they’re good ones, but I can’t see them from here. </p>
<p>The “F” in BFA was the idea of the ensemble for my D. She wanted to go to a school where she would come in as part of an ensemble that would work together all 4 years. UNCSA was her top choice (and I’m so excited for ActingDad’s D, can’t wait to hear more!). But she has that ensemble at Hartt and she has had the busiest, most challenging, and happiest year of her life there. (So am crossing fingers for OddDad’s D, though I’m sure there are great opportunities at PPU too.) </p>
<p>It’s probably good for everyone to think of what that F means to them.</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for this thread. My son and I were discussing this program this morning as I was reading it. He got a highly generous scholarship and it is so tempting but the stress of a second audition is overshadowing it all. It really is so hard.</p>
<p>photomom5—if the stress of a second audition is no different than the “auditions” that students must endure at most BFA acting programs after the first or second year, I will likely have little difficulty accepting the PPU process. Unfortunately, I have yet to obtain the necessary information about the nature of the PPU audition process, and, until I do, this will remain a troubling concern. It might be useful if Point Park officials monitored threads like this, and responded on occasion, but, failing that, it’s up to parents like us to confront them with these questions.</p>
<p>I feel differently about juries than I do the auditions. My daughter’s program has juries but she knows that if she continues to work hard, she will get a BFA. I do not have a handle on the process at PPU to have that same degree of confidence.</p>
<p>OddDad/Eve – you guys are so passionate and thoughtful about this process I wish we could just assign you my daughter’s Hartt acceptance. We’re contacting them on Monday to let them know my daughter won’t be attending so cross my fingers that this will free up the spot for you!</p>
<p>ActingDad—I’m certain I have never received a post with more meaningful words. It choked me up! Thank you so much! I’m so pleased that you and your D are in a position to pass on a program as wonderful as Hartt. Kudos to you both!</p>
<p>Wish wish wish I could hit a like button!!! The care and support on this thread off cc is off the charts.</p>
<p>This is a wonderful thread so full of information and support! Even though our situation is different, I will be very interested to hear the answers you receive from PPU, OddDad. </p>
<p>By the way, is the Point Park Theatre Experience an official visit weekend or are you and your daughter just visiting on your own?</p>
<p>When my son was applying to BFA programs (Design) 2 years ago, I was quite startled to learn that one of the top colleges had what I’d term a huge attrition rate from their admitted class. One current year (juniors) had already lost 9 or 10 from an incoming freshman class of about 20. That was in line with other years where a sharp dropoff–student decision in most cases–made me wonder what was up? Was the rigor of the program too tough? Were the academics or requirements for GEs too tough? In private cc IMs, we did hear that the pace of the sequence of classes frustrated several (most?) who had to wait until junior year to take the sort of substantive classes they hoped for and no underclassmen and few upperclassmen actually got to work on designing productions (they had MFAs doing a lot of that). That was what we heard from 1 poster privately, so I don’t want to name the school for fear the reasons were overblown, although the attrition rates were confirmed. I’m posting this here as you all think about the BA-BFA cuts and auditions. My suggestion is-if possible-to ask a current student WHO gets cut, what the feeling is in the program about this practice, and if they can shed more light. Sometimes an issue looms large when we’re are on the “outside” of a program, but from within, it is a non-issue.</p>
<p>Congratulations to all who are experiencing great news. Rah-rah for those still waiting.</p>
<p>It’s funny. My D’s acting coach has this impression that college confidential is a place where crazy competitive parents are making things worse for their children at least when it gets to decsion time. Now a lot of her kids are MT kids because she gets referrals from a voice coach so maybe its that way over on the MT board which I rarely ever read. I’m pretty sure she doesn’t read the boards. Just gossip she hears. </p>
<p>Nothing could be further from the truth. I’m a nut. When I joined however long ago it was I read through all the hold archive threads and most of everything up to current day. There were some years when a nut would come along like WallysWorld and throw the board into a tizzy but it was fairly rare. As for this year, this has been a remarkable group kids and parents. I’ve always told people that there is something special about families and kids drawn to the theater world and this board has confirmed that. I’m very happy to send her off to this kind of family. </p>
<p>OddDad – I’m touched by your response. When Milkshakespeare brought back from the dead that post of mine when we started the process, I’m a bit embarrassed reading it now. I did not understand then how fortunate she would be now to have the choices she has. Two early acceptances created a huge false confidence. That was followed by no call back and rejection at Purchase, no call back at Juilliard, no call back at Depaul, no call back at Rutgers and rejection at CCM. My D began questioning everything and thinking whe wasn’t getting into any other schools and was having trouble connecting to the fact that two very good schools had said yes.</p>
<p>I never thought of being here to connect to other’s stories when we started this process. I was just wearing my engineer/lawyer hat and trying to get as much information as I could to help my daughter reach a dream she’s had since she was a little girl. But along the way I’ve come to care about what happens to the people who’ve shared their stories. I actually shouted out loud when I saw that milkshakespeare had gotten into CalArts knowing how badly she wanted it and the effort she’d put into getting there. For Eve (and OddDad), I’m so hoping you find that place that is the fit for you.</p>
<p>Bravo ActingDad !!!</p>
<p>
Our daughters share the same acting coach and I noticed she advised parents to stay off of CC. I think that she may have an impression of CC derived from the tone of many of the academic forums, which are often dominated by a competitive, somewhat aggressive tone. I only read the theater, MT, and music forums, where the tone is very different and supportive. Sure, there is occasionally disagreement, but if we were all in complete agreement all the time, that would be a sign that something was wrong. A healthy discussion board is a great place to mull over topics where there are no right or wrong answers, only different points of view. </p>
<p>If not for CC my daughter would not be a double-majoring in playwriting and acting at Fordham, which she has confirmed (came home for break just yesterday) is THE place for her-- we heard about Fordham on CC, and were it not for the mom of a student doing the same double major (SandKmom, who used to be a frequent writer here) my daughter would not have known about it. </p>
<p>When I started reading the theater forum here about 3 years ago, I knew nothing about theater program admissions (even though this would by my fourth child applying to college.) I learned so much here, and found the atmosphere to be very supportive.</p>
<p>Also to piggyback on what ActingDad said, theater admissions are more competitive than other types of program. If not for the support here, it would have been far more painful to weather those rejections, and we would have valued the acceptances far less. This forum helped us put things into perspective.</p>
<p>Very much in agreement with ActingDad’s and Glassharmonica’s statements.</p>
<p>^^Me too–I was very sheepish about confessing to my colleagues in our school’s college counseling office (I’m a teacher/class dean) that everything I learned about this process was from CC, but it’s been unbelievably helpful, certainly in terms of knowledge and nitty-gritty info and also, enormously, in terms of camaraderie and moral support. My family may roll their eyes just a bit when I start quoting my “imaginary friends” on CC, but you guys (and the many years’ worth of archived posts) are the reason we are seeing a light at the end of this tunnel! </p>
<p>And while my son hasn’t quite reached the point where he’s willing to post himself, he IS reading the forum too–just found that out the other day–ha! :)</p>
<p>My son is one of the kids who acknowledges how helpful CC has been. He’s never read the forum very extensively, but he has actually posted a few times, as “YoungThespian.”</p>