Positive and Negative: Univ. of Alabama Honors College

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
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Hello. My daughter is applying to a variety of colleges, but is a National Merit Semifinalist (waiting to see about Finalist) and is considering the University of Alabama due to its strong scholarship opportunities, among other things.

In this regard, I am looking for input on the Honors College there. I’ve heard there are different honors classes offered and I’d like to hear any experiences parents/students have had with this program. Is it just additional work or requirements? Are classes taught “differently” which could be a negative as well as a positive? What are the actual benefits in terms of housing, course selection, etc? Has anyone left the honors college for the regular program?

My daughter is a good student with strong stats, but is not a “grinder” looking for extra work for the purpose of doing extra work or status. She will likely be a business major with a science-related minor. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

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My son goes and is Honors. Like a third of the school is - it’s the biggest in the country.

It’s the cost of entry for two things.

Living in Ridgecrest, where you get your own room - you share 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. And you register early. It’s a quieter dorm which many want vs the schools perceived rep.

I think at all schools Honors is what you make of it. Some have classes that are harder or more in depth. Or just smaller which gives you access to profs. They have special programs within that sound like aren’t for your kid - Randall Research, Blount, and MCCullough Medical Scholars.

My son doesn’t like the program because there’s so many humanities classes required. But he’s stayed in for the earlier registration.

He will formally withdraw next semester (his last) and says that’s common, especially in engineering.

I see the emails from honors - lots of cool sounding classes, speakers, research opportunities and more.

It’s added value if you want it to be. Not everyone does.

But you’re almost forced to be In it at Bama due to you get earlier access to class registration.

When you’re in, you’re not forced to partake.

My son’s gf is minoring In English and enjoys the classes.

As a b school major, she’ll have time to participate as she wishes.

I can’t give you the full extent but I think it’s safe to say you need to join and then you can try and see what you like.

I would recommend Honors Outdoor Action b4 school starts. Seems a great way to meet some kids. Actually for a high stats kid getting the unreal deal, without Honors, your child might not appreciate the student body. Bama has some brilliant kids - as they buy kids in. But it goes to the opposite level too. So I would recommend trying - and go from there.

If she’s high stats, she’ll be able to handle the rigor - which in Honors doesn’t necessarily mean more. But it does mean interesting topics, higher rated profs, and hopefully more serious students.

As an aside - different school - but my daughter takes full advantage. And it’s wonderful. Studying interesting topics and has relationships with profs that are supportive and interested in her. And that’s why so much of the experience depends on the kid. But for early course selection and Ridgecrest alone it’s worth it.

Best of luck

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You confirmed my suspicions on the matter. Putting her with the Honors kids in class and the dorms, if possible, to prevent too many temptations and other issues. I just wanted to make sure there were no downsides I was unaware of. She is applying to a lot of competitive colleges, but I really like and appreciate that Alabama is so generous with these scholarships. She also has 9 APs and it’s great that they will accept them all as well. It would give some breathing room to try different courses. Lots of positives. Thanks for the input!

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My son had 10-11 APs, a 34 act and a 4.7 or whatever. These kids are a dime a dozen there. But so are the non competitive.

Ridgecrest is the nicest dorm and enrolling early isn’t really early when everyone is. See the link below and you’ll see how widespread Honors is there vs others.

Accepting credits and having them be useful are two different things. My son started as a sophomore credit wise but engineering has its flow and it’s four years regardless. At my daughters school, only 1/3 of AP mattered. Other classes got duplicative credits but it is what it is. You have 5 years tuition. Sue can start law school :slight_smile:

But yes it’s good their work will pay off.

My son chose Bama over Purdue for engineering specifically for the dorm (was desperate not to share a room). One of his roomies was a NMF from Scottsdale. My son didn’t love Ridgecrest (too quiet he said) but that beats the party dorms where he would complain about the noise. But choosing Bama over an elite school is very common.

Your daughter will be fine as long as she stays in control (not giving too much into temptation) - but that’s everywhere. And mom / dad can stress out less about retirement or other things.

And I know should your daughter grow into wanting rigor or engagement, whether research, clubs, class or otherwise, it’s there of you want it. And kids are doing well intern wise - especially Manderson (b school) which is well thought of. In fact the career center was recently named best in the sec for internships. Not sure how they determine that but…

Best of luck wherever your student ends up. But just know if she ends up at Bama and Honors isn’t for her, they don’t kick you out. I don’t think my kid has taken more than 1-2 classes in the last few years. It’s simply a means to enrolling early for him so she’ll have that option as well.

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Is the Ridgecrest dorm guaranteed if you get into honors? Or do you have to pay the enrollment and housing deposit early?

My son is also considering the NM deal - he doesn’t have NMSF, but has the NM Recognition program award (4 years tuition and one year housing).

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That blows my mind. I understand UA chases and woos high-stats OOS students to offset the negative image created by what would otherwise be an incredibly low-academic-stats enrollment for a state flagship. But creating an environment where 1/3 of the student body is considered “honors college” kind of goes against the grain of what I would have considered to be an Honors College.

My general opinion would be a small percentage of students maybe ranking in the top 5-10% of incoming freshmen who were offered admission to HC, with the associated perks and living in one HC dorm. It blows my mind that UA enrolls 1/3 of its students in its honors college. I can’t stop saying that because I can’t stop thinking it. I’m glad it’s working for the U and the students.

It reminds me of Lake Wobegone, where “everyone is above average.”

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The honors college at UA requires a GPA of 3.5+ and ACT score of 30. According to ACT a “30” puts a student in the top 90th percentile nationally ( which is definitely above average). The fact that UA offers extremely generous scholarship packages, beautiful campus, and gives a lot of credit for AP/transfer classes is probably the reason there are so many honors students. Add to that programs that not only want to attract top students but are interested in not “weeding them out” (engineering) you have an encouraging school culture.
All things to consider when choosing a school for the next four years.
I will add that one of my kids graduated from UA and was heavily recruited in her field, she was able to maintain excellent grades and one of the reasons is the supportive atmosphere…

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econPop - i like your posts and generally agree with most everything you say.

but i will add to this what my kiddo is thinking. she’s deciding between bama and two midwest state flagships.

she will only apply to honors at bama; not at the others. they seemed so . . . dreary almost.

The bama program seems vibrant, full of students and energy. I think the smaller class size as a freshman is what intrigues her the most. The requirements for joining each of the honors programs are about the same; bama’s getting the kids to join; the other’s aren’t. So they are doing something right . …

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I think this should be pinned. My kid goes to UNC and the goal of the freshman STEM classes is to weed out as many students as possible. Because of covid and a myriad of other reasons, many kids are not doing well in college. So, it is very refreshing to know that the environment is supportive.

Every school does that. Some have a better brand to sell. So, it is easier. For many disciplines, what you know and can do is more important than who you know and where you went to school. This is especially true of engineering. So, for us, it is very important that my kid ends up in a place where he will be supported and nurtured versus weeded out. Not that he is an awful student or anything but definitely not a rockstar.

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Agreed but if you open the links of honors colleges I put two above, ASU is 2nd largest. Granted it’s a bigger school but still a ton of kids. And their college is considered elite.

I think what’s really cool and many colleges may have - hopefully most - is the small programs like Randall Research or Blount at Bama or the two my daughter is in with at her school with 10-15 kids - those are great opportunities.

It does seem like schools use Honors to try and siphon off some elite kids.

I think it’s silly that (and only speaking of Bama) one doesn’t have to progress to stay in. I don’t know what % that start drop out late but according to my son it’s relatively high.

He simply kept his status (I think a required gpa) for early class registration.

I have zero doubt that the program has fine offerings etc. but in his case he chose not to take advantage and apparently that can be without penalty.

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Not sure my kid is nurtured but again everyone is different. My son doesn’t seek it. My daughter at her school jumps head in. I’m guessing Bama isn’t as nurturing but if you want it you can get it. It seems bureaucratic but a well run bureaucracy. Very efficient.

I will say my son started applying for jobs this semester. Has interviewed with I think 14 companies and has advanced at all . Got his first offer yesterday - which then causes the - oh crap but how do I get the others to move - issue.

So the ‘brand’ hasn’t hurt.

Find the right school - that means many different things to many different kids. Some need that feeling of community. Others don’t.

Good luck to all.

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A concern I have is that I see a lot of videos and input from students that are really high achieving and then get chewed up in the really top schools with harsh curves and weed out classes, at the time they are getting adjusted to living on their own.

My daughter is a 1530 SAT (790M/740R), 3.95/4.0 National Merit SF, but I want her to start college successfully/confidently her first year, rather than being thrown into the wood chipper in classes designed to weed you out and crush your soul! It sounds like Alabama works to alleviate this issue to the extent it can.

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My girl dropped out of the honors track because she wanted to take more elective engineering courses. Once she was a junior she knew the direction she wanted to go and opted for the master level engineering classes instead of finishing the honors curriculum. And just to be clear she did not feel like the classes were nurturing but fair. Her brother went to a T-15 school for the same major. But as he mentioned some classes really took a piece of his soul. The profs individually set the grading for their classes and in many classes would only give out 10 A’s or 5% etc. He got a 93 in one of his freshman classes but got a B because or the grading system… which was discouraging.

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One last thing. Having great grades coming out of undergrad is super important for post graduate work. She has several friends that are getting their Phd’s at some very prestigious institutions… and few Honors college friends that have gone onto law school at top IVY.

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Just my take… I have not seen any surprises (yet) in the kids that get “chewed up” (however you define it) at a “really top school”. And in my observation- it’s not about the kid, it’s about the parents and the family and how much “support” (editing papers, insisting that studying for a test is more important than Grandma’s 80th birthday party, etc.) they have been providing.

Those are the kids who crash and burn. In many cases, the parents brag that the kid has never made a bed, done a load of laundry, packed a lunch. So sure- kid has great grades- because the family business for the last many years has been ensuring that the kid has great grades. Kid whiffs a test? Mom on the phone to complain to the principal asking for a do-over. Kid leaves lunch on the counter? Dad leaves work- drives half an hour in traffic- to bring lunch.

If your kid has reasonable coping skills, I don’t think you need to fear that college is going to chew her up. If she’s developed coping skills- I don’t think you need to worry.

I have a friend who drives to Costco every other week, then drives an hour to her kids dorm to drop off granola bars and other snacks “so she can focus on her studies”. How long does it take to buy a snack when you are hungry- five minutes? On a college campus surrounded by food trucks, vending machines, cafeterias, coffee houses, convenience stores?

If your D gets in- then they know she can handle the workload!

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I don’t think you can get away from weeding out when it comes to Engineering.

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I think there are two ways to do engineering. You can take the route of everyone has a chance, in which event there will be weed out classes. Or can you take the route that only certain qualified candidates can do the work. In that case, there may not be weed out classes (or there may be a first-year engineering program that is a weed out or self-selection). Alabama (like some other schools) chooses the first option. I don’t think that the is a “right” way. I do think the first option is more egalitarian in that it accepts that certain less qualified candidates might be able to do the work.

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There are several types of “less qualified” and I think it’s important not to lump everyone together.

There are kids with strong math and science skills and aptitude at HS’s with weak course offerings (so they’ve not have lab exposure, for example, no BC Calc offered).

There are kids with above average math/science skills and aptitude, and they got accelerated or designated Gifted in third grade or so… and by the virtue of intense tutoring and parental scaffolding, have managed to squeak out good grades in the intense math track designed for kids with much greater native ability.

There are kids who are absolute math/science superstars who have gaming addictions, substance issues, or even no issues- but they never learned to study in HS since they didn’t have to.

Etc.

All of these kids could be successful in an engineering program- I don’t think it makes any program more or less egalitarian-- just that some structural constructs make success more likely depending on the kids issues.

MIT’s first semester is Pass/Fail. Nobody would describe MIT as egalitarian since the bar to get admitted is very high, But MIT has a bunch of guardrails in place to keep a kid from failing-- lots and lots of sections for each required course, depending on how a kid does on the placement exam to make sure it is neither repetitive nor moves to fast; intense guidance, and a professor who needs to sign off on the schedule to make sure it isn’t overly ambitious, tons of tutoring and review opportunities, etc.

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I was really surprised by something my youngest son told me. He is in the Honors College at UF and majoring in Engineering. The 75th percentile SAT for the Honors College is a 1490 (and there is no test optional). Everyone there is a top academic performer from the 3rd most populous state. You would think that these kids would fall into your 2nd scenario (qualified candidates). Just about all of the Engineering majors in the Honors College took Calculus AB and BC in high school and take Honors Calculus 3 the first semester of their freshman year. My son told me that the average grade in the class was right at the B/C borderline. Half of the kids in this class, pretty much all of whom were straight A students in high school, had to go home at winter break and tell their families they got a C, D or F in Honors Calculus 3. My son told me that a lot of kids switched out of Engineering after this. This was a group you would think could handle whatever math was thrown at them but that wasn’t the case. Years ago, I saw similar things happen in Engineering when I was an undergraduate at UT Austin. I think things like this are common.

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Many schools grade on a curve for intro classes across majors.