Pomona vs CMC

Colleges and Universities A-Z Pomona College
1

<p>I got accepted to both as a transfer and I'm having a really tough time deciding between the two. I'm planning on majoring in Economics, Political Science, and/or Environmental Studies, but I'm not positive. My pro/con list (feel free to add/edit anything on the list):</p>

<p>Pomona Pro's:
An excellent school all-around, known as one of the best LAC's in the nation
Possibly better departments if I decide to major in something other than Poli Sci or Economics
Dorms are great
Seems to have great connections to other schools (study abroad at Oxford or Cambridge, etc)
More well known than CMC and harder to get accepted
Students are stereotyped as being more laid back than CMC students</p>

<p>Pomona Con's:
Harder academically than CMC (I know this isn't a good reason but I can't help but be a little intimitadated by the seemingly huge workload)
Not as well connected to the business world</p>

<p>CMC Pro's:
Excels at Economics and Political Science
Students are seemingly very driven to succeed
A lot of high ranking business executives graduated from CMC
CMC's website talks about being focused on economics, politics and the environement, which is almost exactly what I want to do</p>

<p>CMC Con's:
Not as well known as Pomona (is CMC somewhat of a Pomona-reject school?)
Students are stereotyped as drinking a lot</p>

<p>Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!</p>

2

<p>If you're set on your major, then I would say CMC, as long as you can deal with the environment. If not, Pomona has just as strong, if not, better departments and while it may not be as well connected as CMC in the business world, it's not like a Pomona degree won't carry you far. At this point, I think you should settle for which school would be most suitable for your personality</p>

<p>By the way, CMC isn't the "Pomona-reject" school. In fact, I'd say they're on almost equal footing; they just look for different types of students.</p>

3

<p>No way CMC is a pomona reject school, they have the same admission rates, the only reason they have so many transfers this year is cause they're building new dorms/expanding, due to two hundred-million-dollar donations. On the first admissions go round I picked schools based on their reputation and look how that ended up. As an econ major you should know that getting past admissions is a sunk cost - now that you're in to both, you shouldn't be looking at admissions toughness.</p>

<p>I think CMC's got way better job placement/emphasis than Pomona, especially for economics and government jobs - if you're looking for that sort of major it's the best school in the country! Pomona may be better known in general, but the firms that hire CMC kids know how good they are and how good the school is. You can take classes at Pomona from CMC, too, that's what's cool about the 5 C's.</p>

<p>Where are you transferring from? Hit me up</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the responses. x90, you suggested I should choose the one that fits my personality... how can I know which one would fit my personality better? I'm visiting both next week but the students won't be around. gocards44, I'm transferring from the University of St. Thomas (MN)- a relatively unknown third-tier university.</p>

5

<p>Statistically, Pomona has stronger students, but CMC is no longer considered the "Pomona reject" school, as both have comparable admission rates in the 16-18% range. Pomona wins more of the cross-admits, but a factor could be that not everyone knows specifically that they want to go into a program where CMC's offerings won't limit them. </p>

<p>Neither one will put you in a better position to get hired into Econ or Government jobs. CMC has a higher number of people going into these fields because it is their main focus, but in terms of placement rates, when you consider that there are many more CMC students competing for those spots, Pomona and CMC place similarly into these positions. If you are set in going into this field, whether you go to CMC or Pomona isn't going to make any difference. What will make a difference will be how well you do at the school you choose to attend, which again will depend on fit. It's hard to know which one will fit your personality better without being able to visit while students are around.</p>

6

<p>Go to Pomona :D haha</p>

7

<p>I'm looking forward to four years of this rivalry :)</p>

<p>The 5C's are great though. If I ever want a nice grassy quad and a milkshake I can walk on over to Pomona. If I want to be around outgoing, friendly people with social skills I can stay on CMC's campus :p</p>

8

<p>Skyhawkk:</p>

<p>Maybe you should let students who actually attend the 5-C's talk about the social scenes and the differences between students. Come back next year when you've spent some time on campus, and eaten at Pomona, to laud the coop fountain's amazing milkshakes.</p>

<p>X90, Gocards44:</p>

<p>Do you feel you're in any better place to make these judgments? I don't see how you can create any accurate input until at least a few weeks into September.</p>

9

<p>I doubt the workload will be any different at either college. Many freshman at Pomona worry about that or worry that other students will be brighter. If you got accepted you will be able to do well. Pick the school you prefer. We just got back from Pomona's graduation and it is such an amazing place to spend 4 years.</p>

10

<p>Congratulations, Arizonamom!</p>

11

<p>Thank You! We got to spend a lot of time with many of my son's friend's and I am so impressed with the graduating seniors!</p>

12

<p>You mentioned three possible majors--political science, economics, environmental science. As a current Pomona student, I can attest to the strength of all three departments at Pomona, particularly the Environmental Analysis department as compared to what CMC offers. That being said, you have to be careful in picking schools, because Pomona and CMC can be better choices depending on very specific criterion. For example, while Pomona's politics department is superb, with diverse course offerings and excellent professors (recent hires such as Crowe/Mcwilliams, both grads of Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of Government are good examples), its International Relations department is definitely inferior to that of CMC's. In other words, you should look at majors related to the 3 fields you mentioned and evaluate 1) the likelihood of you changing to those majors and 2) both Pomona's and CMC's strength in those fields. Don't assume that the strength of one department will automatically extend to other academically related departments.</p>

<p>What I would say generally distinguishes Pomona from CMC is that it provides more of a traditional liberal arts college experience, from its gorgeous campus, inherited traditions, to more diverse social scene. At CMC, for example, weekend life tends to involve drinking to a heavy extent, while Pomona provides more diverse offerings in terms of concerts, poetry slams in Doms Lounge, ballroom dance events in Edmunds Ballroom, etc. In terms of facilities and campus, Pomona is probably the superior.</p>

<p>However, in terms of specific career related opportunities for politics and economics, CMC has an edge in its 10 (formerly 11, as the Reed Institute has closed) research institutes that provide research opportunities to students. The Kravis Leadership Institute, for instance, also funds 70 CMC students over the summer with about $3000-4000 for public service internships. The Washington Semester Program, where students spend a semester in DC taking courses and interning for political organizations or Congresspeople is another example of a CMC opportunity, though Pomona students can also participate. Pomona, on the other had, offers its spring/fall internship programs that 1) focus mostly on funding internships within LA and 2) limit funding to 100 hours or $900.</p>

<p>In other words, if you have specific, career-oriented goals related to political science/IR or business, CMC will offer you superior opportunities such as the aforementioned paid internships and research positions, as well as closer access to a greater number of professors and the Athenauem. If you have more of an interest in environmental science, the sciences in general, or getting the traditional liberal arts experience, Pomona will probably be a better fit. </p>

<p>PS, I would advise taking a look at Pomona's postgraduate survey to get an idea of where our strengths lie--for example, you'll notice the prominence of science-related scholarships/fellowships like the Goldwater students pick up, due in large part to extensive collaboration between students and faculty in those fields. We also tend to do well in Fulbrights, which is ironic considering the tenuous state of our IR department right now. Pomona</a> College : Career Development Office : Parents</p>

<p>You should also take a look at CMC's research institutes, which are probably its greatest strength--depth of opportunities in political science, economics, and government. Be sure to explore each institute's webpage, otherwise you might miss out of key opportunities available only to CMC kids--for instance, the Center for the Study of Holocaust, Genocide, and Human Rights offers funding to 5 human rights related internships over the summer.
Claremont</a> McKenna College</p>

13

<p>My daughter is a rising junior at CMC and I'd like to second Hungryman's observations about some of the unique opportunities that CMC offers its students. The speaker series at the Ath is unparalleled as far as I can tell. We have many friends with kids at Standford, Brown, Amherst and other top tier colleges and universities, and none of them have such easy access to the top minds of our times, four nights a week. The internships are another incredible resource, readily availible to students with enough iniative to find an agency-anywhere in the country as well as in many Pacific Rim countries- where they can intern. My daughter interned for our city last year and this year has an internship at a non profit, both far away from LA. Her friends are interning all over the country and she hopes to do an overseas internship some time before graduation. CMC really walks its talk about combining a superb liberal arts education with opportunities to put theory into practice in the real world, for their very directed and active student body. </p>

<p>My daughter has never been a big drinker and has a wonderful circle of friends who respect that in her. The different quads offer different exposure to the party scene so you have some choice about how much you want to be in the middle of it all. </p>

<p>Another asset of the CMC community that folks rarely mention is the wonderful diversity of the student body, racially, politically, and economically.
If you want to be in an atmosphere where every idea along the political spectrum is represented, debating with all sorts of people, CMC is the place for you. My daughter wrote her leadership essay on the founder of the Catholic Workers Party and I think that's what got her admitted, so don't buy the impression that CMS is primarily "conservative". At the same time, as Xiggi can attest, there are plenty of conservatives, libertarians and every other point along the political spectrum respresented in the student body. Talking about Wesleyan, my daughter remarked that now that she was at CMC, she thought it would be boring to be on a campus where everyone agreed with her. I don't know about the overall diversity of the Pomona student body but my impression is that politically at least, it is more like other LAC's in its homogeneity. To be perfectly honest I worried about my daughter going to a college where a third of the students were conservative, which is weird considering what a truly "liberal" turn of mind is supposed to be, but it has turned out to be a great and very stimulating experience. I also think CMC students looking to go into politics get a great education in participating in a community where all kinds of opinions are on the table, but the discourse remains civil. That is something our entire society needs to rediscover how to do.</p>

<p>At the same time as I applaud CMC's unique opportunities, I've encouraged my daughter to take some classes at Pomona, because of its absolutely fantastic academic reputation. The 5Cs all seem to have something very special to offer and especially for students who take advantage of the additional opportunities the 5 college consortium opens up, simply can't be beat.</p>

14

<p>Thanks for the responses. I have less than a week to decide and I'm still torn between the two! I'll be out there sometime this week to look at the campuses before making a final decision.</p>

<p>This decision would be easier if I knew what I'm going to major in. I have an interest in Economics and Political Science and I could very well end up majoring in one of them. But on the other hand, I would also love an Environmental Analysis major. And I'm not ruling out going to law school, either. </p>

<p>I thought of a couple more questions....</p>

<p>Does one school tend to have a more active student body than the other? Particularily when it comes to world issues (ie. climate change, Darfur, etc). I haven't mentioned this, but I'm also considering Macalester College in St. Paul, MN and they're known for having a very active student body when it comes to world issues.</p>

<p>Also, is it possible for a student to major in something that's only offered at a different Claremont school? For instance, if I decided to go to Pomona could I still major in the Environment, Economics, and Politics major at CMC?</p>

<p>Lastly, the Roberts Environmental Center at CMC seems to be an advantage for someone like myself who is interested in majoring in Enviornmental Analysis. I've heard (and HungryMan also said this) that Pomona is slightly stronger when it comes to environmental analysis. Comments on that?</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your help!</p>

15

<p>Pomona has a very active and involved student body and I'm sure that CMC does as well. My S had to choose between the two and his visit made the choice extremely clear. He fit at Pomona. Actually as we (parents) walked around campus and chatted with students at both colleges we had a few CMC students recommend he choose Pomona. They felt it was larger, more well rounded academically. In my opinion it would be a difficult college to say no to. AND it is all about fit. If you visit you will know and there are students living on campus still doing research or working at campus jobs.</p>

16

<p>
[quote]
Does one school tend to have a more active student body than the other? Particularily when it comes to world issues (ie. climate change, Darfur, etc). I haven't mentioned this, but I'm also considering Macalester College in St. Paul, MN and they're known for having a very active student body when it comes to world issues.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Both schools have very active student bodies. Generally speaking, I'd say that CMC students are more politically active while Pomona students are more socially/globally active, if that distinction makes sense. Still, there's a good amount going on across the 5C's, much of which is open to students from various campuses.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, is it possible for a student to major in something that's only offered at a different Claremont school? For instance, if I decided to go to Pomona could I still major in the Environment, Economics, and Politics major at CMC?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Each campus has its own rules re: off-campus majors. I've read elsewhere on CC that Pomona does not allow them, but I don't know that firsthand (brassmonkey?). They do, I believe, allow self-designed majors, but you might have trouble designing a program that's similar to something already offered, i.e. I doubt you'd be permitted to design your own Enviro/Econ/Politics major if Environmental Analysis was already available to you. Even if off-campus majoring is allowed, that could be a roadblock. That's only a[n educated] guess on my part, and you should ask Pomona directly if it's a concern.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

<p>ETA: Can't do it myself at the moment, but could someone link this thread and the CMC board's version together? The "CMC v. Pomona" question arises fairly regularly, so for the benefit of future searches, it might be nice to include links between the threads (the OP asked the same question in both threads, but there's lots of different info in the responses).</p>

17

<p>You can create your major if the same thing couldn't demonstrably be done with another major/minor combination. The idea isn't just to simply choose what your diploma should say, because (in the big picture) that isn't especially important coming from Pomona. I don't think you could get a diploma that says "Environment, Economics, Politics Program" from Pomona, because you could do the same exact thing and major in "Environmental Analysis and Economics," which already exists. The difference between these two titles is trivial.</p>

<p>As for special majors in general, you can do them in a whole host of topics, and plan your course of study across all of the 5-C's. You'll end up with a Pomona Degree in ___________(Insert Major Title)</p>

<p>In general, the special majors program can open up a lot of opportunities for students to pursue their educational goals, but the student just needs to demonstrate that it doesn't fall under the purview of an existing department (in this case EA or Economics)</p>

18

<p>My post might be redundant since I was lazy in reading everyone's comments (sorry ;)</p>

<p>On Economics:</p>

<p>(I'm an Economics major at CMC and my girlfriend and future fiance is an economics major at Pomona)</p>

<p>Both CMC and Pomona have an excellent Economics department, but here are the differences and key points: </p>

<ol>
<li>Both schools have a large, sound base in foundational economics - Introductory Economics, Macro-Micro, mainstream economics. Beyond this, they diverge into their two special fields. Once you get to the higher up of the dept, you find CMC specializes in financial economics, currency, trade while Pomona tends to focus on labor economics. I'm not too sure about PO's reputation in the labor economics world, but CMC is very well regarded in the financial economics sphere. They've had their share of glory and path breaking research. </li>
<li>CMC has institutes. While Pomona may match CMC academically, students are more likely to get research opportunities, jobs and interaction with Profs at CMC. I had 3 jobs with 3 different CMC Econ professors at CMC. Why? Because CMC has research institutes: Lowe, Rose, Financial Economics Institute, Salvatori. Without a doubt, on campus jobs with an Econ professor would be much easier to get at CMC than Pomona.
2.1 CMC's Econ faculty publish more. They publish more than Pomona and more than the Liberal Arts Average
2.2. CMC controls their own journal publication. Again, most liberal arts colleges don't have that kind of presence.</li>
<li>Shortage: Both Pomona and CMC are facing a shortage of professors, Pomona moreso. CMC is still doing ok, but Pomona has huge problems. My girlfriend enrolled in a course (Macroeconomics) and it was supposed to be with a senior professor. They faced a shortage, so over winter break, they replaced the guy with a PHD candidate - I **** you not - from Claremont Graduate University to teach. PHD CANDIDATE? FROM CGU? ANd he was terrible by the way. CMC has more money to spend on Econ and they've hired some great new profs. I would be skeptical of Pomona's Econ Department. </li>
<li>CMC gets a lot more speakers. We get a lot of Economists and academics at the Ath and in general. Pomona really lacks in this aspect.</li>
</ol>

<p>Apart from that, you can't go wrong with either. </p>

<p>ON Politically Active:</p>

<ol>
<li>CMC is more politically aware than politically active and Pomona is more politically active than politically aware. We at CMC would have a thousand debates, but most of us would not pickup a torch and our marching shoes to go outside. </li>
<li>Pomona isn't especially politically active/radical protestors like say Pitzer for example. Pomona is as active as any other LAC is. CMC is an exception because of the Econ-Gov specialization. </li>
<li>There is a history: Pomona was very politically active in the 60s and 70s. There were some members of a black student organization that set off a series of bombs over 10 days at CMC demanding a black studies program and quotas for african americans. A black PO student infamously asked 'Do you want your campus burnt down this summer or next summer?' Another PO student is believed to have set a bomb in Story House (now student mail room, then lounge or something like that) because of our ROTC program.</li>
<li>Unofficially, I've been told that the administration enjoys debates and encourages discourse, but dislikes radical protests, marches etc. You can organize any debate and say whatever you want. But if you vandalize, disrupt classes, activity, shout slogans outside an office, they will probably dislike it. Last semester when Pitzer students contaminated the ponds with some chemical that made the water red, the administration lashed back very fiercely.</li>
</ol>

19

<p>Our econ department is not as good as CMC. santino has elaborated well as to why that is not so. I just want to point out that the PhD candidate who was roped in to teach for a semester is an extraordinary exception. And a terrible one at that. I was taught by him (yucks). If I see another econ grad student hired to teach I'm going to write a petition and protest. Fortunately, on the flip side, Pomona is considering strongly putting Prof Slavi Slavov on tenure, and he is an excellent professor whose specialty is International Economics. Hopefully with a new head, and a capable one at that (Professor Khuelwein), our econ dept can take a leaf out of CMC's book and keep improving.</p>

20

<p>D.T., look on the bright side, he gave easy A's. By the way, did he ever tell you about his dissertation topic? It's one of the silliest things I ever heard. </p>

<p>The problem isn't PHD candidates teaching, I mean it is a problem, but the real issue is switching professors after registration. The PHD candidate (who has a really difficult name bdw) wasn't originally listed on the registrar's list. That's effectively fraud. </p>

<p>D.T. I've heard PO is having difficulty recruiting new professors. They're paying so much money for good professors like Andrabi, who are perpetually on sabbatical. I hope this was a straw case and the last of its kind.</p>

<p>Slavi Slavov is an excellent professor and I plan on enrolling in his International Economics class. Dr. Smith is another, but tends to focus on more advanced classes.</p>