<p>That’s why there is an “and” in my sentence. I should have also added "report it on FAFSA and other financial aid forms: as well to be more specific, but I figured since this is all about college, it would be understood.</p>
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<p>Obviously transfers are done, but not all transfers are created equally. Certain transfers may be illegal and/or unethical. And whether or not the transfer is for the benefit of the student is not the deciding criteria. A transfer that is contrary to law or IRS regulations is illegal. A transfer that seeks to subvert financial aid policies that are put in place to as fairly as possible allocate scarce financial aid dollars first to those who need them most is unethical.</p>
<p>Can I make a $20k contribution from my savings account to my Roth IRA this year, in order to decrease my FAFSA reportable assets to benefit my college student child? No, that would be against IRS regulations.</p>
<p>I get the feeling that many people fail to distinguish UGMA/UTMA assets owned by a child from assets owned by the child’s parents. They are two different post of money that should not be mixed unless a bona fide gift is being made or a legitimate expense for the benefit of the child has been incurred. If before a parent transfers UGMA/UTMA assets into their name they can affirmatively answer the question “would I be doing this if it didn’t provide a benefit for financial aid purposes?” then that’s one hurdle cleared. If the answer is “no,” an ethics warning light should start flashing.</p>
<p>Let’s take an example, and if you feel a line was crossed, please tell me where the line is. A high school sophomore and his mother each receive $500k in tax free life insurance proceeds when the father/husband dies. Neither has any earned income as the father was the sole bread winner. For the foreseeable future the mother plans to pay rent and other living expenses from her share of the life insurance proceeds. There are no other assets except for a car, personal possessions, small savings and checking accounts and an IRA that the father owned and the mother was the only beneficiary; she converted it to her own IRA. The student’s life insurance proceeds were placed in a UGMA/UTMA account. In order to reduce assets in preparation for filing the FAFSA in the student’s second semester senior year, both student and mother transfer their life insurance proceeds to the student’s maternal grandmother, who has agreed to pay living expenses for both student and mother from the assets transferred by the mother, and college expenses for the student that are not covered by financial aid from the assets transferred by the student. After filing the FAFSA, the student’s EFC is determined to be $0 and the student is eligible for the maximum Pell grant. The student is accepted at and attends a private college that guarantees to meet full need, and the student receives an institutional grant that covers full tuition and room and board, after government grants are counted.</p>
<p>Is this legal? Ethical? The student could have easily paid full price for the college from his own assets, but he wanted to save those assets for future expenses (grad school, a house, etc.) and use financial aid dollars for undergraduate expenses.</p>
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<p>I agree, that’s not incredibly unusual, and neither is it unethical as long as the giving was done in the spirit of a bona fide gift with no strings attached. One or several thousand dollars is not a real issue, and wouldn’t make that much difference anyway in calculating financial aid using the FAFSA. I was responding to the suggestion that a student with large assets could “gift” $14k a year to a parent without gift tax consequences.</p>
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<p>cpt, I know that we’ve discussed this before, and while I respect your opinion, I still disagree with it. If the money would not have been turned over to the parent but for the more favorable FAFSA treatment, than no, it’s not legitimate.</p>
<p>There is a stated intent that exists in a lot of tax dealings. Not just for fin aid purposes. For instance, in my state, as in many states, we are supposed to declare all purchases made OOS and pay state sales tax on them if shipped to the home. I don’t know ANYONE who does this other than for things like cars and boats where there is a mechanism that pretty much makes you do so. The state knows this The accountants all know this. The tax attorneys all know this. But it’s not enforced at the consumer level But, if I go into an OOS store and buy something and ask to have it shipped to my place, if I say outright that it’s to avoid the state tax, that can be an issue directly addressed by tax code. </p>
<p>The IRS and like government agencies do not like outright statements that things are done deliberately to avoid taxes. People who separate on Dec 30 and get back together, and do this just so they can take advantage of being unmarried for federal tax purposes are not going to get away with this as a regular practice, for instance. </p>
<p>But absolutely, a student holding that kind of money can turn it over to his parent. School fin aid offices will tell you outright when you ask for advice, and I’ve asked several.</p>
<p>Yes, you can turn all of your assets over to your grandparents and look penniless and get the financial aid. There are drawbacks to doing this, in that if they die or make off with your money, you have that risk. You can’t go around announcing you are doing this with the intent to cheat the system, because that is not permitted, but the deed you certainly can do. One of the conundrums of our times.</p>
<p>A very good friend of mine lived off of her home equity for 8 years while her kids got PELL, state low income grants, SEOG, Perkins, Workstudy and university grants because she had a big fat zero FAFSA EFC. Her ex made over a half million a year each year during that time. By keeping her at a zero EFC, they got a ton of money from the system. She took the risk of him never making good on the deal that was cut, but he did. he also paid back all of the loans the kids took. Yes, this is done, and more often then one would think. Just got a card from someone I know about her granddaughter in some program----it’s only for PELL eligible students at that school!?! Makes no sense to me. They go to Ecuador and do all sorts of things. Family is not hurting. Turns out that they made themselves eligible for lots of fin aid When you start looking, you see a lot. I know personally of two families around here who have made out big time with these loopholes with the intent to do so. </p>
<p>But as for transfer of funds between parent and child when there is that constant flow going on any ways, no, I don’t think it’s an issue at all. In some family structures, the kid would turn over all earnings to Papa and he then controlled the flow as to where they went and how they were stashed. Why a family like that should get favorable treatment of assets over one that lets their kids keep the money the earn and try to get them a bit more independent makes no sense, so to store it in a way that is palatable to all is the solution here. </p>
<p>MiddKid86, I imagine that you feel that the many strategies used by older folks to protect assets for the family while still qualifying for Medicaid assistance with long-term care costs are wrong, also?
How about legal strategies to reduce taxes? Is there a moral difference between paying less (taxes) and getting more (governmental aid)? Is it significant in your analysis of “legitimacy” whether assets are available to pay for something, but just not used, vs. not being available? </p>
<p>Until the “kiddie tax” (and maybe still), it was common for parents to shift income to their kids to reduce taxes. Theoretically, the money in a kid’s account (might not be an UTMA account, which raises the different fiduciary issues you mention); my 17-yr-old son has his own checking and savings accounts) might be money shifted there by the parents to avoid taxes. Would be transferring that (back) into the parents’ name be wrong? How about if my son were to pay me for all the things I bought him, that are not within my basic duty of support?</p>
<p>In our case, my son had a small amount of savings, and I just told him that for the last few months before filing the FAFSA, he would be buying all of his own stuff, clothing, snacks, books, etc. Was that wrong? What if he had had more, and I’d suggested that he buy a new car? What if he’d given me the car when he left for college, less than a year later, not being able to take it with him?</p>
<p>Shades of grey? Is intent all that matters? Intent is very difficult to prove, so who bears the burden of proof - the student, or the government? </p>
<p>^^^
So many questions. I’m betting there are countless strategies used to shelter family assets while qualifying for MediCaid and also to reduce taxes. Some are legitimate, some are not, and some fall in between. Into which category a particular strategy fits will in many instances depend on who you ask. I’m not familiar with MediCaid rules, so I won’t go there. And the tax reduction strategies I use are so basic and well known that they don’t raise any eyebrows, bother my conscience or call my integrity into question.</p>
<p>But this discussion is about transferring student assets to others (I’ve focused on UGMA/UTMA assets) in order to get a more favorable financial aid determination. What I’ve said is that if the transfer would not have been done if it had not resulted in a financial aid benefit to the student, there’s likely been an ethical lapse. There may be exceptions to this, and if there are I’m sure the smart folks here on CC will point them out.</p>
<p>You said earlier in this thread that you assumed such a transfer would be a bona fide gift, which is perfectly fine, as long as it really is. No strings attached; the person making the gift gives up complete dominion and control, and the person receiving the gift is under no obligation (legal, moral or otherwise) to use the gift in any particular manner or for any particular purpose.</p>
<p>Basically, for Medicaid, in order to have the government pay, for say a nursing home, which would take up a lot an elderly person’s assets, since around here the cost can be well over $100K a year, (makes even the most pricey college look like a bargain), a family of say a multimillionaire will have the inheritance distributed early so that Medicaid pays instead. There is a 5 year look back, so you take away the money when things start looking not so promising and grit your teeth and bear for that time period, stick them in the home in exchange for the social security check which the home gets and the heirs get their millions. Done all of the time.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that funds between parent and child are fluid anyways. FAFSA and other financial aid formulas are not recognizing this with the asset formula. IMO, the problem is the hit those take who don’t know to make the transfer, not those who do. A "stupid’ tax is what my not so tactful kids would call it, and I agree but it’s the feds and the schools that that are stupid for penalizing that way, not those caught in paying.</p>
<p>I don’t kow what the specific rules are, but I think it is a no strings attached give away. You aren’t permitted to make it a loan, for example, which would still make it an asset. So to give assets away like that, does have a risk. </p>
<p>The other thing that often comes up is when grandma is offering to pay for college. So you either have her lend the money or have her give it to a parent so it doesn’t show up on the fin aid forms. Though I think PROFILE does out and out ask about relatives and other sources of payment of college. My husband was one whose family made out that way, as he had a mother with no income or assets, so to speak and well to do grandparents who would have paid his way through college. He got full aid+ based on his mother’s financials. All legit. Grandparents assets are not included in the fin statements. </p>
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<p>At least with UGMA/UTMA assets, this should definitely not be the case. My guess is that in most situations where there is a UGMA/UTMA account, a parent is the custodian and has control (not ownership - very important) and therefore is obligated to act as a fiduciary. This would in most cases preclude the fiduciary from making a gift of the child’s assets to him or herself (or to the other parent or anyone else for that matter), as the assets can legally only be used for purposes that solely benefit the child.</p>
<p>Good info. here on UGMA/UTMA accounts and their impact on financial aid:</p>
<p><a href=“UGMA & UTMA Custodial Accounts - Finaid”>Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid;
<p>Even with UGMA/UTMA plans. A parent can just spend the money as long as it’s for the benefit of the child, and there are alot of things most parents do for the benefit of a child An accountant can make sure you don’t go afoul of any lines drawn for that, but yes, you can spend those down too. Just don’t say it’s to get more financial aid The one person I knew who did it paid child support and private school tuition bills out of it. Passed muster because my friend sued her ex for doing that and lost.</p>
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<p>Correct, as long as the UGMA/UTMA assets aren’t spent by the custodian for things that are parental obligations or that benefit the custodian. This can admittedly get fuzzy at times. Does sending junior away to camp for two weeks (thereby getting him out of the house) using his UGMA/UTMA money benefit the parent/custodian? Quite possibly, but it seems obvious that the child gets the primary benefit.</p>