<p>Does UChicago provide an online report of graduation outcomes, with information about sectors, employers, position types, region, etc? (I did a quick search for such a report and came up empty.)</p>
<p>We're visiting UChicago for the 4/22-23 accepted student event. It looks like S will choose between UC and MIT. He had a fabulous time at MIT-CPW and is also excited about visiting UC. The MIT career office has a comprehensive report online and it would be interesting for us to compare the two student populations.</p>
<p>Yeah, that would be nice. Not going to happen, though. I don’t think Chicago even tries to track stuff like that – certainly not in any regular, transparent way.</p>
<p>In any event, it would be awfully hard to compare the two schools’ reports, even if Chicago had one, because the student bodies are so different. Probably a third to half of the Chicago student body has the skills and inclination to do what MIT students do, but either they failed to get admission to MIT or affirmatively chose Chicago with its much greater emphasis on well-roundedness and impracticality (and, yes, I know MIT students are plenty well-rounded). And the rest of the Chicago students are completely non-tech. Meanwhile, many/most of the MIT students have been getting practical engineering training that (a) has immediate value in the marketplace at graduation, and (b) is completely unavailable at Chicago. </p>
<p>So the question can’t be “Which college’s graduates get better, higher-paying first jobs?” It’s “How badly does MIT beat Chicago, and is there some identifiable subset of students at either college that can be compared in a meaningful way?”</p>
<p>It’s not a competition (for us) about which school’s graduates get better jobs faster. I want a feel for the % of students going to professional schools (business/law/medical), % going to academic graduate programs, % going directly to work (and in what different sectors), and so on.</p>
<p>S is not a typical science/math/engineering admit, and it may be a very close call between MIT and UC. Comparing the pre-professional mindset of the two student bodies might be helpful for us.</p>
<p>Well, the latest NSF data from 2008 on undergraduate origins of science and engineering PhDs shows MIT in third place on a per-capita basis (with about 16.6% of graduates getting science or engineering PhDs) and Chicago in seventh place (with about 10.6% of graduates getting them). Both would be higher if you counted non-science/engineering PhDs, and Chicago would almost certainly pass MIT, but I think they would remain comparable, at least. </p>
<p>By the way, in the per capita analysis, even limiting things to science/engineering fields, only one other comprehensive research university made the top 10 – Princeton, in 10th place. Chicago produces more future PhDs than similar schools. </p>
<p>Chicago produces plenty of future lawyers – I assume more than MIT – but less than Harvard, Yale, etc. by a noticeable margin. Doctors? Ditto in all respects, except I assume that MIT produces more, probably not by a lot. B-school? Who knows? (In part because it’s relatively rare to go straight there.) Both schools will attract their future business contingent, as well as having people who discover a business interest after college. At Chicago, SOME sort of graduate school is nearly universal, or if not universal than well over 70%. Because lots of MIT graduates CAN get high-paying, good-career-path jobs right out of college, I doubt as high a percentage of them overall eventually go to graduate school. </p>
<p>But, really, come on! You don’t need an electron microscope to tell the difference between MIT and the University of Chicago! Whatever modest differences would show up in this kind of data are going to reflect what is SIMILAR about these colleges rather than differentiating them. The differences are vast and are right there on the surface. A 5% difference either way in PhD yield can’t help anyone decide whether he’s more an MIT kind of person or a UChicago kind of person.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is much point to compare two schools of this caliber based on which school provides a better post graduate prospect. We are not comparing MIT with a Podunk U in the middle of nowhere, nor are we comparing Chicago with a no-name U in Timbuktu. </p>
<p>No employer will ever compare two job candidates with comparable qualifications and say, “Gee, X only graduated from MIT while Y graduated from Chicago (or visa versa), therefore, I am taking Y”. If we are putting two universities that are rated within top 10 both domestically and worldwide, whatever difference emerges in the post graduate statistics is mostly attributable to the career/future choices the students themselves make rather than whether one university is valued better by the outside world.</p>
<p>Nor do I believe whatever the school does (career advisory staff, etc) has a determining effect either: we are talking about extremely intelligent and motivated kids in both schools - it’s not like we are talking about the effect of remedial math class on the high school graduation rate in a very tough neighborhood. </p>
<p>I am in high tech, so I see a plenty of MIT graduates - none from Chicago so far. However, in a different field, it would be a different story. How many Pulitzer winners are from MIT vs. Chicago? </p>
<p>Both are great schools. If your son likes tech stuff and is likely to end up in such a field, he should go to MIT: much better opportunities for tech related majors, internship, and choices. My son is an aspiring Wall Street banker, and had no desire to go to MIT. He preferred Chicago where he could get much broader education in the liberal arts part. </p>
<p>Your son has a very good problem of choosing between two amazing universities. Good luck.</p>
<p>I have a S who chose between Chicago, MIT, Mudd and a full ride to our flagship two years ago. After many years in a public math/science selective admit program, he was ready to develop the other side of his brain and to find others who were as passionate about English Lit, polisci, etc. as he is about math/CS. Chicago offers both the stellar math and the Core. He knows he wants to attend grad school and has had the subspecialty nailed down for a few years (and it has only further solidified since).</p>
<p>He LOVES Chicago. Is happy with his classes, the Core, math and CS department advisers, access to accelerated UG and grad placement, extracurriculars, etc. Over time, he has come to realize there are certain things MIT math/CS offers that are harder to come by in Chicago. (Cambridge also has a Trader Joe’s and more contra dancing, but those are separate issues. :)) However, he has been able to create some of his own opportunities/take advantage of other programs/activities through his experiences at Chicago. For example, he got a job working for a prof at MIT after first year that came about largely <em>because</em> he was taking Chicago’s Core. He has a most excellent high-tech job this summer. </p>
<p>We’ll see how the rigor of the math department plays out when it comes time for graduate school applications, but he is learning a great deal and gets his tail kicked regularly with the level of challenge. But that’s exactly the experience he wanted to have at Chicago. </p>
<p>I have a younger S who is currently in the throes of deciding between Chicago and Tufts (he’s an IR guy). Internships are a bit more important towards his future goals, so this is something he’s been hunting down with students and contacts at both schools. </p>
<p>Both my kids have focused on the kind of education they would get and the abilities they’d have in terms of analysis, writing and critical thinking that they could apply to whatever they do throughout their careers. It has not been about job placement per se. (I may regret this approach later, but for now, it has been working pretty darned well for S1.)</p>
<p>Chicago vs. MIT is a terrific dilemma to have. There are no bad choices here, just different ones.</p>
<p>My son recently asked that question of the head of undergraduate studies in the Philosophy Department. He was told that they didn’t have that info. UChicago also doesn’t publish that info about law school admits either, whereas other schools do. The federal government should require such information be made available as a matter of consumer protection. More transparency is better as it allows one to pierce the veil of branding. Is Volvo safer than all other cars? Probably not but their branding leads one to assume that it is.</p>
<p>I have been involved in both academic and business worlds for many (too many) years. I can assure you that a degree from Chicago will only help one’s application. There is an immediate, almost unqualified respect given a Chicago grad. Having said that, one must also show initiative, research or job promise/experience, and have good recommendations no matter where one is from.</p>
I want a feel for the % of students going to professional schools (business/law/medical), % going to academic graduate programs, % going directly to work (and in what different sectors), and so on.</p>