<p>I'm still really curious as to why you want a PhD. I can understand wanting to go back to EE, but why a PhD?? It's such a huge task to take on, and you seem to not even have any experience in research. I'm puzzled...</p>
<p>I agree with Addwit, and am also puzzled. You can be a prof at a low-tier school or a community college with just a master's degree. Maybe you should do that for awhile to see if you would really like the prof lifestyle before you commit to a PhD. The PhD is no joke. Plenty of people who embark on that journey do not finish.</p>
<p>A PhD is needed in my case because I want to be a prof at a 'normal' engineering school. I mean, who'll want to be doing teaching and research at a community college? And this really is what I want to do. I don't know how else to phrase it. </p>
<p>Also, I'm presuming that these programs wouldn't let people in if the admissions do not think they're able to finish a PhD. On top of that, I'll probably be admitted to a weak program that isn't as rigorous as others. If I know I tried my best, I'll cope with whatever outcome I'll face in terms of finishing a PhD. ( some do not manage completing the degree but I don't think that should deter an admitted individual from attempting it. That's no way to live life ) </p>
<p>I would appreciate suggestions to my original concerns.</p>
<p>If you want to prof at a "normal" school (and I'm not sure I understand what that means, but I'm assuming you mean a 4-year school), then yes, the program you graduate from will matter. Not as much in EE as in some other fields, but a weak program will hurt your chances of getting a job.</p>
<p>Understand the concerns people are expressing. Many people want to prof, but not nearly as many want to research. As several pointed out, PhD research is no joke. If you don't love to research, you'll never make it through. You may disagree, but this is a concern admissions committees will be raising as well. I really feel going for the MS first is your far better bet. A stellar grad GPA and research will completely overcome your deficiencies, as well as give you a taste of EE research and convince the adcoms you know what you're getting into.</p>
<p>BTW, there is nothing wrong with teaching at a community college. Some of them are very good - the one I went to rivaled the instate colleges intro classes any day (in Illinois). The advantage is that you get to focus on teaching instead of the "publish or die" mentality. Don't assume that professors are only there until they get another job or because they are inferior - look into it with an open mind.</p>
<p>Well, to begin with, do you know what branch of EE you want to study? This is important in picking the school, even for just MS, esp. if you want to continue on to Ph.D.</p>
<p>"Well, to begin with, do you know what branch of EE you want to study? This is important in picking the school, even for just MS, esp. if you want to continue on to Ph.D." </p>
<p>My interest is in computer architecture or VLSI. I hear some programs have merged both fields, given that they are similiar.</p>
<p>I guess to answer your original question, you have really no chance to get into any Ph.D. program, as seen from addwit's posts of lower tier university admission stats. PhD admissions look into GPA, Previous research experience, strong letters of rec, GRE scores, personal statement, and other factors to judge if the candidate has strong potential to succeed in research. You can bet that most who apply to any Ph.D. program have a strong GPA, previous research experience, gre scores and previous research experience. So the PhD committees are really only picking from this pool of applicants. For example, if you have a low GPA, strong letters of rec and lots of previous research will help counter that low GPA. Right now, you're missing a strong GPA, previous research experience, and strong letters of rec. Even if you have strong GRE scores and a strong personal statement, it won't make up for the other 3. </p>
<p>So applying to a 2-year thesis Masters will help you get into a PhD program. Be careful not to apply to M.Eng programs, as these are terminal degrees for people who want to go into industry afterwards. Lots of Masters programs however, have GPA cutoffs (3.0 maybe?), but I'm not sure how rigid they are with their rules. Each school is different. Get good grades, good letter of recs, and do well in research and you'll get into a good PhD program. </p>
<p>If you want to be a professor at a major research university, then where you get your Ph.D. and where you do your post doc will matter. If you do come from a weaker program, then doing exceptionally well in research (e.g., numerous publications in top-tier journals, or whatever), will help you land a faculty position.</p>
<p>look at San Jose State, good reputation among local tech companies and not too hard to get into</p>
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Also, I'm presuming that these programs wouldn't let people in if the admissions do not think they're able to finish a PhD
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<p>There's a big difference between being capable of finishing a PhD and ACTUALLY finishing it. Like I said, the attrition rate of many PhD programs exceed 50%, meaning that over half of the admitted students will never get the PhD. Many students are unable to pass the quals. Many others simply lose interest in their own research, either because they run into a deadend in which they can't generate useful results, or just find something more interesting to do. Jerry Yang and David Filo got bored with their research on chip design software, and spent most of their time surfing the Internet instead, and so ended up founding what later became known as Yahoo. But the point is, a tremendous amount of uncertainty exists as to who will really complete the degree. There is a huge difference between having the capability of completing the PhD and actually completing it. MIT has absolutely brilliant PhD students, many of which won't finish. That shows that some of the most brilliant students around don't finish. </p>
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A PhD is needed in my case because I want to be a prof at a 'normal' engineering school. I mean, who'll want to be doing teaching and research at a community college? And this really is what I want to do. I don't know how else to phrase it.
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<p>And my response to this is, how do you know that this is what you really want to do? To give you an analogy, before you marry somebody, you have to date them first. You don't just marry somebody the moment you see them. Similarly, with a master's degree (or in rare cases with even just a bachelor's degree), you may be able to get a position at a no-name school or a community college and do that for a year or so. If it doesn't work out, then you can bail. At least now you know. But if you go for the PhD, you may spend many years completing the degree, and only then finding out that you don't actually like being a prof.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that even getting the PhD is not the end of the road by any means, if you want to be a prof. You basically have to spend maybe half-a-year or a year going on a 'roadshow' trying to get a prof position, which means presenting your research on job-talks. These can be some BRUTAL talks, as the hiring committees will basically be trying to find any weaknesses in your research. I have heard of talks where presenters couldn't even get through their first few slides because they were confronted with a host of questions that they couldn't answer. Many students don't even go directly on this roadshow after graduation, but decide to do a post-doc instead in order to strengthen their publication record, and that will take another few years. But even presuming you do get a tenure-track assistant prof position, the road doesn't end. Far from it. In fact, now, you confront the biggest challenge of all - getting tenure. Many assistant profs will not get tenure - at some schools, less than 25% of the assistant profs will get tenure. If you don't get tenured, you're effectively fired. You may be able to hang on as an adjunct lecturer or some other nontenured position, but basically, you won't be a 'real' prof at that school, and you certainly won't have job security. You can also try to get tenure at some other school, but again, that's another hit-or-miss proposition. The criteria for tenure generally consists of a strong record of publication, which means a tremendous amount of research. </p>
<p>So the point is, if you really don't like research, then frankly, you are almost certainly not going to make it as a prof at a 'normal' engineering school. You probably won't even be able to complete the PhD, and even if you do, you probably won't get a tenure-track position, and even if you do, you probably won't get tenure. All of these steps are contingent upon a strong record of research.</p>