<p>Suddenly I feel like there are so many doors open for me. So many useful suggestions you all have given. Thanks you. And sounds like all of them are great that each one has very good chance of being successful if tried. As you mentioned, I am asking my son to apply RPT, RIT, Case, Univ of Michigan and wait for their financial aid package. Based on that, we can negotiate the aid with CMU.</p>
<p>virginia </p>
<p>if your kid is at TJ and is considering RPI, feel free to PM me</p>
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<p>Be prepared that CMU may or may not negotiate. They are gunning their sights at the HYPSM and the lower Ivy’s and hence will give the best packages to those who are attractive to Ivy’s.</p>
<p>In your case, ED is not recommended. CMU is definitely a school that is likely to negotiate, so other offers are needed in order to have some basis. Declining ED is a big problem in its self. First of all, when you get your estimated fin aid from ED, you aren’t going to have any basis of comparison. You are then supposed to either accept the offer and cancel all of your other applications, or let the ED school know that the fin aid offer is not doable and request more money or a release from your commitment. All of this occurs in December right before everything shuts down for the holidays. If you don’t get the ED situation under control, you can end up on the ED accepted list and be taken out of some college’s consideration. So you should check that this has not happened and then have to explain your situation. None of this is painless, and I know most colleges hold a dim view of kids backing out of ED commitments. You really would have no basis to know what to even expect as a decent package from CMU at that point in time. If you let it go, you might find out in the end that it was a workable deal.</p>
<p>Cornell is also a good choice of schools, and they do meet 100% need. Johns Hopkins is also a good target school. True, CMU may or may not negotiate, but the young man’s stats are good, he is from VA, an underrepresented state there, so they just might. Can’t tell till you try.</p>
<p>Get a list of schools that have good programs in your son’s field and look for those that have generous merit awards. You are working with good material here. He is definitely someone that schools are going to want, so you will have wiggle room. You have little to lose with such good schools in your backyard at good prices. If your safeties are in line, you can take your chances any and everywhere.</p>
<p>CMU might negotiate with you but it won’t be helpful if the other schools are not peer schools (similar schools…in other words a lesser ranked school’s offer won’t be something they will consider) OR if the other schools offer your child less money (which could happen).</p>
<p>Univ of Michigan</p>
<p>If you are not instate for UMich, do not expect a lot from them.</p>
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<p>Why is this important? Is it essential that he have high school classmates in college with him? If he enrolls at UMich for example, even IF there is someone from his high school, he might never see them. The school is enormous.</p>
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<p>Mom2, this OP is from Virginia. My two cents worth…VT is an outstanding school. Many out of state techie types would be thrilled to attend this school. </p>
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<p>Maybe…maybe not. Depends on the part of the country. DD went to college in California (engineering) and no one there really cared much about CMU. Of course her school was smack in the middle of the Silicon Valley and Stanford, Berkeley, Santa Clara and USC were much more on the radar screens of the companies in that area of the country.</p>
<p>Schools like Virginia Tech turn out excellent and well regarded engineers. For that matter so do other instate publics in VA. I’m not saying that CMU isn’t a terrific school…it IS a terrific school. But I think you are trying to rationalize the additional cost when really those rationalizations may only be partially true.</p>
<p>I would think he would know a lot of kids at UVA,Virginia Tech and other schools. Not that many VA kids at CMU so the likelihood of him having a bunch of kids he knows there is small.</p>
<p>Hardly anyone at a top school will know anyone else, and it also seems irrelevant to me. Even at a regional school the chances are low. A freshman may see someone s/he knows from time to time, but the likelihood of their having been friends or becoming friends seems low. College is a time to make new friends, and it happens fast!</p>
<p>Actually,there are a number of schools where a lot of my kids friends tend to attend, and going to any of them means there would be a number of people familiar. I remember when I went to college, I was struck by how many of the kids knew each other, or of each other or had contacts that knew each other. I was a true outlier, though in a few weeks, I did find a few people within a couple of degrees of familiarity with me. But my school got 40% of its crop from NY area, and though the kids might not have come from the same schools, they often knew each other from competitive events. </p>
<p>My son went to a state school that is not popular with kids from our area. He knew only a handful of kids there. And few private school kids go to the SUNYs around here so, it was even more isolating to him. When he visited friends at private LaCs or at Tufts in Boston, he was always amazed at how many people he would run into that he knew from high school. Many of the private schools have sports and other activities they do together or compete within a league, so you do get to know a lot of kids in that crowd. </p>
<p>However, that is something that might strike you the first term at school. Thereafter, most of us tend to meet others that fit our current interests more. In some ways, being with a bunch of kids you’ve known a long time can impede developing other friendships. I see this with my shy, quiet high schooler who is with a lot of his friends from second grade through 8th, who ended up at the same high school. He tended to stick with them the first few years, exclusively, and it has been difficult this past year since many of them have developed other interests and friends, whereas he was content with the status quo. Had he been more forced to pay more attention to other kids, I think he would have been better off. I fear this with my little guy as well since he has spent his entire life at one school, and is likely to continue the trend through high school.</p>
<p>Vossron, CMU may <em>think</em> the package is affordable, but it may be more than this family can or wants to afford. I don’t doubt the sincerity of what CMU says-- I’m just saying that CMU will have little reason to bargain with an ED kid. The one family I knew that tried to bargain at CMU did so with a generous Case Western scholarship and an even more generous Oh State award. CMU gave them a bit more (I don’t remember the numbers) but it wasn’t nearly enough to make a difference for them. So, from what I know, I would say CMU does look at other awards but I suspect it would need to be a higher-ranked school than Case. </p>
<p>mom2college, If you meant they often don’t do 50-50, they never do 50-50. Fafsa does 50-50 and Profile does 60-60. Of course it doesn’t matter if the school doesn’t meet need-- but then it will be gapped anywy. </p>
<p>Frankly, I’m a little leary of those Cornell figures because $45K is very close to paying full price minus an unsub loan. I really suspect Cornell didn’t determine that this family had any need with one child; the school just offered them an unsubsidized loan. Cornell has an online calculator right on their website (<a href=“https://www.finaid.cornell.edu/apply/faestimator.cfm[/url]”>https://www.finaid.cornell.edu/apply/faestimator.cfm</a>). So, just to make sure, I ran some numbers. Of course there could be something very unusual about the parents’ situation but I did: Private tuition at Cornell (Arts & Sci), on a 191K salary, 70K savings, 500K home equity, 4 in family, older parent age 52. With one in college, it gives you a contribution of $45K. At this price point, Cornell only offers the student loans. If the figures are the same but 2 are in college (1 a freshman and the other a soph), Cornell expects family contribution of $57450 which is the parent 60% plus the student earnings. At that level, they give the kids $7500 each in loans, $2K each in jobs and give the older $15.5 in grant and the younger $13,452. They break down their figures in the “report” and that seems set at 60% if it’s two kids in college. I honestly suspect there may be something unusual about this family’s finances or, more likely, they just offered the student some loans. I checked because I have some personal experience with Cornell financial aid and found them reasonable. </p>
<p>As far as “With college costs rising, and colleges having limited funds, any big discounts for multiples in college may go away,” I guess we can always say anything can happen, but college costs have been rising since I first attended college and Profile and FAFSA schools have always considered how many kids are in college. Anything can happen but I wouldn’t worry about this one in the next few years.</p>
<p>*I really suspect Cornell didn’t determine that this family had any need with one child; the school just offered them an unsubsidized loan. *</p>
<p>the student was given federal work-study…so some need had to be determined. </p>
<p>Where does CSS say that it always splits at 60%?</p>
<p>“the student was given federal work-study…so some need had to be determined” </p>
<p>What I found on the Cornell calculator was that employment kicks in at Cornell right around a contribution of $45,000. So if the contribution was just over $45,000, there is no employment, right under $45,000, there is (it was under $50 but it was there). I’m not sure it’s federal work-study but it is employment. It looks like, for my mythical family with a $45K contribution, Cornell first offers each student $7500 in loans and then up to $2K in employment. Only after that does Cornell offer grant $. It does look like it has an initiative to reduce loans for families with lower incomes-- and that’s it’s going to start matching the parental contribution and loan levels from other ivies. To me, that says that anyone seriously interested in Cornell who needs aid may want to apply to other ivies. </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.finaid.cornell.edu/welcome.cfm[/url]”>https://www.finaid.cornell.edu/welcome.cfm</a></p>
<p>As far as where it says 60%, it took some looking to find it online but here’s an explanation of how IM is determined by Sandy Baum, an economist and Senior Policy Analyst at the College Board, and Kathleen Little, Executive Director of Financial Aid Services at the College Board. </p>
<p>[Carleton</a> College: Student Financial Services: How is Need Analysis Determined](<a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/campus/sfs/determining_aid/how/]Carleton”>http://apps.carleton.edu/campus/sfs/determining_aid/how/)</p>
<p>same document as a pdf </p>
<p>[Powered</a> by Google Docs](<a href=“http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:RT1zOPsno6MJ:professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/IM%2520-%2520What%2520is%2520it.pdf+college+“family+contribution”+multiple+siblings+in+college+“60+percent”&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShE39mN3ZEKJSfLNuNkylGrnQPFjDGgnpvnE2oAVCqnfo5P7yLlg6Cn3XQu-8rsUhl-aYngfNj6eXFyucnO20pxWawb1gXH_2vV1M--ppUc6FGItH2E8xDTbS8yRoJVrP_cnqWR&sig=AHIEtbQcmMkbimof4nWJVGAcQrYaGH9dwA]Powered”>http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:RT1zOPsno6MJ:professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/IM%2520-%2520What%2520is%2520it.pdf+college+“family+contribution”+multiple+siblings+in+college+“60+percent”&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShE39mN3ZEKJSfLNuNkylGrnQPFjDGgnpvnE2oAVCqnfo5P7yLlg6Cn3XQu-8rsUhl-aYngfNj6eXFyucnO20pxWawb1gXH_2vV1M--ppUc6FGItH2E8xDTbS8yRoJVrP_cnqWR&sig=AHIEtbQcmMkbimof4nWJVGAcQrYaGH9dwA)</p>
<p>Here’s the line from the Cornell calculator:
X Multiple college student adjustment N/A 60% </p>
<p>Anyway, I don’t know what the family’s situation is that you spoke to. It could be that the students have some assets or earnings of their own. (That would be the easiest explanation of the huge difference in family contribution.) But, from its online calculator, it does look like Cornell uses 60% for the parent contribution which is what the College Board uses for IM. </p>
<p>By the way, I’m glad I found this discussion. I didn’t know where to find that info online.</p>
<p>“In some ways, being with a bunch of kids you’ve known a long time can impede developing other friendships.”</p>
<p>It is very true and I agree with it. Actually, “my S will not have many friends from his high school” was MY concern. Not of my S’s. He is ok with going to new env without any of his friends. </p>
<p>No doubt, UVA and VA Tech are very good in-state tech schools for us and he is going to apply. My S targeting CMU just because that it has one of the best Comp Sci program in the country.</p>
<p>Virginia,</p>
<p>Does he have a sport/ hobby? If he gets involved in an activity in college (even ultimate frisbee-- he doesn’t have to be a 3-letter varsity athlete), he will make friends. Again, you know him best but most kids do well in a new atmosphere. If your son is at TJ, you really should talk to the parent who posted and the guidance counselors. Your son probably will do better at colleges that know that school so they know how unusually talented those kids are. You want them to know that B there isn’t a B at most places.</p>
<p>What I found on the Cornell calculator was that employment kicks in at Cornell right around a contribution of $45,000. So if the contribution was just over $45,000, there is no employment, right under $45,000, there is</p>
<p>The mom told me that her FAFSA EFC was $35k and her CSS one was about $10 higher…so it may have been $44k. Her D was given a loan and work-study. When asked about her son, she was told to expect to pay an amount that would be a lot more than 60% + 60%. 60% of $44k is about $26k. Doubled that would be about $52k. She was told to expect to pay a lot more than that. There are no exhusbands or anything like that. I will talk to her again to find out more details. :)</p>
<p>Thanks for the links.</p>
<p>The funny thing about a 60% split is that the school gets to use its own formula to determine the base number.</p>
<p>Thanks 2collegewego. I did send a PM to the other parent.</p>
<p>mom, I hope what they told her to expect was wrong; that’s a huge jump. If, in fact, the kids have any assets or income, she may want to spend them down. If I were her, I would also spend some time on the Cornell calculator to see what could be done and I would get my kid to apply to some other ivies even if just for the possibility of having a bargaining chip. And, just to be clear, even with no child assets or earnings, 60-60 was $57450K because the $52K is <em>just</em> the parental contribution. The school adds to that what they expect each student to contribute. In the calculator with my mythical family, Cornell put that right around $3K per kid. (And then it’s <em>still</em> another $19K before the family will get a penny of grant $-- $15K in combined loans and $4K in combined work. So the family would have to contribute almost $75 in money/loans and work before getting any ‘free’ money.)</p>
<p>"Mom2, this OP is from Virginia. My two cents worth…VT is an outstanding school. Many out of state techie types would be thrilled to attend this school. "</p>
<p>My more than 2 cents back.</p>
<p>A. I would love to meet the parents of a tech oriented kid in Virginia with stats like the OP who hasn’t already heard about Vtech. Trust me, we all know about VTech.</p>
<p>B. Amazingly there are techy kids who are not good fits for VTech, in particular kids who are targeting smaller institutions (I note OPs list seems to be mainly smaller schools, with the glaring exception of U Michigan)</p>
<p>C. At least some of the privates on OP’s list know they are competing with VTech for Virginia students, and will sometimes extend FA packages with that in mind, IIUC.</p>
<p>RPI definitely knows about TJ. Definitely.</p>
<p>I believe strongly that Case does (DD also was accepted there)</p>
<p>I am less sure about RIT, but would be surprised if they do not know it about it.</p>
<p>Check out the last senior edition of TJtoday. There was one to RPI (yay!!), one to Case, I dont recall about RIT.</p>