<p>So I'm having trouble convincing my extremely narrow-minded parents that transferring to an Ivy League school majoring in History is a good idea. They think that I won't get a job - "Who would hire a history major? What can you do with that?"</p>
<p>I tried to convince them that as a liberal arts major one would be equipped with great writing skills, communication skills, critical thinking skills, etc. but they still don't buy it. That's the beauty of a liberal arts education, but my parents are all about "practical" majors and majoring in a particular skilled major (accounting, statistics, engineering, and so forth). They really hate humanities and social science majors like English and History, and don't think you can do anything profitable with a Sociology degree.</p>
<p>I am having a hard time finding post-graduate surveys of Ivies on their websites, so I was hoping if I could enlist some of you who are more familiar with the websites and data available there - can any of you guys lend a hand and help me find post-graduate surveys of Ivies? </p>
<p>In particular, the distribution of majors upon graduation and what industries they went into - I want to show my parents that, yes, as hard as it is to believe that an English major goes into consulting (among other fields), even those at Ivies (yes, Mom, it's true). </p>
<p>My parents won't take my word on it, so I decided to try to find the hard facts and figures myself.</p>
<p>They are just worried about financing my education and want to make sure that paying for my education in "History" is not financially stupid and will actually pay off in the long run.</p>
<p>I was a "social science" major at an Ivy (undergrad) way back when and had no trouble receiving multiple offers from i-banks and consulting firms.</p>
<p>The major is less important than the overall "package". Coming from a top undergrad helps you get in the door at most major firms. The rest is up to your ability to "sell" yourself. Of course it helps (just at any stage of competition) that you have punched above your weight vs. your peers. Are your grades stellar? Do you have leadership positions? Your knowledge of the firms / industries you are trying to break into? References, etc.</p>
<p>I can tell you that aside from very specialized majors (such as comp sci or engineering -- and firms that are looking to hire those specific majors) that this should have minimal impact on your ability to succeed in the "real world".</p>
<p>History majors are no exception. If you have a passion for the subject, you do well in your classes, can get some great references, then you should be able to work for a broad range of companies and your choices for grad school should also be pretty wide as well (aside, of course, from something very specialized such as medicine). And if you are coming from a top school such as an Ivy, you are already in pretty decent company -- i.e. coming from a high caliber student body, hence why most major firms recruit there.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, companies are looking for bright individuals. No one is expected to be a seasoned pro from the beginning regardless of what industry it is. Companies want hard workers, team players. Can this individual grow, learn, contribute? Can this individual think critically, solve problems? That is why many years out, many MBAs from the top b-schools (myself included) often point to the "softer" subjects as having a considerable impact in their positions later on -- subjects like negotiations and organizational behavior. Emotional IQ is a big buzzword nowadays and rightly so. Leaders of companies are not often the "smartest" guys in the room (some are, but often they are not). But they are great organizers or communicators or critical thinkers or networkers or able to identify the best people for the best positions and can get them to work effectively as a team. Often times its about your ability to get people to see things your way. People skills -- vastly underrated but probably the single most important skill to have (if nothing else) in the business world. </p>
<p>If it was all about hard IQ, then shouldn't rocket scientists and PhD's be running the world?</p>
<p>Rocket scientists and science PhDs ARE the people who "run" the world in the sense that they have a great, direct impact on the world, much more so than the figure-head "leaders" and politicians who don't do any real work but ply their way into the confidence of strangers by developing a line of patter, smiling, and looking good. Politicians and heads of companies and organizations are not the "real" leaders in the long run.</p>
<p>Maybe you can dig up the recent survey of salaries by college. Don't remember the details but it was a salary survey of those who only had undergrad degrees by college. Dartmouth, which has no practical majors other than a few engineering students, came out on top and the other ivies and top LACs ranked highly too.</p>
<p>Are you a boy, or a girl. This may sound sexist, but men have a responsiblity to thier future children and wife to be able to provide for them. If you were my child I would advise you against pursuing a history major unless you were going to become a lawyer.
If you are a girl I would say go for it, but IMO girls have less of a monetary responsibility to provide for a family.
You should really consider the future in all your decisions.</p>
<p>transferring to an Ivy League school
Not to burst your bubble, but aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself? Have you looked at the transfer acceptance rate for Ivy's lately? It's even harder to transfer into an Ivy than to get in as a freshman. H and P aren't accepting transfers, and other Ivy acceptance rates are in the low single digits, so if you are intent on transferring, you will probably have to widen your list of colleges to apply to.</p>
<p>People with bachelor's degrees in accounting, statistics, and engineering do indeed get jobs. People with liberal arts backgrounds plus technical skills get careers and rise to positions of leadership in accounting, statistical, and engineering firms, where they supervise people with bachelor's degrees in accounting, statistics, and engineering. If your parents don't believe it, look up the Fortune 500 companies, pick a couple dozen at random, and check the backgrounds of their CEOs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If your parents don't believe it, look up the Fortune 500 companies, pick a couple dozen at random, and check the backgrounds of their CEOs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>All other things being equal, wouldn't you expect more liberal arts type majors to be heading Fortune 500 companies because they're more popular majors? According to the NCES, engineerig/statistics majors (couldn't find accounting) made up approximately 5% of all undergraduates while majors people would consider "liberal arts" such as the social sciences, languages, etc, made up a far larger fraction (social sciences alone were double engineering + math). see <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/xls/tabn249.xls%5B/url%5D">http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d05/tables/xls/tabn249.xls</a></p>
<p>Without looking into it much deeper, I agree that liberal arts majors can make it into the top spots at successful companies, BUT you might be trying to compare a group that represents a much more elite portion of popular majors with an above average portion of a somewhat unpopular major.</p>
<p>Jeffersonian, I would tell your parents to not be worried at all. Unless you're going into a job that requires a specific degree like engineering (and even then physics majors are a pretty common sight), most employers just want smart people and use a college degree as a means to screen potential employees.</p>
<p>So I did what you suggested... head of Coca Cola, BS in economics post grad is business</p>
<p>Head of UPS -- Bachelor's of Finance (gasp from Portland State University yet he managed to go to Wharton -- after working a while it appears -- for graduate program)</p>
<p>Head of Koch industries (one of US largest private companies) BS from MIT</p>
<p>Head of Shearing-Plough degree in chemical engineering</p>
<p>So I wouldn't say that everyone who earns a "practical" degree ends up working for someone else... would you?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Rocket scientists and science PhDs ARE the people who "run" the world in the sense that they have a great, direct impact on the world, much more so than the figure-head "leaders" and politicians who don't do any real work but ply their way into the confidence of strangers by developing a line of patter, smiling, and looking good. Politicians and heads of companies and organizations are not the "real" leaders in the long run.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>collegehelp,</p>
<p>are you suggesting that policymakers, lawmakers, Supreme Court Justices, the President of the US, CEOs of corporations all take a back seat to rocket scientists vis a vis the impact on the daily lives of your average citizen? or further that the only "real work" that is ever done are done by scientists?</p>
<p>Dbate,
I am a female and I intend on going to law school. </p>
<p>menloparkmom,
I do not think I am getting extremely ahead of myself. Did I say I would for sure get into Ivies through transferring? No. However, I am currently a second semester freshman now at a top 20 school and last year as a high school senior was accepted to other top 20 schools as well (did not apply to any Ivies, however) -- so I would not say this is ridiculously out of my range.</p>
<p>The university where I currently am specializes in math, science, and engineering and has a large pre-med population in the student body. I entered school as a pre-med not because I wanted to but because my parents wanted me to, and this semester after being miserable and unhappy, I finally put my foot down and said that I wanted to study History, a humanities subject.</p>
<p>My strengths are in the humanities and social sciences, and likewise my weaknesses in math, science and engineering. I had absolutely no desire to go to medical school, and instead wanted to go to law school -- but was open to business school as well. My parents want me to transfer out to other top 20 schools with undergrad business programs and get a degree in accounting or statistics and so forth, but I want to transfer out after perhaps another year at my current university as a History major. </p>
<p>I was already aware that Harvard and Princeton do not accept transfers; on the whole, however, Ivies generally have the strongest history departments in the country, and I especially am interested in Yale. </p>
<p>Is it really that hard to find post graduate surveys of Ivies from their websites? I appreciate some of the informative input here, but I'd like to see hard facts and numbers.</p>
<p>"last year as a high school senior was accepted to other top 20 schools as well (did not apply to any Ivies, however) -- so I would not say this is ridiculously out of my range."
Nor am I, but the reality is that last year Yale accepted less than 4% of transfer applicants- which is 1/2 their freshman acceptance rate. So regardless of how much you are interested in a college that had that kind of acceptance rate, the chances of acceptance are very low. I'm not suggesting you are not qualified, but the basic statistical chances of acceptance as a transfer student are not very good, so don't put all your eggs in one basket. I suggest you do some research on the transfer forum. There is lots of valuable info to be found there.</p>
<p>Transfer Applicants: 775
Transfer Admits: 28 (3.61%)
Transfers Enrolled: 23
All I am doing is trying to get you to realize that the top tier Ivy's only as many have openings as the number of students who decide to leave. Since very few Ivy students do leave, there are very few openings for transfer students, regardless of their interest or qualifications. 2 years ago, my son, who was accepted as a freshman to 2 Ivy's- B and D, as well as 8 other top 20 universities and LAC's, reapplied to both Ivy's after his freshman year, and was turned down. You may want to consider the U of Chicago, which does hold openings for about 40 transfer students a year, and has one of the strongest humanities programs in the country.</p>
<p>just out of curiosity, where does your son go, and if he applied as a transfer and got into B and D then why didn't he just enroll the first time?</p>
<p>He applied as a freshman and was accepted, but was not accepted as a transfer.
"why didn't he just enroll the first time"
Because he got a full tuition scholarship from USC, he hates to fly and did not look forward to 10 hours of travel time getting home from the east coast, he did not like the isolation of Dartmouth and the whole Frat scene there, and he wanted to do a double major in Geophysics and Music, and the Brown music dept did not past muster with him when he visited during accepted students days[ he did not have a chance to visit those schools before applying]. He was kind of unhappy his first year in college- had a hard time initially finding a group of equally smart peers, but now he has[ there are a lot of smart students at USC these days!] andis very happy and we are all relieved we don't have to pay tuition $$, especially these days!</p>
<p>i see, i'm happy for your son that he has adjusted and has found a steady core group of friends -- nothing makes college experience worse than not having that support group around you.</p>