Pomona or Stanford

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I can't believe it. I just got accepted to my top two choices. I can't make up my mind at ALL.</p>

<p>Both are very similar to one another. Sunny California weather. In their own little bubble yet not entirely away from major cities. Equal academic quality. Beautiful campuses designed by the same architects. Top notch in nearly all disciplines, which will fit my diverse interests. Quirky, friendly, well-rounded, diverse, and talented student bodies, though Pomona's is a little more intellectual and Stanford's is a little more athletic. Stanford has the prestige, Pomona has the closely knit community feel and the consortium, and both are well regarded by top employers and graduate schools. </p>

<p>I got a full ride from Pomona and based on Stanford's FA calculator will have to contribute around 3000 a year. I'm planning on majoring in physics and economics. What should I chose? What do you think? </p>

<p>To tackle some misconceptions early on since Pomona is often underestimated/unknown:
+ Pomona is richer than Stanford on a per student basis. After having done considerable research on both schools it appears that Pomona will pay for activities and opportunities more than Stanford will. Thoughts</a> on Education Policy: Top 50 Endowments Per Pupil
+ Pomona has the higher SAT and ACT mean per student. In other words, the intellectual capacity and ability of both schools are equally matched.
+ Smog isn't a big issue in Claremont. A friend of mines goes there and says the issue is overhyped.</p>

2

<p>Your post is all about Pomona. It seems like to me that you already know what you want, but are undecided because of the Stanford name. (?)</p>

3

<p>Does it seem that way? But I love Stanford too. In fact, it has always been my dream school- Pomona I just found about recently. Stanford will probably provide me with a greater course selection, more research opportunities and internship opportunities as it is in the hub of the silicon valley and entrepreneurship, is in a better location[prefer North California to South California], carries the bigger street name, and is linked with more prestigious students and facility than Pomona can claim. I’m pretty sure Stanford has the better physics program too, but I have no merit to back this up.</p>

<p>I visited both Stanford and Pomona and did notice more cohesiveness and unity at Pomona. Stanford people are friendly but pretty independent. Other than that I felt right at home at both of them.</p>

4

<p>For physics and for economics, this is an easy decision: </p>

<p>Stanford</p>

5

<p>You seem to know about the main differences (research, course selection, etc.). I’d also emphasize the greater variety of student interests, both in and out of class (nearly 700 student groups).</p>

<p>Stanford’s also ranked in the top 5 in virtually every field, so if you think you might change your major, you have the comfort of knowing that no matter what you major in, your professors will be leaders in the field. Both physics and econ have a very long rich intellectual history at Stanford; most of the Nobels still on faculty (17 currently) are in physics and econ. The physics facilities at Stanford are unequaled: the longest linear particle accelerator in the world, synchrotrons, nanofabrication facilities, machine shops, etc.</p>

<p>Do you know what you’re interested in within physics and econ?</p>

<p>Endowment-per-student is a misleading figure. Here’s something I posted recently about this:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Of course, it’s impossible to separate out graduate-only spending, but most spending on the graduate division has an influence on the undergraduate division as well (e.g. facilities). It’s worth noting, also, that the budget-per-capita at Stanford is higher than even that at Harvard (~$200k), Yale (~$220k), and Princeton (~$200k). Endowment-per-student is even more misleading at small liberal arts colleges, whose endowments are small but whose student bodies are even smaller. So, for example, Bryn Athyn College also makes it to the top in endowment-per-student, but only because it has ~200 students. These small endowments won’t pay for study abroad fellowships or a new dorm or a new endowed professorship. In other words, these endowments haven’t reached the “economies of scale” to do anything very useful beyond paying for salaries and such, as the larger endowments have.</p>

<p>I can almost guarantee you that Stanford is more willing to throw money at its students than Pomona - because it has so much money it doesn’t know what to do with it. For example, Stanford spends more on undergraduate research ($5 million) each year than any other college. You can get grants to do almost anything, from on-campus research to field projects to public service. Student organizations get funding from the ASSU and the university. Half the student body studies abroad, many of them multiple times. The university spends lots of money on speakers; past ones include the Dalai Lama, the writers of The Office, Yoko Ono, presidents of various countries, Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates, and of course all the [tech</a> giants](<a href=“http://ecorner.stanford.edu/speakersAuthors.html]tech”>http://ecorner.stanford.edu/speakersAuthors.html) who come to campus regularly (Mark Zuckerberg in particular pops into classes randomly). Stanford hosts [conferences[/url</a>], [url=<a href=“http://scn.stanford.edu%5Dconcerts%5B/url”>http://scn.stanford.edu]concerts[/url</a>], [url=<a href=“http://livelyarts.stanford.edu/]performances[/url”>http://livelyarts.stanford.edu/]performances[/url</a>], and many other events that wouldn’t be possible at Pomona. The venues at Stanford are also better, from concert halls to auditoriums to theaters to small group spaces. Stanford just has a lot more money to throw around and thus offers more support for students and student groups. Some other links that might interest you:</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://events.stanford.edu/]Events”>http://events.stanford.edu/]Events</a> at Stanford](<a href=“http://conferences.stanford.edu%5Dconferences%5B/url”>http://conferences.stanford.edu)
[Student</a> Activities & Leadership](<a href=“http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/sal]Student”>http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/sal)
[On-Campus</a> Funding](<a href=“http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/sal/manage/on-campus-funding]On-Campus”>http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/sal/manage/on-campus-funding)
[Student</a> Grants for Research and Creative Projects | Undergraduate Academic Life](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_Grants.html]Student”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_Grants.html)
[Haas</a> Center for Public Service](<a href=“http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/haas]Haas”>http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/haas)
[Public</a> & Community Service | Undergraduate Academic Life](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_public_comm_svc_PublicCommunityService.html]Public”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_public_comm_svc_PublicCommunityService.html)
[Research</a> Opportunities | Undergraduate Academic Life](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_ResearchOpportunities.html]Research”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_ResearchOpportunities.html)</p>

<p>I’m from Southern California and know that Pomona is really great (the high school I went to always sends a student or two there). I always thought it was underrated, and if it weren’t for Northeastern bias on US News, it’d be in the top 3.</p>

<p>And while I’m a SoCal native, I agree NorCal is way better. From Stanford you have access to Silicon Vallely, cities like San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose, as well as the whole peninsula and the rest of south/east/north bay. And don’t forget about the natural landscapes: the bay itself (there’s a sailing class at Stanford, in which you actually get a sailing license), the foothills for hiking, the Santa Cruz Mountains for camping and hiking, the beach and ocean 30 minutes away, and wine country just north of the Bay. Just a drive away are Yosemite and Tahoe: a Stanford tradition each year is an all-expense-paid dorm trip to Tahoe wherein your dorm rents a large house or two for the weekend and students spend it skiing, soaking in hot tubs, partying, and telling themselves they’re going to get work done. :p</p>

<p>In short, while Pomona is really awesome, IMO Stanford has it all. :)</p>

6

<p>By the way, if you still care about endowment-per-student, note that the link you posted is erroneous. It includes all those enrolled in credit courses for Stanford, including all those who aren’t students but are paying to enroll through distance learning in [url=<a href=“http://scpd.stanford.edu%5DSCPD%5B/url”>http://scpd.stanford.edu]SCPD[/url</a>]. No resources are expended on these students, and they are not counted in the [url=<a href=“http://facts.stanford.edu%5Dofficial%5B/url”>http://facts.stanford.edu]official[/url</a>] student count, which is 15,723. (I don’t know why the author of that post included those students for Stanford, but left them out in Harvard’s case.) So Stanford would be $1.05 million/student, putting it at #5, not #10, and insignificantly different from Pomona’s $1.09.</p>

<p>If you calculate it based on the merged pool ($19.5 billion), that number is $1.24 million/student. As the CEO of the Stanford Management Company explained the MP:</p>

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</p>

7

<p>Education is an investment. Stanford would be a brilliant investment. Pomona, not so much, to be quite frank about it. It’s not even as good an investment than Berkeley is. Your ROI coming out of Pomona is substantially lower than coming out of Berkeley, and most especially, Stanford.</p>

8

<p>If you like the more intellectual vibe and the LAC orientation at Pomona, take a look at the Structured Liberal Education (SLE) at Stanford for freshman. D was a SLE-er and loved it. She described them as ‘her people.’ It’s like a LAC within Stanford - so you live with and take your humanities distribution requirements at SLE (in-dorm seminars with the best faculty on campus) and take your other two classes with the rest of the school. And just to be clear, SLE-ers aren’t from the humanities - D was a STEM major. (What SLE doesn’t include are the athletes, whose practice schedules don’t work with the afternoon seminars.) If you do a search for SLE, you’ll see a lot more about the program. </p>

<p>As for a potential physics major, Stanford would clearly be the way to go with cutting edge research in that area. Economics is more of a toss-up. The cost difference is negligible.</p>

<p>I loved Pomona, by the way, so no trite slams here. It would be my first choice among the LACs, and might be a better fit for certain people.</p>

9

<p>I strongly disagree with RML about Pomona’s ROI. But as the kids say, ‘whatev’.</p>

<p>For physical sciences, that Junior University on The Farm is a no-brainer, unless you really want the LAC experience. (And quite frankly, with thousands of students in the Claremont Consortium, Pomona is not that LAC-like, at least compared to its east coast competition such as Amherst and Williams.)</p>

10

<p>^ hmm I wasn’t 100% sure what your alma mater was before; now I think I know. ;)</p>

11

<p>Just got the package from Stanford. 6500$ a year.</p>

<p>Thanks for your points, guys. I’ve looked up both departments and Pomona appears to be phD physics oriented while Stanford appears to be more detail oriented. Both seem to be equally tied for economics. I do think Stanford gets misjudged academically because its grad options are exceptional- undergraduate is harder to measure and LACs tend to never be judged. Both schools are as good as they get in terms of overall academics.</p>

<p>Also, one of the best economics program, CMC, as well as physics program, HMC, would be right at my finger tips with Pomona, which allows 1/2 classes in other schools. </p>

<p>Stanford does probably have the better facilities, but how many are open to undergrad? </p>

<p>I’ll write a bigger post later; I’m at the library and it’s about to close xD</p>

12

<p>Congratulations!! That’s incredibly impressive. Before I start, I want to say that you cannot possibly make a wrong choice. Unless you pick Stanford. Just kidding. I go to Pomona, and therefore am (obviously) biased, but I’ll try to give you a rundown of your choice as objectively as I can.</p>

<p>Pomona, while it never feels constrictive because of the consortium, is distinctly a liberal arts college, not a university. You WILL recognize a large percentage of the population by the end of your first year, just through mere exposure. That being said, you’ll probably keep meeting new people, just because the total population of the 5-C’s is so large. We also have small classes (once you get past the introductory classes, which run to about 30 students), very available professors, and - despite our obscene endowment - our facilities are somewhat limited. For example, my roommate desperately wants to take Portuguese, but the program was just cancelled.</p>

<p>Stanford can offer you better athletics, BY FAR, if you care about that (although our baseball team did just beat the second-ranked DIII team). The two schools probably have equally terrible mascots - they’re the Crimson; we’re the Sagehens. They also have infinitely more prestige, at least at the layman level, although graduate schools and educated employers are very aware of Pomona’s quality. Stanford probably has the superior alumni network, although Pomona’s is reportedly excellent.</p>

<p>Pomona has better weather, hands down. It’s the difference between Los Angeles and the Bay, which is the difference between, say, a 10/10 and a 9/10, but still distinct. It’s sunny here all the time, except when it rains, which is just frequently enough to prevent the sun from getting boring. There is no smog here whatsoever. Seriously - and this is coming from a guy who almost didn’t come to Pomona because I was concerned about the heat - it’s great here.</p>

<p>Now for your specific departmental questions. Economics is huge at Pomona. Yes, it’s even huger at CMC, but seriously, more than half of my friends are econ majors. It’s ridiculous. I haven’t taken a class in it and so can’t speak to the quality, but I’m sure it’s great just because everything here is great. I have taken a class in physics, and I can assure you of that department’s quality as well. Then again, I have no doubt that Stanford is equally qualified in both of these areas, and probably has more prestigious faculty, if you care about that. The difference is that you’ll have much smaller classes and closer access to the professors at Pomona, and much greater opportunity for research.</p>

<p>The consortium will also give you a lot of opportunities for classes, although to be honest, you don’t really need the other schools unless they’re offering something Pomona doesn’t (like engineering at Mudd). As in, you probably won’t take econ at CMC just because they focus more on it. This is simply because Pomona is so strong academically that there’s not a drop-off in quality between it and any programs at the other 5-C’s.</p>

<p>Pomona students are really happy. Seriously, they are. It’s not perfect, and I could give you a (short) list of complaints, but I can’t imagine a student body more content with their lives than the people here. With that, I conclude this monstrosity of a post. Once again, congratulations, and good luck!</p>

13

<p>

There was a poster on CC a while back who chose Pomona over Harvard, despite considerable discouragement and disagreement. “Not once have I felt any regret for my decision” was the phrase used to describe her experience as a sophomore.</p>

<p>I would be curious to know if you have ever set foot in a classroom at Pomona, met any Pomona professors, explored facilities at Pomona, etc. The blatant bias of posters for certain colleges is increasingly irritating me, and I’m going to start calling people on it.</p>

<p>I do agree that Stanford may be the better pick for econ – financial fields seem to be very prestige-oriented, much more so than other careers, and Stanford is certainly highly regarded in that respect.</p>

<p>I am curious to know how many students are doing “cutting edge” research in physics at Stanford. How many students are primary authors in Nature? Present research at APS? My experience has been that undergraduates are rarely engaged in anything major and that the prevailing attitude toward undergraduates in labs is one of irritated tolerance, but I am both in a different field of the sciences and have attended different universities – I cannot attest to Stanford or Stanford physics. I would be surprised but pleased to hear that the experience there is different.</p>

<p>It’s true that no LAC can match the depth or breadth of research at a major university, and often they cannot afford to buy expensive equipment. (Or even they could, they wouldn’t because cost greatly exceeds demand.) Given that Pomona places students in graduate programs like Caltech’s and has students win Goldwater, NSF, etc. scholarships, however, I’m sure their research opportunities are adequate if not outstanding.</p>

<p>(I personally would choose Stanford. I don’t think it’s a no-brainer, though.)</p>

14

<p>Maybe RML stops by for a bathroom break on a drive to Las Vegas? :)</p>

15

<p>Can’t go wrong, it’s hard to think of saying no to either of these schools.</p>

16

<p>I can recommend that you sit in on Physics classes at both schools. My DS has – and he felt there was a major difference in the teaching. Many physics classes at Stanford rely on the quantitative material being taught by TA’s, many of whom do not speak adequate English. The professors are more often interested in teaching the theoretical material – and there can be a big gap when it comes to exam time. Just my observation. I strongly encourage you to find out WHO will be teaching different types of material, WHO will be leading extra study sessions, WHO can you contact if you’ve had the flu for a week and are lost? Also, inquire about the curve in this major. Is there a certain percentage of the students predetermined to come out with C’s? Do the students work together in study groups when the going gets tough? Do your homework on this important choice. Ask tough questions. These two schools are very different institutions, with very different strengths. Try to pursue your own answers, irrespective of others’ opinions, including this one! If you approach the choice with enough questioning and critical analysis, the answer regarding the best institution for YOUR undergraduate education will become crystal clear to you, I have no doubt. Good luck!</p>

17

<p>Who wrote about taking classes at CMC and Mudd? Contrary to the opinion of my esteemed Sagehen, you will have to look at the consortium schools for the best in each department. And THAT is what the 5-C is all about! </p>

<p>As far as differences, it will come to intangibles. Will you fit in at a smaller school, especially at one that tends to be the most insular of the five Claremont as it suffer from a misplaced sense of grandeur. It is an amazing school but has more than its share of insufferable economic and academic snobs. I encourage to read the Pomona forum on CC, and you will get a sense of what is to come. Not always pretty! Then read the Stanford forum or the post bf students who attend Stanford. Which ones do sound … Like you?</p>

<p>All in all, the decision should be rather easy. Your heart should tell it within seconds of visiting. You’ll know if you are Sagehen or. … Cardinal material without great difficulty.</p>

<p>PS Check your FA package from Pomona again, I doubt they now waive the minimum student’s contributions.</p>

18

<p>I’ll be attending Pomona next fall. It was my absolute top choice, due to its extremely friendly, open, inquisitive and accomplished students, in addition to its terrific access to professors. Pomona tends to emphasize cooperative learning, and they do look for students who share this perspective. As a result, there’s a strong sense of community at Pomona, along with many curricular and social advantages offered through the 5C’s.</p>

<p>Great post from earlybird, with very sound advice. Best of luck in making your decision!</p>

19

<p>Beware of posters demonstrating obvious bias. A college choice ought not to be an argument to be won. Those encouraging you to ask difficult questions are on the right track. Never accept received wisdom as your own wisdom. Your choice should really be guided by your own first-hand sense of the environment in which you can best thrive and grow.</p>

<p>Earlybird1 has given you some substantive questions to ask. I wish you the best of luck in deciding between two wonderful schools.</p>

20

<p>phantasmagoric: Yes, you’re right that endowment-per-student is only one measure of an institution’s financial resources. I wouldn’t make any decisions based on that one indicator – or any other single indicator.</p>

<p>That said, I don’t buy your economies of scale argument as it relates to these two schools. At some point, yes, it would matter – if, say, a school had 10 students and a $10 million endowment then the $1 million/student figure would be misleading b/c they couldn’t hire just one faculty member for those 10 students like most other institutions. But there’s not much that $19 billion can buy for 19,000 students that $1 billion can’t buy for 1,000 students. The whole point of calculating it per-student is that faculty costs (personnel costs are the largest part of the budget) are relatively fixed on a per-student basis, and so a school that had $5,000 per student left over after paying faculty would have a lot more money to spend on study abroad and other services and programs for each student than would a school with only $1,000 per student. This is evident if you imagine a school with a much larger endowment than Pomona – say $10 billion – but also a much larger enrollment – say 100,000. The only way the latter could provide the same services would be to hire fewer faculty per student (or pay faculty a heck of a lot less). Conversely, the only way they could afford to hire the same number of faculty of the same quality would be to skimp on other services. </p>

<p>Regarding the enrollment figures used for Harvard and Stanford, I used the numbers reported to – and then published by – US News & World Report: [National</a> University | Rankings | Data | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/data]National”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/data)</p>