Post Mortem: Lessons from the Class of 2005

Parents Forum
1

<p>*Moving many posts from the "So.... Berurah" thread to a new heading, as many of us felt there were some key, key, key lessons in that thread, which might be missed</p>

<p>Apologize - as the way I cut and pasted, you cannot always tell who is speaking: the first part here is Berurah, thinking back over her and her S's experience - lots of great wisdom and advice from berurah. later posts go back and forth fr. berurah, andi, and many many others. -jmmom*</p>

<p>
[Quote]

A while back, (before all the wonderful admissions and program offers came rolling in) you commented that if you knew more, back when, you would have approached the entire college search and list differently with your S. At the time, I was wondering where you thought he went wrong in creating his list. However, just the other day someone (sorry, can't recall who) complimented your son on having a well-balanced list.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So .... looking back ... would your S have set up his list differently? </p>

<p>At different stages throughout this whole process, I have had very different feelings about the college list my son compiled. Since our experience, like that of so many others, was filled with quite a few unanticipated ups and downs, my feelings on this have continued to evolve.</p>

<p>Tonight, as I answer this post, I am speaking from the perspective of "one of the lucky ones" whose son has realized his fondest and most long-standing college dream. I suppose at this point, I could just look at the whole ordeal and say, "If everything hadn't happened EXACTLY as it did, we may not have had the outcome that we do now." But, notwithstanding that line of thinking, this is what I would have encouraged him to do differently:</p>

<p>1.) Take seriously the advice to "build your list from the safeties up". He definitely did not do this. My son began with a top-heavy list, and the list remained top heavy throughout the process. The problem I had in guiding him was that with his test scores and transcripts, I had some difficulty distinguishing between matches and reaches for him. In a sense, his reaches WERE his matches, and it has become obvious from some of the results of CCers' kids that this is a very real problem for some of the very high functioning kids. For example, I would have thought that andi's son would have had no issue at all getting into Oberlin (as an NMF and exceedingly talented musician), but he was waitlisted there. In light of that, I would have had my son research more safeties (preferably ones with generous merit money), and I would have encouraged him to "fall in love with them".</p>

<p>2.) I would have encouraged him to apply to at least two schools with rolling admissions so that some of the pressure could have been released. He only applied to one school with rolling admissions, the University of Michigan. Unfortunately, I was fairly ignorant regarding the workings of rolling admissions, so I didn't realize the enormous benefit (particularly psychologically) in getting that app. in early. My son did not turn his Mich. app in until Jan. 10. I will always wonder if an earlier submission of that application might have resulted in a better financial aid package and maybe even some merit money. As it was, he only received a tiny loan from them, though he did hear back about his acceptance in only 5 weeks. </p>

<p>3.) I would have discouraged his EA app. to Yale. IMHO, that whole experience was WAY too costly, both psychologically and time-wise. My son spent a GREAT deal of time on that application. He spent many, many hours on the essays and put everything he had into presenting the best possible picture of himself and his abilities. The ease with which that whole application was shot down by the adcom really unnerved my son (and me!) and it shook his confidence to the core. In addition, the time spent on that ONE application took away from time spent on some of the subsequent ones. In retrospect, if my son had been determined to submit that EA applicaiton, I would have encouraged him to treat it as he did each and every other app--I would have encouraged him to do it, submit it, and then forget about it and move on to the other ones. All in all, the Yale EA app. significantly impacted the Stanford app. (which was due on the same day as the Yale rejection came in), and the rejection completely demoralized him and made it difficult for him to work on the other apps. (most due within two weeks of the rejection) with the enthusiasm that they deserved.</p>

<p>4.) I would have encouraged my son to research and apply to more schools known for good merit aid and schools which were seeking applicants with either his demographics or area of interest--in other words, try to seek out places where he would be in demand.</p>

<p>5.) I would have had more discussion with my son regarding best/worst case scenarios and made sure that he fully understood the implications of his choices. For example, the philosophy he began with was this: "I want to try for this school and that school and this other school, and if I don't get into any of those, then I'll just go to the flagship U. and save the money for grad school". Well, as time wore on, and he realized that the flagship U was a REAL possibility, he got VERY nervous and changed his whole philosophy, but it was almost too late for him to do that. We did end up adding a couple of schools at the very end, but his list remained nearly unchanged throughout the entire process, and we became quite nervous about it as time wore on. One of the schools that we added later turned out the be a very good choice. UMiami offered him great merit money and provided an excellent alternative to attending school in state, something he really didn't want to do, as it turned out.</p>

<p>6.) I would have paid more attention to "priority deadlines" for our state U. to guarantee the largest financial aid package if our choice had come down to that. It would have taken very little effort to get everything in to University of Kansas earlier, and it would have probably resulted in even more merit money than he received. </p>

<p>Of course, I might have had much more to say about this if things hadn't turned out the way they did for him. While it's true that all's well that ends well, this whole process could have been more enjoyable and less stressful if we had done the things I mentioned above!</p>

<p>I </p>

<p>From our experience (SCEA rejection from Stanford, 4 out of 4 acceptances RD from Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern & U VA), I think my S's GC, school "culture," and intrinsic maturity (which beat mine, hands-down) proved that kids who go into college selection fully emotionally aware of the "lottery" nature of the selective schools' acceptance possibilities are well-served. So much is beyond their control. My S was fully aware, from Day One, that he would be happy at whichever school offered him admission--his safety was U VA, and right now he's torn between it and Cornell as his final choice. He was also aware he'd be upset and unhappy at rejections, but would likely get one or more--</p>

<p>Bottom line: To the extent we as parents can keep our kids on an even emotional keel, finding that "perfect balance" between encouragement and realism, our kids will do better with this very high-stress process. It's a lesson my S taught me. Reaching for the stars (selective schools) is a good thing...but not at the price of it defining the kid's self-evaluation/self confidence. </p>

<p>So, I'd say and I'd bet Berurah would agree w/me, the first and best step would be to find a "safety" that will make the kid happy...and then "play the lottery" for other choices after that...</p>

<p>I'd also say we parents would be VERY well-served to put more trust in our kids and their viewpoints...at least in the case of my S and his friends who shared their application experiences w/me, they were far more "together" about their prospects and expectations than us adults--who looked at the kids' resumes and application packages and couldn't believe any school would say "no" to them! At least at my house, the biggest "problem" was me...not my S!!!</p>

<p>Another last thought: the process of deciding among acceptances has turned out to be so much more stressful than we would have anticipated...it argues in favor of reducing lists, I think...I don't know what the right balance is--and now I will never know, as S is my only child and my journey thru the college app process is now approaching being over...but I'm shocked at how difficult it is to say "no" to the 3 schools he will not attend...it does make me wish we'd considered applying to fewer schools (altho again I'm quite sure my S would disagree w/me!)...</p>

<p>Anyway...just some thoughts for a Sunday morning...by the way: do we have any update on Andi's child? I'm so hoping the waitlst unlocks for them...<he only="" applied="" to="" one="" school="" with="" rolling="" admissions,="" the="" university="" of="" michigan.="" unfortunately,="" i="" was="" fairly="" ignorant="" regarding="" workings="" so="" didn't="" realize="" enormous="" benefit="" (particularly="" psychologically)="" in="" getting="" that="" app.="" early.="" my="" son="" did="" not="" turn="" his="" mich.="" app="" until="" jan.="" 10.="" will="" always="" wonder="" if="" an="" earlier="" submission="" application="" might="" have="" resulted="" a="" better="" financial="" aid="" package="" and="" maybe="" even="" some="" merit="" money.="" as="" it="" was,="" he="" received="" tiny="" loan="" from="" them,="" though="" hear="" back="" about="" acceptance="" 5="" weeks.=""></he></p>

2

<p>Continued posts from the so.... berurah thread on lessons learend:</p>

<p>We were like you. We considered UMich kind of a safety but my S did not apply until Dec 10. The biggest scholarship that they offer only considers kids who have been accepted by I think Jan 15. My S got in just after that. Our mistake was not applying early enough AND not showing enough interest (visits, interviews) in our safeties. </p>

<p>Interesting! I didn't know the college factored in 'showing interest in the school' (via visits, etc.) in their assessment of the student for admission! </p>

<p>One of the more valuable lessons to be taken away from Berurah's post is the importance of the emotional toll of EA/ED rejection. Not only does it affect the students ability to concentrate on the RD applications but it colors their perception of their chances for the rest of the process. Applying early to a safety and getting admitted can be very beneficial. </p>

<p>I think your post should be a must read for any parent in your situation - a high achieving child living in an area where few students apply to elite colleges. There is solid advice for everyone, but a real wake-up call and a plan for those who don't have many sources of info.</p>

<p>Don't beat yourself up too much. You cannot take the emotion out of the process. Even if a mature student read your plan and followed it, there would be times of angst and high drama - if not the severe reaction to a rejection you guys felt, then something else. I discovered CC early in the process and DD went into the apps with a clear vision of what she was going to do, we still both had plenty of tears, slammed doors and times when felt as if she wouldn't get in anywhere - it is natural.</p>

<p>" </p>

<p>First of all, congrats to you and your son for overcoming his initial setback and achieving success in this process.</p>

<p>I came in late to your story, only having joined this board last month, so forgive me if this was already covered. Right now, my D is considering applying early to a particular Ivy (not HYP). It seems like it would be most important to do psychological preparation, i.e. do your best on the app, but don't count on getting in. If you do, great, if not, move forward. Do you feel this approach would have helped with your son, or, in retrospect, would it have been better not to have done ED to a top school at all? </p>

<p>I wish I knew about CC earlier, as I got into it after the process was basically over. I didn't know about the crap shoot of getting into an elite college. I knew that when I went to school (many years ago) my DD would have been accepted hands down. So we were unprepared for the rejection. This truly affected the rest of the process and my DD's emotional state. I now wish she had waited for RD. Although we are still disappointed with the EA decision, I believe she will thrive where she will go. Our GC was no help-new school, little experience in dealing with elite schools. Their focus is getting the kids into the state schools. And she was an experienced counselor, having transferred from another school. If I had known what I have learned here, I would have educated her. berurah, I am thrilled that your son got into his original dream school. He deserves it. What a terrific young man. And you are truly a great mom! Don't kick yourself over this. God has His plan... </p>

<p>It seems like it would be most important to do psychological preparation, i.e. do your best on the app, but don't count on getting in. If you do, great, if not, move forward. Do you feel this approach would have helped with your son, or, in retrospect, would it have been better not to have done ED to a top school at all? </p>

<p>I feel that better psychological preparation would have helped immensely with my son. Knowing him the way I do, I feel that if we had BOTH gone into the EA app. round with a different type of expectation, he would have survived it much more psychologically intact. Since the EA app. is the first one, and since my son who applied was my oldest, this was our VERY first college app. experience. </p>

<p>I think that we both:
1.) Didn't understand the basic purpose of the EA round at Yale.</p>

<p>2.) Thought that Yale would respond to some VERY special things in his app. much as Duke, JHU, and Penn did (my son had an EXTREMELY unique letter of rec. that we thought would be very compelling to Yale, but obviously it wasn't).</p>

<p>3.) Thought that our geographical location would be more compelling, as we are in a significantly underrepresented area.</p>

<p>He spent a GREAT deal of time on this app., but more significantly, WAY TOO MUCH emotional energy on it. If we had it to do over and he still wanted to put this bid in, I would support him, BUT I would help him to approach it as I mentioned above. DO YOUR BEST, SEND IT IN, and then FORGET ALL ABOUT IT and EXPECT A REJECTION. Treat anything other than that as a most precious gift.</p>

<p>I believe that MY son would have been able to handle that approach, but if I knew that my child would NOT be able to dissasociate from the whole EA process in that way, I would, without a doubt, have discouraged that application, at least to a school with the selectivity rating of HYPS.</p>

<p>I wish your daughter all the best as she (and you) enter this process in earnest. It can be grueling, but rewarding. Learn from our mistakes, and come to us for support....we are behind you all the way!</p>

<p>...by the way: do we have any update on Andi's child? I'm so hoping the waitlst unlocks for them... </p>

<p>ed. note: andi posting below</p>

<p>hi overanxiousmom I'm still here. I haven't posted much because I haven't had much to share except whining and I don't think anyone wants to hear much of that! We won't know anything about s's wait list status for another couple of weeks. Some days we're fine and can accept the outcome and understand that it was a combination of the 'system' and our own 'misguided judgement' and on other days we're basically overcome with sadness about the schools he would so loved to have attended. Our spring vacation, which is just ending, was especially painful because many of his friends were off for accepted students visiting days and also, the free time gave s a chance to reflect upon what had happened. It's been a real test of character for him to continue to work hard at school and his music activities and not feel totally disheartened.
We've followed to the letter the advice of interesteddad as far as rigorously pursuing the wait list school that s would so love to go to, and have pursued to a somewhat lesser extent, the others. If he doesn't get in then he's going to pursue some additional courses and do some volunteer work-- we're looking into those options too.
I only wish I had started reading this board a year ago.
Aside from the practical advice I've gotten from people like interesteddad, I've gotten so much emotional support from others who have sent me pm's and posted here. It's REALLY helped me to get through this. So thank you all!!!!!!!!!! If he gets into the school he loves I'm going to figure out how to post the announcement with the biggest brightest type ever seen on CC! </p>

<p>Thanks for your response, and again, congrats and much future success & happiness to your son. If I hadn't started reading these boards, I would have thought my daughter was a shoe in at this school. I'm glad I now know better so I can keep her (and my!) expectaions in line. </p>

<p>Others can probably address this subject better than I, but some schools are more responsive than others to interest shown. I know that WashU is one of them. Those who visit and make a clear preference known stand a much better chance of being admitted. My son was waitlisted there, and we did not visit.</p>

<p>I didn't see this post so much as second guessing as I did attempting to do a useful postmortem for others who come after. While it's true that everything ended up very well for my son, I am of the mind that it could just as easily have come out very, very differently. That is why I think the analysis of the whole process was useful. </p>

<p>In the end, I have no regrets that I cannot live with...but that is ONLY because things turned out the way they did. If they had not (which was a real possibility), I would have had some very serious regrets. For example, one of them would have been not getting the UMich app. in earlier for serious merit money consideration. My son truly loves UMich, but as it stands now, it would cost us significantly more than Duke, so we would not have been able to consider it under those circumstances. </p>

<p>Whereas I felt that both my son and I cognitively understood the odds against elite admissions acceptances, we both became a bit caught up in the whole thing with the early Yale app. In a sense, we let our emotional guard down, and it was a very costly mistake (emotionally).</p>

<p>I think you can <em>understand</em> something on an intellectual level but still not fully embrace it on an emotional level, KWIM??</p>

<p>I do completely agree with your following statement! I do not think that my son properly did this, but as the process wore on, he began to understand this more fully, and from this, his excitement at the prospect of UMiami was born!</p>

3

<p>** more wisdom and lessons from the so... berurah thread**
I also agree with you about the difficulty in choosing between acceptances; however, I would not consider reducing a list for this reason alone. The choice between even just TWO wonderful schools would be difficult, and IMHO the risk you take by reducing the list when you are applying to crapshoot schools is too great.</p>

<p>my s also applied to Y EA and was deferred and then rejected. It's easy to convince your child that these schools are crap shoots but the actual process of filling out the application- all the soul searching for the essay and the laying out of one's accomplishments during high school- becomes an emotional investment. It's not hard to feel emotionally detached BEFORE filling out the application, but I don't think there are that many people who can become involved enough to create a well written application and then still feel detached.</p>

4

<p>final transfer from the so... berurah thread

[Quote]

We were like you. We considered UMich kind of a safety but my S did not apply until Dec 10. The biggest scholarship that they offer only considers kids who have been accepted by I think Jan 15. My S got in just after that. Our mistake was not applying early enough AND not showing enough interest (visits, interviews) in our safeties.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>ACK! Just as I suspected! I'd like that one over, especially given his strong interest in Michigan.... </p>

<p>One of the more valuable lessons to be taken away from Berurah's post is the importance of the emotional toll of EA/ED rejection. </p>

<p>marite~I would completely concur with this statement! Not sure I would have heeded it if I had not had the experience myself, but I hope others are smarter than I! ~b. </p>

<p>Andi, so glad to hear from you! I have thought about you often, but every time I start to post "What's happening?" I remember that nothing is happening yet, it is still too early. The best of luck to him.
I hope that you have the emotional strength to repost his story after you hear from the waitlist - good or bad. I think his story is going to have a happy ending, just like Beururah's son, it may just take a little longer. Still, there are lessons for the juniors in what happened to him, even if there is no understanding why or how? You are a strong family with a wonderful son who has great things</p>

5

<p>Thank you cangel. I really appreciate your kind words. I definitely do intend to start a thread when s's future is more clear. And I think they shoud tack it to the top of the page as a warning to all future applicants. Something along the lines of Warning! This could be you!!
You don't know pain until your child is facing preparation for 3 AP exams and has no place to go to school. His friends are all celebrating their admissions or agonizing over which school to choose. No senioritis for him! Trust me, I'll be able to scare even the most confident applicants into applying to a battery of safety schools!!!!!!! </p>

<p>I think your entire summary is worth putting up as a sticky. I remembered the Yale Massacre last year, but no one expressed as well as you have the demoralizing anguish EA rejection can cause not just in December, but all the way until April. Sometimes, the kids least able to handle rejection are the higher achieving ones, because they have been so successful until then. In your case, your entire family handled it beautifully and the story has a happy ending. But I hope your reminder inspires others to consider the emotional factor in their college application strategies. </p>

<p>Marite I think another aspect of the EA situation is that when my s applied to Y and was deferred, it gave us false hope. Everyone kept saying 'Oh my sister got deferred EA and then got in RD, don't worry.' In some respects what happened to Berurah's son was a good wake up call, albeit a hurtful one. In the end Berurah's s came out the better for the EA outcome. </p>

<p>Thank you berurah and others - This thread really needs to be renamed - something along the lines of What We've Learned or Stories from the Trenches or andi's WARNING - this could be you!.....</p>

<p>And then it needs to be a sticky. Berurah - your S outcome was eventually stupendous, but even so, your post-mortem and ideas on how to do it better are top-notch. And then each poster following you has added more insight and lessons. </p>

<p>Andi, we're pulling for you--your whole CC cyber family has prayers and incense and whatever metaphsyical things we're each embracing on your behalf! I ache for your S...I hadn't thought about living thru "choice season" and exchanging news of "where I'm going to college" and the pain that must cause you-all...</p>

<p>Rereading Berurah's original "post-mortem" (I didn't mean to be "flip" by using the term "second-guessing," Berurah...I'm not sure what I meant other than I continue to believe you & your family did everything just about perfectly right) and the comments that follow caused another thought: the GC is so important--whether s/he is a really good one or one that's not perfect for the applicant's particular path. My S's GC was a positive genius...she told us both early on that Stanford was a reach for everyone, and for S, too--that he had a shot at it but that he shouldn't get too "vested" in their decision...and she accurately "called" his chances at his four RD acceptances, too--and she was brilliant at helping him craft his list...having a good GC was a huge benefit that I didn't realize until now, after the process is almost over. Maybe it would be worth adding to the post-mortem that for those whose kids are not in a system where the GC is expert in the selective schools journey that the family, if the child wants a selective school, consider consulting someone "outside"...altho I also believe that all anyone has to do is start a thread on CC Parents Board and they'll get so much useful input that spending money "outside" just won't be required...</p>

<p>As for my S and his broken ankle...he's 3 days post-op and it's tough. He's either in considerable pain, or so loopy from the meds that control the pain that he hates how he feels. But he is improving and he will be fine. Thank the Lord we've never had to worry about permanent crippling, or life--it could be SOOO much worse!</p>

<p>We're going to try (w/the dr's blessing) to drive to U VA next weekend (one day before deadline...how's that for cutting it close!?)...right now he's torn between U VA/Echols-College Science Scholars and Cornell...I predict Cornell, but I've been wrong before and may be wrong now, too...but Cornell has been one of his two top choices consistently since last summer...his other top choice has varied over the months, as it's varying now...but Cornell has always been in the 1-2 thinking...anyway, we'll see...</p>

<p>Haven't revisited the "Betting Thread" in a few days...Berurah, how's your S's decision-making going? Last I heard it was an agonizing choice between JHU, Duke & perhaps Penn???</p>

<p>THANK YOU to everyone...this forum is so great...and Andi, whine away...you'll get nothing but love and support from us...and the waiting is the worst...even if you say exactly the same thing in 17,000 posts, we want you to have the emotional support we all feel for you--so go ahead and post 17,000 times!...hug your S from all of us, ok?</p>

6

<p>
[Quote]

Originally Posted by Berurah on her son's EA application to Yale
He spent a GREAT deal of time on this app., but more significantly, WAY TOO MUCH emotional energy on it. If we had it to do over and he still wanted to put this bid in, I would support him, BUT I would help him to approach it as I mentioned above. DO YOUR BEST, SEND IT IN, and then FORGET ALL ABOUT IT and EXPECT A REJECTION. Treat anything other than that as a most precious gift.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think this is sound, albeit distressing, advice for all applicants (EA or otherwise) to HYPSM and other super-selective schools these days. Even if you are amazingly qualified and give it your very best shot, the bleak truth is that there are so many similarly qualified applicants to these schools that the sheer numbers are simply against you .</p>

<hr>

<p>So, I'd say and I'd bet Berurah would agree w/me, the first and best step would be to find a "safety" that will make the kid happy...and then "play the lottery" for other choices after that... </p>

<p>I think that every kid should find at least 2 safeties to apply to early in the process-if they also have rolling admissions, all the better. All kids deserve to have a choice in the end, even if it's between 2 safeties. The emotional sting of match/reach rejections will be lessened if the kids get to make the last move. After relinquishing all power to the adcoms, it's great for them to be able to take some power back and have the final say in where they will attend. </p>

<p>jmmom I agree. I think Berurah's analysis is excellent. It's a great resource for next year's kids and parents. I'd just add, what has already been mentioned, that keeping that distance or emotional detachment from the application after all the work that goes into it, is easier said than done.
I'd also say that it's not all that easy to find a safety that you "love" for a kid who has always had high expectations. </p>

<p>overanxious mother Thanks so much. One of the things I want to write about when this is done is the team effort that has gone into helping me keep my sanity and in turn that of my s. Practical advice, emotional support and even some sleuthing!! lol It's incredible. </p>

<p>
[Quote]

It's not hard to feel emotionally detached BEFORE filling out the application, but I don't think there are that many people who can become involved enough to create a well written application and then still feel detached.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Andi, such wise words from such a wise woman...I couldn't have said this better. That's basically why I said that I don't know if I would have heeded my own advice before this whole thing started...you THINK you can do this with little emotional investment, but truly it IS difficult to put that much of your heart and soul into something and then just "forget" about it, which is what you NEED to do.</p>

<p>And I agree with you that in most ways, the early rejection my son received was much more merciful and easier to handle than the deferral----->rejection that your son did. False hope can be cruel. And it makes it SO difficult to just let it go and concentrate on other avenues like we were basically FORCED to do by the rejection.</p>

<p>You know how my heart is with you and your S as you work hard to set things right for next year. I think of you daily and remain so compeletely inspired by your strength (I know, I know, you don't always feel it yourself <em>lol</em>), warmth, grace, and dignity. You are an incredibly special woman, but then, I already knew that before all of this! </p>

<p>
[quote]
You don't know pain until your child is facing preparation for 3 AP exams and has no place to go to school. His friends are all celebrating their admissions or agonizing over which school to choose. No senioritis for him! Trust me, I'll be able to scare even the most confident applicants into applying to a battery of safety schools!!!!!!!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>oh, andi...I am sooooooooooo sorry. I honestly can't imagine how very difficult it must be for your sweet son right now....and then AP tests on top of it all....<em>glug</em> BIG HUGS to you both. <3</p>

<p>~b. </p>

<p>andi, as a fairly new member, I don't know hte whole story, but have seen and read enough to get the general gist. I can't believe that you would be in this position! College apps are no longer just a crap shoot - but in many cases seem as brutal and torturous as they can be! I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers, and know that your S will get into the school that is right for him - he seems so awesome! In the end, that is the only outcome possible. </p>

<p>
[Quote]

I'd also say that it's not all that easy to find a safety that you "love" for a kid who has always had high expectations.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The trick is to have high aspirations without crossing the line to high expectations. Easier said than done, but a skill that will be useful throughout life. High expectations set us up for big falls.</p>

<p>Andi,
I know what a tough time this must be for all of you. I'm a firm believer that things happen for a reason and this may be a way for your son to open his eyes and look at great opportunities he may have otherwise bypassed. </p>

<p>He may not take the path he had planned, but his journey can be just as rewarding. He is still a bright kid with a great future. Keep reminding him that. Best of luck to your son. I know you will all come out of this stronger.</p>

<p>Dear berurah and andi -- Thanks so much for sharing your Ss' college painful and good college stories. Even though this is our third going through the process, I have learned so much from the two of you.Next year, S probably will apply somewhere ED but we will NOT allow him to wait until Dec 15th to complete his other applications incl rolling &
safeties. S1 applied over 6 years ago when things were a bit eaiser.
S2 applied ED a few years ago with a specific major/passion in mind; we had to almost hit him over the head to complete his other applications since we had a great Christmas vacation planned and I warned him that if applications not done, no vacation (for me, too). I dread doing this with S3 who is all over the place -- no real passion,
tops at a few ECs, great rank and so so test scores. andi, I wish for good things for your son from the waitlist or for an exciting gap year. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The trick is to have high aspirations without crossing the line to high expectations.

[/quote]

Now that's a great way to put it!!!!!! Definitely something worth tacking up above the desk when compiling applications. Why didn't you tell me that last fall!!</p>

<p>
[Quote]

The trick is to have high aspirations without crossing the line to high expectations

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes!! Unfortunately we crossed that line with the Yale app., but refrained from doing so with all of the others</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>That's totally brilliant--the single best piece of advice I have heard in two years on CC.</p>

7

<p>This was a good idea, jmmom. Thanks for doing all of the work to sort through, cut, paste, and arrange.</p>

8

<p>It feels like replying to say thanks for doing this might muck up this thread, which is so chock full of useful thoughts and advice it should be put in a book and sold (or given away to all our cyber family, present & future)...so maybe I should think up one more factor for people to consider (lest I do in fact muck up the thread)!</p>

<p>I think this is it: My S just told me his final decision (but I'm not allowed to tell yet, as he wants two more days before sending the reply in and making it firm--can't wait to start that thread!)...and in the process he told me how much my leaving the decision to him, combined w/his access to my thoughts (via posting on CC) meant to him (my words, not his)...so my contribution to this end-of-thread (after I say thank you one more time--THANK YOU!) is: somehow or other finding the right balance between guiding our children, finding that fine line between realistic expectations and healthy risk-taking, and letting them do their own thinking and choosing is not only important to the college decision, it's a major side benefit to our relationships w/our almost adult children when we get it right (consciously or by accident). I don't think I've ever in my life felt quite so good as I did when S told me he'd found my CC post on his thinking and it made him realize what his decision should be...but that somehow I managed to behave in a way where he is quite sure he made the decision himself. It's a miracle of motherhood. And one I recommend to us all!</p>

<p>THANK YOU!!!</p>

9

<p>Great thread, thanks Jmmom for pulling it together. Ironically, I just added something this morning to my blog about "bottom up college planning" that fits in with this discussion --- if anyone is interested, they can read it at <a href="http://www.collegehunt.blogspot.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.collegehunt.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

10

<p>This has been a VERY educational thread for me, as the mother of a junior whose very early list is way too top heavy in my opinion. Her good friend also did the emotional roller coaster with the Yale EA. When deferred, he submitted boatloads of supplemental material (I have no idea what kind), and was eventually accepted (also to Cornell, Penn, and U of M, waitlisted at Harvard, rejected at Northwestern). My question to jmmom is:</p>

<p>What exactly IS the purpose of the EA round at Yale? To weed out the definite "no's" and string along the rest?</p>

11

<p>Lots of similar good advice in this thread:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=56545%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=56545&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Can we somehow combine them?</p>

12

<p>Carolyn - I didn't know you had a blog. That's great. My S (still only a freshman) is a lucky boy if you keep it up for the next few years:). When you say Stanford isn't a safety for anyone that's exactly what I said (hitting myself on the head repeatedly). We were in a sense trying to use Harvard as an EA safety, due to legacy and repeated well-meaning people telling us she would get in. The only good thing about being stupid is when it's over and the outcome through good fortune was happy and you can laugh at yourself...</p>