Would welcome any insight-- Daughter trying to decide between Pomona and Wesleyan for an ED school. Interested in anthropology/history/English/creative writing. Has toured/visited both, but w/o students on campus, it’s a struggle to figure out best fit.
She understands Pomona is a long(er) shot admissions-wise, but does not want to automatically choose it for that reason.
How inclusive/welcoming are these two schools?
How collaborative is the culture?
How intense is the workload for this type of student (she wants time to have a bit of fun, not study 24/7)?
Does either school have a pervasive drug culture (she currently does not party).
How politically active (she has a liberal but more moderate mindset) are these schools?
Is there grade deflation or inflation at either school?
Guessing ED2 is not nearly as much as an advantage, but if anyone has insight specific to ED2 at either of these schools that would be super helpful.
Any advice on how to figure this puzzle out would be MUCH appreciated!
I would differ with that statement to this extent: Progressive/SJW people will certainly find their people there; but, there are many more moderate/apathetic students in attendance. In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and posit that the 5 College Consortium of which Pomona is a part, probably has more SJW “types” once you add the students at Pitzer and Scripps to the mix.
On a different subject, there is a definite party culture at Wesleyan, but, again - it’s a somewhat bigger LAC than Swarthmore let’s say. There are people who smoke pot; there are people who like to drink beer on weekends; there are also plenty of people who do neither. No one culture dominates and that’s the beauty of Wesleyan.
I asked a current professor at Wesleyan that very question not long ago. I won’t name him but he was one of the bigger muckimucks in the Psychology Department. I was particularly interested in how the faculty of today compensated for the fact that so few of them - unlike in my day - actually live in Middletown. He examined me with a kind of ruthless intensity and then gave me a patronizing answer to the effect that “You have nothing to worry about on that score. We have plenty of interaction with the students.” I take it that many faculty make the effort to invite their students to lunch occasionally. And, of course, all faculty are required to have regular office hours. Beyond that, I think a lot depends on how good a student you are; many faculty develop a rapport with the majors in their own departments, especially the ones who’ve chosen a field of interest similar to their own.
From a new Pomona dad, FaceTiming every day with his D: even after being in a big-city public school and in a city-wide choir rooted in the civil rights movement, she finds Pomona very, very diverse and inclusive. And within a week, she got involved in SJ activities.
ED2 in Pomona, at least from what we heard when she applied, is treated pretty much the same as ED1. There is a recognition and acceptance (among AOs) that some kids who eventually choose Pomona first must apply to HYPS because their life would be incomplete without it
There seem to be a lot of reading from the get-go but then again, she didn’t sign up for easy stuff. Plenty of opportunities to party both within Pomona C. and at other 5Cs.
Wesleyan has been known to have a drug culture and an administration that has been permissive in that regard. However after some high profile drug issues it seems that the administration has become less permissive.
Through recent experience at Wesleyan and dated experience at Pomona, most people would find both schools to be on the welcoming/inclusive side of the spectrum.
How collaborative is the culture?
I can’t speak to Pomona on this point. Collaboration is a cultural pillar at Wesleyan, a school that has really emphasized inter-disciplinary learning. See, for just one small example, the IDEAS curriculum at Wes, profiled in this article:
Wesleyan is a school full of kids double majoring in disparate courses of study with the full encouragement of the faculty. I don’t hesitate to cite this as a real strength at Wesleyan.
How intense is the workload for this type of student (she wants time to have a bit of fun, not study 24/7)?
I think neither school is going to have an easy path through. The hallmark of any selective LAC is that you have a lot of smart kids, it’s difficult to hide and with fewer numbers the professors can ask for more. My D, who was a full IB kid and thus used to a heavy load, found Wes to be rigorous. That said, I don’t think it’s a sweat shop. As I’ve written before, the CSS kids have a visibly difficult and heavy load, but that’s what they signed up for. In terms of your D’s interests, I can’t speak to it. My D had her hands full with a double natural science major. Of note, Wesleyan’s Shapiro Writing Center has Amy Bloom in residence and produces what I’m told to be a pretty heavy hitting annual writers conference over the summer as well as a summer writing intensive. It’s a strong program as Wes.
Does either school have a pervasive drug culture (she currently does not party).
There was an OD scandal at Wes a few years back that got a lot of pub. More so than the publicity generated when Jon Bon Jovi’s D ODd at Hamilton. Wesleyan dealt with it firmly. Kids do drugs at every school my kids have attended. My other D who attended a LAC saw several runs to the ER for athletic teammates who had boozed to the point of alcohol poisoning, and my Wes kid was never, ever anywhere near anything like that. You can find those crowds if you want to, and certainly avoid them if you don’t, in each case w/o much social compromise.
How politically active (she has a liberal but more moderate mindset) are these schools?
You’ll see me write here that there are few things more overblown and simplified than Wes’ reputation for activism. Yes, it’s there. No, it won’t be a monolithic point of experience for you over 4 years if you don’t want it to be. I don’t know about Pomona, but I’ll leave it at this: if a person does not attend Wesleyan for fear of too much activism, then, if they’re being at all sincere, they will also avoid a whole heck of a lot of other fantastic colleges too. I think about it this way: who would not attend Dartmouth because of its legendary Greek hazing history (which has been chronicled many times in troubling detail in the NYT)? Just don’t pledge. My D’s club teammate, one of the most serious kids you’ll ever meet, didn’t let it stop her from attending D. Likewise, activism is not a reason to not attend Wes. Having said that, I can’t imagine Pomona is any more politically active than Wesleyan. I’d score this as a “don’t worry about it for either school” myself.
Is there grade deflation or inflation at either school?
I’ve not heard one way or the other for either school. My D felt she earned every A she ever received at Wesleyan. There was no sense among her or the other kids in her orbit that grades were easy to get. For whatever it may reveal, making Dean’s list at Wes is pretty tough in that you need a semester GPA of 3.85 or higher, whereas at many other schools the requirement is at or above a 3.5 or a 3.65. The latter is the cut-off at my other D’s selective LAC. IDK what it is at Pomona … it can be looked up.
These are great choices. Congratulations to your D and best of luck to her. Feel free to PM me, or ask here, if there is anything else I can answer. We really had a fantastic experience with Wesleyan and recommend it whole heartedly to a wide variety of kiddos.
This may represent a credible reason for an accomplished student with other potential options not to include Dartmouth on their list at all, in my opinion.
Pomona definitely has grade inflation. Look at this chart for the cutoff GPA to be named a “Pomona College Scholar” which is a recognition given to the top 25% each semester. Pomona is on a 12 point grade scale so divide by 4 to convert to a 4 point scale. Pomona College Scholars | Pomona College in Claremont, California - Pomona College
I guess credibility is a subjective concept. There is so much more going on at Dartmouth. Many kids get through with a great experience and never go near a frat party, much less are subjected to that nonsense.
On that basis, everyone should also avoid pretty much all of the great state flagships.
No question there are schools where over-the-top Greek culture truly defines the school experience. I would posit that’s not the case at D.
There are plenty of kids who stay away from some state flagships because they don’t want to attend schools where greek life goes a long ways toward shaping the culture of the institution. These same kids also tend to avoid Dartmouth for the same reason.
As to how this relates the OP’s question, it all depends upon how much the social activism shapes the culture. If being around a large cohort of left-leaning social activists would make a potential student uncomfortable, then that may be a reason to avoid such a college.
My daughter is also an IB Diploma candidate and I’m concerned about the lack of free time she currently has…In college, I want her to have time to do things other than studying…She has no interest in STEM, but I wonder if even the Humanities majors at these two schools would be all consuming. If so, I may discourage any ED apps at these fine schools.
Re: the SJW culture part of the question, she cares about these issues and would self-describe as liberal (but moderate), but is just hoping to avoid a situation like what occurred at Haverford College last year…
My D, and her teammate and junior year roommate who did CSS, were varsity athletes in a very demanding and competitive (at Wes) sport. Yes, they were busy kids. They still did things … lots of things … and had active social lives, but my D would tell you that she was scheduled out. Mind you, as a natural science double, she had labs too, and they are time consuming. Of course, much depends on the kid, but if your kiddo is not planning on being a varsity athlete, I think she’ll be fine. There might or might not be an adjustment period, but the rigor of IB will have her well prepared to handle it and I’m confident that she’d have the time you want her to have. Sports takes up a ton of time. My D subsequently attended Smith to do a post bacc year of advanced mathematics and is now in grad school and has found both loads to be very manageable because she’s no longer a varsity athlete. It’s all relative to what one is used to.
That’s a key variable, wherever your D goes to school.
On the SJW part, as you’ll see reflected in my response to @mtmind in a moment, I guess I need to check myself and make sure I’m not overly projecting my attitude on others. In our house, we are fairly centrist, with some left and some right views on a few specific issues. I guess our attitude was, getting into these schools is hard enough without eliminating swaths of them beforehand by insisting on environments that are entirely or mostly free of something that’s not their cup of tea. I guess it’s how “free” of that thing you think your kid needs to be. From what you write, your D sounds a lot like my (then) a-political kid in that she isn’t allergic to activism, but isn’t planning on making that her central focus in college. I can assure you that at least at Wes (and I presume at Pomona as well), it won’t be a problem. All I can say is that, if it were me and I otherwise liked Wesleyan, activism would not be a reason to not go. I should add that my D learned a lot and grew from her upper middle class suburban self through her exposure to kids at Wes who had passionate views about this or that. FWIW.
I don’t disagree with you @mtmind . As I mentioned in another reply on this thread, I am probably loading my/our own attitudes in here a bit.
On the one hand, I recognize that there are campuses, even those with 25,000 or more students, where the Greek system really dominates campus culture. Probably influenced at least in part on our own biases, we assume many of these are in the southeastern US. Being out west, schools like UofA, ASU and WSU carry that reputation as well (and based on where we live and our greater social circle, I can almost confirm those reputations).
I guess that’s why I picked Dartmouth and its reputation for being fratty. It’s definitely present and well established and, for lack of a better word, intense. Plus, Dartmouth is not located in an urban location with millions of distractions to help dilute the effect of their presence. And yet, we are connected with more than a handful of Dartmouth alumni and kids and only a few of them were actually in the Greek system, and all of them were super happy at Dartmouth.
I guess I view it a little like our infamous thread on Smith and the racial profiling matter. You had a few people there grinding an axe on Smith, which is fine. They are entitled to their view about that one incident and criticize Smith leadership about it. But as someone who actually had a kid there for a full academic year and two summers, I find it unseemly and misleading of anyone to then ward off potential students by at least suggesting that they are going to spend 4 years in a ‘toxic environment’. Mind you, this thing happened one year before mine showed up, and my D had a wonderful time in Northampton and at the school. I’ve learned more about what happened in 2018 on CC than I ever did from my D or visiting Smith and Northampton several times. It was just an entire non-factor.
I guess what I’m saying is, in my own subjective view at least, we tend to make bigger deals out of these happenings than we should. Again, IMO. Like the thread on Middelbury and vandalism. It would be ABSURD to me to castigate the whole school or student body based on the drunkenness and bad behavior of a few seniors and on that basis eliminate Midd from consideration in one’s college search.
Then again, especially at small schools, there might be an overwhelming cultural bent that would be a legitimate turn-off to many. For example, even though I had athletes, I personally tend to disfavor campus cultures that over-emphasize sports and have too much of a divide between athletes and non-athletes. That, to me, is a palpable issue because of the high % of athletes on small LAC campuses. So I suppose we all have our pet peeves.
Anyway, that’s a lot of writing to just say that I see your point and mostly agree.
I think we are mostly on the same page, and 100% on the same page regarding the Smith thread and similar threads. That said, not every elite college is necessarily a good fit for every student, but the trick is to distinguish between the publicized and politicized aberrations from the day-to-day culture of the place.
So right. And I suppose I should concede that, at some point, people have to make a decision based on something. If a student is fortunate enough to be admitted to several good schools that fit the bill academically and otherwise, they have to pick one. So vibe and predominant culture is important.
