Poor(er) kids go to Yale, rich(er) kids go to State U?

Paying for College
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<p>At a recent community event in which parents of college bound kids had time to socialize, an interesting trend was noted.</p>

<p>Kids from middle- and upper-middle income families were all going to public schools in our state (we are blessed with several to choose from depending on level of hs academic achievement). These kids didn't even bother applying to private schools after the parents figured out that their EFCs were $30K-$60K. And a few of them had Ivy league stats! Those few going out of state from this group of kids were all going to public universities in other states (UNC, USC, UGa, U Alabama etc) with all of them getting merit scholarships to bring the cost down to that of an in-state tuition.</p>

<p>The kids from the handful of truly wealthy families had kids going to truly expensive schools--no surprise there--such as Duke, Wake Forest, Washington and Lee, Boston College, Lehigh, etc.</p>

<p>But here's the surprise. The kids from the 10 or so low income families were also nearly all going to really expensive schools! This list included NYU (2 kids), Syracuse, Wake Forest, Yale, Williams, Bard, University of Richmond, and Villanova. Two were going to the local community college.</p>

<p>It was clear from the conversations that many in this last group were able to attend these expensive schools because of a combination of grants and work study with only a small $ in loans from most of these schools. These parents are apparently paying next to nothing out of pocket and several mentioned how happy they were to not have any loans to pay back.</p>

<p>One of the parents commented that things had surely changed since he was a kid --now higher earners send their kids to state schools and lower earners have a good shot at having their kids be able to attend a private school. </p>

<p>So is this how it is everywhere??</p>

<p>Rich families can still send their high-acheiving kids anywhere they are accepted.</p>

<p>Poor families are encouraged to have their their high-acheiving kids apply to any school they want, since need-based grants are a real possibility at even top-notch schools.
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But middle class families must tell their high-acheiving kids "forget applying to Duke, Yale, and NYU. You are more than qualified, but we make too much money so you can't go anywhere that costs more than our State U."</p>

<p>I feel like our hard work over the years (along with the economy depleting our college savings) has had the effect of severely limiting our kids' options! And I feel so bad telling my daughter (who also has Ivy league stats) that there is no way in hell that she could attend even if accepted.</p>

<p>Makes me want to scream to see that our neighbor (who admits to dropping out of college "to deal dope for a while" back in the 80s) and now drives a school bus 9 months a year (and who is sitting on his porch drinking beer when I get home every evening) is able to send his daughter off to Yale while I'm telling mine not to even consider applying there! I'm happy for my neighbor's daughter, who is an amazing girl, but unreasonably angry at the unfairness of it all! </p>

<p>Some one please tell me I am noT the only one to feel this way! (and yes, I know I should be grateful for what I have--I just need to get this off my chest!)</p>

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<p>While it is hard for those of us who are not-rich-not-poor, if our kids have ivy league stats they have numerous opportunities for merit at top notch schools. The ivies themselves have some pretty liberal policies that will help many middle income families, particularly those without a lot of assets. But plenty of other great schools offer merit (including some of those you indicated the lower income students are attending). Vanderbilt, Wake, Duke, W&L, WashU, etc have merit aid … true merit aid, without a component of need. The opportunities ARE there.</p>

<p>For the not-rich-not-poor who are not ivy or top school material, the opportunities are not as abundant. These are the kids who might not get more than a Stafford loan, but they wouldn’t be going to the top schools, anyway, so the point is moot.</p>

<p>No system is perfect, unfortunately.</p>

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<p>Don’t envy the ones going to NYU; they’re not getting the kind of aid the others are.</p>

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What the parent did back in the 80s has little impact on what the kid deserves, and being a bus driver isn’t that bad.</p>

<p>Anyway, I’m sure poor families would be willing to trade; you get the financial aid, they get the good lifestyle, job/home security, and lack of worry about food.</p>

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<p>You are right. I think it’s okay for Poor(er) kids go to Yale. But I think top schools should create a pool of applicants for merit awards, so it’s fair for everybody. They have a lot of money to do so :)</p>

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<p>Top schools DO have a pool of merit money. Just not ivies. As private schools, they have the right to use/not use their money as they see fit.</p>

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<p>This topic comes up every so often. I always say…be thankful for what YOU have and don’t compare yourself to others. Would you really want to live like our neighbor who earns far less than you do in salary? </p>

<p>We are in that bracket that paid almost full freight for our kids to attend expensive private schools. We also felt fortunate that we had the income to provide them with some wonderful experiences growing up. Putting it bluntly (and PLEASE I’m not meaning to offend anyone here), I was happy to not be considered low income…and if that meant not qualifying for college need based aid…so be it.</p>

<p>I would not have traded our lives as upper middle class folks for a lower income. Sorry…not what we would have chosen.</p>

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<p>We’ve been in both places. Not ultra high income, but pretty comfortable. When my son started college we didn’t even think to apply for financial aid as we didn’t think we would be eligible. Then a layoff happened, followed by some bad health problems - and a few years later when my daughter started college we found ourselves at the other end of the scale. Now we qualify for Pell. We also struggle somewhat because of my husbands medical bills and high prescriptions. I much preferred being in the comfortable financial position than the qualifying for pell position.</p>

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<p>one of the greatest questions that no one seems to answer is what is middle class?</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.ehow.com/m/about_5212740_average-middle-class-salary-range_.html[/url]”>www.ehow.com/m/about_5212740_average-middle-class-salary-range_.html</a></p>

<p>Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using CC App</p>

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<p>I generalized about the income tiers, of course. But folks in this community know each other pretty well as far as what jobs we do and who our employers are.</p>

<p>But after a few glasses of wine, people get pretty loose-lipped about stating that they never saved anything for their kids college, or that they aren’t paying much next year, etc.</p>

<p>So I’m wondering about the future…has it gotten to a point ivies and other very selective private colleges will be populated by a strictly dichotamous population of kids? (High income and low income only?) The kids from the middle ground will all be someplace else… Seems like something that society has not yet experienced.</p>

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<p>They can’t be too poor if they’re drinking wine…</p>

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<p>It can be the case in many communities. But before you get it in your head that it is this way, take a look at the stats. Look at the financial aid %s and average dollar amounts in grants given at those schools. Also look at the number of Pell recipients. So, no, we are not there yet. The time might come, however, for a number of reasons.</p>

<p>A lot of families that are still considered well to do are truly tapped out with the way the economy and job situation has been. Credit has tightened up and the housing market is in a slump. So families that would tighten the belt or down size for the private college experience are already there, and any further financial cuts will come out of some meat and bone rather than fat. That’s kinda where we are. 10 years ago, things were looking rosy enough that we could take a flyer on some loans and cut back to afford a private school. Now we’re stuck with some of our expenses due to the market. Can’t really sell the house, can’t change jobs, can’t cut back much. </p>

<p>Also our generation may not be as willing to cut back as much as earlier ones. Some of us are spoiled and don’t want to give up some of our lifestyle things that we have earned over the years for 4 years of private college. I can’t really argue much about that one. I am not one to applaud the 50 year old mom going out to scrub floors and dad getting that second job and the family scrimping on things that affect their health so that the bright young thing in the family can go ivy. </p>

<p>It’s also because of the composition of your neighborhood. In my county, the schools where the lowest incomes are reported do not even have most of their kids going to college. They are more concerned about drop out rates than the numbers going to college. Those parents who are considered “low income” but are living in the "elite’ neighborhoods are often not really that low on the income scale to be able to afford living there. Many of them are families who put the highest premium on education so that their kids are going to have a good chance of doing well in school and the family aggressively seeks the better school district as part of their child raising strategies. My son is friends with such a family who is renting and sharing a house in one of the top school districts in the country. They sent their kids to such a school and they were top student there. One is now at Harvard, the other at Yale, and yes, they are both on financial aid. If you can get into those schools, the aid is generous and the parameters are wider than at most schools. The one young man’s aid offers from other schools were half of what he is getting from Harvard .</p>

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<p>This kind of reminds me of another thread on CC about college being a right:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/1183692-should-college-right.html?highlight=college+right[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/1183692-should-college-right.html?highlight=college+right&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>My guess is that most students at Yale are upper-middle-class.</p>

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<p>"It’s also because of the composition of your neighborhood. In my county, the schools where the lowest incomes are reported do not even have most of their kids going to college. They are more concerned about drop out rates than the numbers going to college. "</p>

<p>Same here. I believe there is a fifty percent or less graduation rate at some of our high schools. “Middles class kids” are going to community college, upper middle class to CSU’s, and “upper class” to UC’s, and some privates. There might be a handful in the county taht go to “elites”.</p>

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<p>Unless it’s three-buck Chuck from Trader Joe’s.</p>

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<p>Yes, bygawd, I’ve earned it, and it’s mine, and the h*** with my kids and their generation. Just because my mommy and daddy pampered and spoiled me doesn’t mean my kids should expect the same thing.</p>

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<p>*They can’t be too poor if they’re drinking wine… *</p>

<p>Are you kidding? </p>

<p>Do you know that poor people buy cigarettes??? Some are spending $50 -100+ per week on cigarettes - especially if more than one adult in the household smokes. I don’t get it, but it happens…a lot.</p>

<p>Don’t envy the ones going to NYU; they’re not getting the kind of aid the others are.</p>

<p>That’s likely true. Every year we see poor kids post that their poor families signed Plus loans or private loans for their first year at NYU and can’t do it for the later years. Ugh.</p>

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<p>*I am not one to applaud the 50 year old mom going out to scrub floors and dad getting that second job and the family scrimping on things that affect their health so that the bright young thing in the family can go ivy. *</p>

<p>Well, I agree that it’s not a great idea to do those things just to send Susie or Johnny to an unnecessary and pricey ivy/elite.</p>

<p>But…I do applaud the parent who takes on a second job or whatever to bring in extra cash for Susie/Johnny’s college costs at a reasonably priced school.</p>

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<p>Unlike what I expect is the case with the average poster on CC, I live in a poor community. I know people on food stamps. I know people who have been foreclosed, not in many cases because they used their houses as ATMs but because when the bottom drops out of the economy, there’s not much safety net to catch those already at the bottom. And I know people who are just getting by where the mother and/of father DOES take a second job so that their kids can go to college. These kids are first-generation college students, and they’re not going to Harvard or Yale. They’re going to Northern/Eastern/Western Illinois University, often after two years at our local CC - and the kids are spending 20 hours a week waiting tables, or working at Subway, or working out in the miserable July weather detasseling corn, to make it possible for them to get their degrees, often taking 5 or 6 years to get there. And a surprising percentage of them graduate and get jobs far beyond anything their parents could ever have aspired to - yes, even in this economy, there are jobs available for those willing to look and be flexible. I admire these people enormously - the moms and dads who are willing to make sacrifices, and the kids who are willing to do what it requires to get their degrees. To be frank, I admire them a whole lot more than I do the wealthy suburbanite parents whose kids come on these boards and say that their parents are making $150,000 a year but can’t contribute much of anything to their college costs. Yes, folks, you earned it, you’re entitled to it, you’re under no obligation to pay for your kids’ education - but what the h*** did you have kids for, then?</p>