<p>Well, I know this is asking a lot: I want to compare Vassar, Pomona, Swarthmore, and UC Santa Barbara in four areas: atmosphere (relaxed, cordiality, friendliness); biology (1st major); creative writing (fiction and poetry), and religious studies.</p>
<p>Does anyone have anything they can tell me? Thanks very much.</p>
<p>Swarthmore>Pomona>Vassar> UCSB. Swat and Pomona are absolute tops among the SLACs, P. not unexpectedly is a bit more laid-back (SoCal style) and S. more academically intense. Swat’s biology department is outstanding, and the religion/writing programs also excellent.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.</p>
<p>Really? Swarthmore>Pomona in what? Swarthmore>Vassar in what, for that matter?</p>
<p>All three of those LACs offer top-notch academics, IMO. It would be perfectly reasonable to make a decision based on something like location. Unless you’ve had personal experience with all three, it’s difficult to say something like that.</p>
<p>An opinion was requested and rendered. I will reiterate that “Swat and Pomona are absolute tops” (could have expanded that to include Amherst and Williams), which really doesn’t amount to dissing P.</p>
<p>I wasn’t concerned about you dissing Pomona. I could care less. I actually disagree with your ‘SWAP’ assertion, but I won’t go into that. The op is asking for advice, and I don’t think you should be blatantly biased while giving it. He/she asked for specific departments, and I highly doubt you went through the trouble of really researching and comparing the departments at each school, so why bother ranking the schools? Stick to Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Although Dad2’s response may not have been very detailed in response to the OP’s, there’s no reason to respond with blatant rudeness to his opinion. Why would you go on the Swarthmore Message Board in the first place and expect there to be a completely unbiased opinion to the OP’s response? Obviously adults who post their opinions in this thread are going to either be alumni or have sons/daughters who go to Swarthmore. The OP also posted this very same thread in the Pomona College Message Board so why can you not just respond to the OP’s question in that thread? Clearly there is going to be pride and spirit for one’s college in his/her college’s thread. You might as well go on a football thread and post on a Chelsea message board asking how they feel about ManU.</p>
<p>I have always thought of Pomona as Swarthmore with good weather. 
I have heard more recently that Pomona is more “laid back” than Swarthmore whatever that means. I don’t think there’s any question that they both have a stronger academic pool than Vassar, which also happens to be a terrific LAC. Before anyone jumps down my throat for making a comment about Vassar, I am quite familiar with the school. I am married to a Vassar grad and looked at the school with all 3 of my kids. It’s a great school, just not quite in the same stratosphere as Swat and Pomona.</p>
<p>I have a probable bio major kid and so far he thinks the bio department is pretty top notch.</p>
<p>My apologies if I came off as rude. It was more a casual annoyance at CC school pretentiousness, like ‘SWAP.’ It galls me that people can say these things without any real basis. Vassar was formerly one of the seven sisters and is one of the most famous and incredible colleges in the country. If you visit the school and research all the things Vassar can do for you, you would be surprised. There are very few schools I would have gone to over Vassar, and Pomona and Swarthmore happen to be two schools that can equal it. Pomona also equals Swarthmore in practically every academic aspect, including prestige, and I have nothing but respect for Swarthmore. I know there is bias on college forums, but ranking schools like that without any explanation borders on misinformation. This is a high school senior asking for advice on a very important decision.</p>
<p>^Although I’m not intimately familiar with Vassar, I certainly investigated it closely in my college search and did NOT rank it equal to Pomona or Swarthmore. It’s an excellent LAC, but an equal to Wesleyan, Carleton, Oberlin, and the like. (I don’t include the women’s colleges because Vassar is now coed and must therefore be considered in that pool.)</p>
<p>To the OP: </p>
<p>Biology will be excellent at any school, including UCSB. </p>
<p>Vassar is known for creative writing, but I don’t know anything beyond an outcry over possible budget cuts to the writing faculty last year. At Swarthmore, the creative writing program is small but very flexible and talented IMO–especially for “genre” writing–I’m in Fiction Workshop right now. All of Swat’s true workshop courses require a portfolio to be admitted, so it’s not much geared toward beginners.</p>
<p>On atmosphere, Pomona probably wins, but it depends on what you’re looking for.</p>
<p>Finally, Swat’s religion department is unique in having NO requirements for the major other than 8 credits (= 8 semester courses) and a senior capstone course. Most courses also carry no prerequisite. It’s an extremely accessible department, very focused on the narrow topical study of religion in order to learn the disciplinary methods of analysis.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision! Will finances play a role as well?</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply…finances aren’t the major issue. I appreciate the info.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Like Santeria, I am also not sure where the arbitrary attitude is coming from with regard to Vassar (and, by implication, Wesleyan, Carleton and Oberlin.) Certainly every book I’ve ever read on the subject puts the Vassar campus on a par with Swarthmore’s; both started out with those big Second Empire catch-all buildings and then poured a lot of time and effort into perfecting the collegiate gothic look. Doesn’t historical perspective play any part in these CC discussions? SWAP, indeed!</p>
<p>These are all excellent schools, and matriculants should feel fortunate to attend any of them. That said, from either an historic or current perspective, comparing Vassar to Swarthmore is akin to comparing Penn to Harvard- nothing to be ashamed of, but not a true competitor (in terms of stats, selectivity, endowment, whatever). Getting back to the OP’s query- how many nobel laureates specifically in biology/medicine has Pomona produced (Swat has 3 by my last count)?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But, using that same logic, it would seem that you are implying that Swarthmore is comparable to Harvard. How many U.S. presidents has Swarthmore produced?</p>
<p>^ Swat is academically absolutely comparable to Harvard as an undergraduate college (and that is giving Harvard the benefit of the doubt). Fewer presidents of the U.S are to be expected owing to Swat having been founded over 100 years more recently, being a co-ed institution from the beginning (not too many female presidents) and a far smaller total population of alumni. That said, Williams and Amherst each have one president to their credit (all male until the 1970’s and also older than Swat).</p>
<p>^Oh, so now you’re saying Swarthmore resembles Williams. In what way?</p>
<p>Aw, come on, johnwesley. Swarthmore rejects U.S. Presidents (Obama). And produces presidential rejects (Dukakis). :D</p>
<p>As a Swarthmore Grad, obviously, I love reading about how great the Swat stacks up. But part of me thinks this discussion is really off the point as regards the OP. It’s really about the FIT. What is the best school for the OP? Only the OP knows for sure. Going to a higher regarded school without analyzing the many idiosyncrasies each choice presents could result in a poor FIT and a bad undergraduate experience. I know of one particular student who turned down Swarthmore for a so-called lesser ranked LAC because she didn’t feel Swat was the place for her. She is now thriving in a way she never would have at Swat. We place way too much emphasis on these rankings; in the “real world” very few people make this fine distinctions or care, to be perfectly frank.</p>
<p>
johnwesley - I’ll bite and offer a counterargument. In an objective comparison, ignoring preferences of school *type<a href=“because%20an%20LAC%20is%20a%20very%20different%20educational%20experience%20from%20a%20university”>/i</a>, Swarthmore is not comparable to Harvard, just as Vassar is not comparable to Swarthmore. However, Vassar is an LAC, so the comparison is more likely to be salient, IMO.</p>
<p>I’m also not sure why campus architecture should matter at all.</p>
<p>Wrt to the “second” level of LACs–I don’t see anything inherently wrong with “rankings” as long as you don’t just borrow USNWR’s rankings, but produce them yourself from available data. I adored Carleton, and it was a difficult choice to apply ED to Swarthmore; the difference came down to financial aid policies (Swarthmore is no-loans, Carleton is still need-aware at the border–that’s a big difference in financial ability) and breadth of academic programs (mainly a developing vs. relatively established linguistics department). Notice that I said breadth, not depth. And I would have adored Carleton as much as I love Swarthmore, I’m sure; that doesn’t make them objectively equal.</p>
<p>If the OP has a specific reason to prefer LAC 2 over LAC 1, GO FOR IT. But with the given information, no huge difference jumps out at me. There could be information that we lack, of course.</p>
<p>My sister graduated from Vassar in 2009, and I’m going to Swarthmore next year (both of us applied ED I to our respective schools.) As only a distant observer of her experiences and a Swattie who hasn’t actually lived on campus yet (or a “spec” I guess?), I don’t feel comfortable detailing a bunch of vast over-generalizations on this forum. But personality-wise, the two schools have always seemed very different to me…not SO different that I wouldn’t have enjoyed Vassar, but different enough that I know I’ll like Swat a lot better.</p>