<p>Maybe I’ve missed it, but I’m not seeing the actual field in which you want to get a graduate degree. Many top schools don’t offer terminal master’s degrees in pure science fields, just PhDs – MIT and Caltech, for example, don’t offer terminal master’s degrees in biology. Every admit to the program is fully funded, but only for the PhD degree.</p>
<p>Applied physics is the one I am most interested in currently.</p>
<p>I’m in the Applied Physics & Materials Science department here at Caltech, and, as far as I’m aware, they don’t admit MS only students. Actually, my whole time here (a number of years now teaching at least one class for the first year grads) I’ve only met one student that was a MS student, and she was here full time on her company’s dime. After a year she quit her company and wound up becoming a full time PhD student.</p>
<p>Yeah. What I’ve seen from my research into Berkeley grad programs is that the majority of them seem to be PhDs, or start as MA/MS students and change over to PhDs. Thanks for that information!</p>
<p>Although it could also vary by department, but I just found this statistic:</p>
<p>“Degrees granted in 2010-11: Bachelor’s, 7,466; Master’s and professional degrees, 2,480; Doctoral, 905”</p>
<p>Far more Master’s than Doctoral degrees. The Applied Technology and Science Department that I am interested in however, seems to be mostly PhD based, though they do offer customizable MS’s.</p>
<p>Is that for the entire school? I don’t know how much weight I’d put on there being that many more “Master’s and professional degrees” than Doctoral degrees as evidence that you can get just a MS. Keep in mind the number of MS/equivalent could be skewed by undergrads sticking around for an extra year, things like MBAs, and self-funded humanities MS students that don’t have the money to stick around for the PhD.</p>
<p>That’s true. I couldn’t find the statistics for specific departments, but I know that certain departments put out more Masters than others and the other departments put out more PhDs.</p>
<p>A few notes from a late-comer:</p>
<p>Outcomes don’t always match incomes. For example, many “PhD-only” departments award masters degrees to students who come in for the PhD but either quit or fail out. Some people use this to their advantage by applying as PhD students and then quitting once they have completed the masters requirements, but this is usually considered unethical and risky.</p>
<p>Be realistic about where you are coming from. You can improve your undergrad GPA by taking grad-level courses at a quality program as a non-degree student, but until you have another completed degree your undergrad GPA will still be considered. If you want to do a top-tier program, you are realistically going to need to do an intermediate-level masters FIRST, absolutely ace it, and then apply to top-tier departments for a PhD. Going from where you are to even a decent-quality PhD program is just not realistic.</p>
<p>Not all coursework or research is the same. Credits in education classes will not help you get into a physics program, and research opportunities meant for teachers will probably not help you much in getting admissions for a full-time research degree - there is going to be an assumption of relatively low rigor and little independent work. Get research experience where you can, but the best experience will be somewhere they don’t know you are a teacher.</p>
<p>Minimum is not competitive. If a program lists a 3.00 minimum GPA then the actual admits probably average 3.2-3.3, and any 3.00 admits probably have a ton of other factors in their favor, like actual publications or recommendations from great researchers.</p>
<p>Grad admissions have nothing to do with fair or meeting a certain threshold. Assuming you meet all the actual requirements (not all of which will be publicly released) a professor still has to actually select you to be THEIR student, and they can and will use whatever criteria they want. Generally speaking, they are trying to fulfill THEIR needs, not yours - they want strong researchers who are going to co-author papers, expand on their research, and eventually reference them in Nobel acceptance speeches. They don’t want to spend a lab slot on someone who is going to teach high school.</p>
<p>So, in short: Start looking for quality nearby schools that will let you take grad-level physics courses as a nondegree student. Ace them all. Make connections with the instructors and try and volunteer as a research assistant in one of their labs. Publish if you can - first author, fifth author, just try to get in a peer-reviewed physics journal. When you have a year or two under your belt, apply to some masters programs as a physicist not a teacher - top-5 is not realistic, hopefully you can swing top-20 or even top-10. Do well in THAT program and a top-5 program might take you.</p>
<p>I’ve mulled about doing an intermediate Master’s. The problem is, I have no idea what to do it in, or where. Or technically if I even would want to make it an intermediate. (Meaning, I’d just go for the Master’s where I can get it, and by that time I might lose all desire to go to a top 5 school, even if I did ace it.)</p>
<p>Like I said, I probably don’t want a PhD, so doing an intermediate Masters to get another Masters, even if its at a top 5 school kind of seems like overkill. </p>
<p>I would LOVE to get published, and I will be doing all I can to get research experience. I’m hoping that I can do one or two stints as a teacher researcher this year, and use that experience next year, to make me a likely candidate for a lab volunteer or intern at a place not related to teaching.</p>
<p>I also plan to read at least one article from a well-known Physics journal a week to get me intimate with the field but the time two years roll around, and I’ve been reading up books on grant-writing. I figure, if I have documented experience in grant writing, many researchers will want me because writing grant proposals are long, painful, and arduous processes, and if I get good at it, I’ll be able to get them funding for their research projects. </p>
<p>I’m also always actively trying to learn difficult technological skills such as programming and useful applications so I’d be useful in those respects as well.</p>
<p>When you read articles, you shouldn’t just randomly read articles from across the field - that will give you a very shallow base. You should find a particular specialty of physics that you are interested in, and focus on reading as much as you can about that specific area. As a graduate student, you will not be studying “physics” in general, you will be studying particle physics, molecular physics, astrophysics, laser physics, etc.</p>
<p>Graduate studies are highly specialized and depth of knowledge is valued more highly than breadth.</p>
<p><a href=“Meaning,%20I’d%20just%20go%20for%20the%20Master’s%20where%20I%20can%20get%20it,%20and%20by%20that%20time%20I%20might%20lose%20all%20desire%20to%20go%20to%20a%20top%205%20school,%20even%20if%20I%20did%20ace%20it.”>quote</a>
[/quote]
Burnout is a problem for everyone. A great many people leave PhD programs mid way for the same reason.</p>
<p>
If you have no interest in PhD then you really have no options for top programs. Most won’t accept masters students anyways, and the ones that do will have too many better candidates for it to be worth your time and money applying. Plus, schools will not usually award duplicate degrees, so if you have a masters in physics already then they will not award you a second one anyway. You would have to do one in chemistry, then other in physics (or some similar combination).</p>
<p>@polarscribe: I think I have an idea on a specific area I want to focus on.</p>
<p>@cosmicfish: Are there top programs for Masters students? If not, I may just get a Masters in the field I am interested right now, at a non-top school. If I really like it, I may continue as a PhD at that school, or use the references and experience I got from that school to pursue a similar field for my PhD at a school more to my preference.</p>
<p>
Yes, but it depends on what you mean. If you can make a list of top programs by a given set of criteria you can certainly create a sublist containing onlt those schools that offer masters degrees. Not being a physicist, I can’t make this list for you. Make sure that when you do so you also consider your specialities of interest - it does you no good to get a degree from a top program if it only sets you up for an education and career in that branch of physics you DON’T really like!</p>
<p>To the OP, I just want to echo some of the things other people said. They’re trying to give you realistic and constructive advice, so I’d just like to rephrase it.</p>
<p>What polarscribe and others were trying to communicate is how incredibly selective the three programs you mentioned are. To give you perspective, a 3.5 GPA typically makes an applicant competitive, but by no means an outstanding, or even strong, applicant. Applicants who are admitted with a lower GPAs (3.2 or 3.3 might even be considered low at these schools), usually compensate with excellent research experience and letters of recommendation to corroborate it from a professor or industry scientist. It is not uncommon to see applicants with 4+ years of research in top labs. In fact, the main part of graduate interviews are to talk about your research, so you need something to share. So, when you mention “getting” research experience, it may not be so simple to make yourself stand out. This is not to say that you’ve done anything wrong or failed in any way, but that is just the nature of applying to 3 of the top 5 or so graduate programs in world. In addition, what no one else has mentioned is GRE scores. You will likely need to devote a significant amount of time to studying for the GRE, and, while your score is by no means a make or break component of your application, applicants with scores in the 99th percentile are a dime a dozen at Berkeley/MIT/CalTech. What other commenters were concluding from all of this information is that, while your GPA may meet the minimum requirement at these schools, the absence of a compensating aspect that would stand out as excellent hurts your chances. This is especially concerning, since these schools have the luxury of rejecting even the applicants with gaudy resumes and statistics. </p>
<p>Also, as others have mentioned, you seem to have mentioned those three schools rather arbitrarily. I know those names sound nice because of the presige associated with them, but the name of the school actually matters very little in comparison to who your professor is and the specific laboratory that you’re working. You need to find a professor whose research interests align with yours. For all you know, those schools may not even a have a lab for what you wish to study (unlikely due to their vast resources, but the point stands). </p>
<p>Another concerning point of what you’ve mentioned so far, is your perception of what graduate studies are. Your career choice and level of applicant lends itself best to a masters program, yet you’ve suggested that you want to research. A Master’s program is essentially the PhD program without the dissertation. So, just the coursework and no research. There is undoubtedly variation in different programs that may involve lab rotations or other forms of research, but by and large, the master’s program ends after ~2 years of coursework with some type of culminating exam, whereas the PhD students take their Qualifying Exams and reach candidacy and begin/continue their research. If you are looking for more research experience, I suggest, as others have, that you begin taking graduate level classes so that you can apply competitively for internships or REUs that will provide research experience in a lab setting. </p>
<p>Realistically, your options are to apply for a master’s/phd program at a CSU or other private programs that have higher acceptance rates, or take the more challenging route of acing graduate classes, all but acing the GRE, and landing some serious internships to apply competitively to your dream schools. This may be several years away and you may wind up at a CSU or other UC anyway. </p>
<p>Sorry for the lengthy response, but I admire your perseverance and wanted you to have all of the information while being realistic to make the best decision.</p>
<p>Best,
Elbow</p>