<p>I had written what I wanted to say, but I can't...Lent.</p>
<p>I agree that he is rude and doesn't think through things but I wouldn't put him at the level of vulgarity... But who am I to be passing judgements.</p>
<p>Will you pass this attitude-that anyone receiving finacial aid is a charity case- on to your kids? That should spice up someone's first year. I don't think much gratitude is owed to you, because if you had your way none of these charity cases would be at school . Give me an indication of the level of gratitude you believe is proper. And why are you posting so often on this thread. And probably more than a few people are offended (and amazed) by your attitude</p>
<p>If the question is pointed at me... </p>
<p>Uhmm it is not a charity case in the technical sense... I do hold to my opinion (and this is not pointed at anyone, I am replying to your accusation), though, that the schools do not need to give any aid. In spite of that, I believe financial aid is one of the best things that happened to expensive education.</p>
<p>My parents basically told me "no" to applying to schools in which financial aid was very stiff... why? Solely because the student body at a school in which many people can afford it is better than one in which few can afford it. I do not want to be sitting in a classroom where everyone is full pay. I like that diversity.</p>
<p>So not I will not pass on to my children that financial aid is a charity. I will, however, maintain my opinion that a private school can do what they very well please. Remember, they are not giving you money to give you a better education. They want many people to be able to go to their great school and they do not want money to be an issue stopping very good people from coming. That is the subtly line between aid and charity.</p>
<p>I doubt a school would offer aid to someone they do not believe had something to offer to the school in return. So in my opinion it is not pure charity, the school does have expectations that come with the aid. If you could offer aid to someone with special talents etc that could bring something to your school, why would you not? They are enriching your school.</p>
<p>"I think everyone, including those who received NO fa, should appreciate what we have. I understand that no one on this thread is being ungrateful, I would just like to point out that we should all thank the stars for the opportunity we have."</p>
<p>Well said, Principleviola! We should all thank our lucky stars!</p>
<p>Those born with the proverbial silver spoon in their mouths have a moral duty to help others, too. Its not just charity, because by helping others we help all humankind.</p>
<p>Beyond the heat it is generating, this is an interesting conversation. FA sits at the center of a number of different intentions and desires -- a democratic faith in meritocracy, an American striving for self-improvement and betterment, a pragmatic desire for special talents and skills, and a pedagogical conviction that diversity (broadly defined) plays an important role in elite education. One thing that has not been mentioned is that the most prestigious private schools in the United States see themselves as larger cultural institutions. While Exeter, Deerfield, and the like have a responsibility to themselves, they have long identified themselves as part of American culture in the way that universities such as Harvard, Princeton, Michigan, and California do. These are national institutions that play a larger role in intellectual life than simply educating a certain number of students each year. In this sense, I think FA is somewhat analogous to the voluntary contributions one can make when entering the Smithsonian, the Metropolitan Museum of Art or the Museum of Natural History. Aside from the factors mentioned above, it is the exquisite price these institutions pay for having such large, cultural aspirations.</p>
<p>hammer5, you just stated another truth that might hurt to people who think schools providing FA is just charity.</p>
<p>
The truth hurts, we have to live with it. I disagree with this "truth", though. </p>
<p>BoardingDad I agree with you... Of course FA plays a huge role in what society is today... It represents the American Dream, without FA only rich people would be able to get educated. In terms of education, though, the main role of FA is to have a broad range of people to pick and chose from.</p>
<p>This brings up another interesting question... Is, and if so how, is an elite education a catalyst for success. I believe it is... I think the reason nestles it self in more of a psychological reasoning as opposed to a concrete "this, that" one. For many people, being educated in what is widely accepted as the "top" institution gives one a lot of self confidence. Of course, the academics are unprecedented but this aspect can be made up with various enrichments...</p>
<p>Though I have had enough (if not too much?) self confidence through my career as a student, I would think that going to a top (top schools, where collectively 10,000 [assuming 10 top schools 1k students each] top students go in country of millions) would give me a confidence that I cannot otherwise reach. </p>
<p>Of course I would participate in many other activities, but I believe such confidence comes from the fact that we spend time with peers who are prodigies in their own realm. I, an aspiring violist (recreational), may meet the violist of the stars. All of this is provided because top schools, for the most part, use an egalitarian system of admissions. If you do not have money they help you... I truly believe this is a catalyst for a stellar, world class, education.</p>
<p>Your thoughts? Even though this is totally off topic...</p>
<p>PV, why do you disagree with my "truth" that schools do expect something in exchange for the FA? Do you not think they choose the strongest candidates to offer FA to?</p>
<p>Maybe... doubt it, though. It wasn't my main point.</p>
<p>I am of the old adage that if you strive to succeed, you will succeed regardless of the environment. However I do agree that the BS experience offers experiences that public never could, hence my choice to pursue an education at a BS.<br>
I can speak from experience though that everyone I know who has received FA, have been extraordinary candidates.</p>
<p>I will choose to not reply to the hateful comments and highly innaccurate assumptions made by another poster to this thread and will just hope that we can continue without the ugliness. </p>
<p>The original intent of the discussion was for families with similar financial situations to be able to compare results, especially in light of the downturn in the economy. </p>
<p>I hope any further discussion is supportive and respectful.</p>
<p>The main provocateur in this thread is someone who has posted a dozen times total, all but one of which are on this particular thread. Part of what makes an online community function is that although the names we choose are fictitious, we are not making anonymous posts. We are building trust with each other as we go.</p>
<p>Hammer - it depends on what is meant by "offering something in return". I don't believe that any of the top schools frequently discussed on this forum "expect" any thing more in return from an FA student than a FP student, other than a strong work ethic and desire to do their best, starting with academics. </p>
<p>There are schools with other protocols - work required by the FA student in exchange for study. This separatism is the antithesis of meritocracy.</p>
<p>If a survey were done of combined private/ boarding school & ivy alumni, it would find that the giving is most often more frequent and of greater magnitude to the former alma mater, such is the profound experience boarding school offers, and the fondness felt in later years.</p>
<p>Respectfully, there were no rude or hateful comments. To imply or request only “supportive and respectful” comments may be construed as only wanting agreement with your view. </p>
<p>This topic is interesting and reading different perspectives has created that interest. (People go "off topic" all the time.)</p>
<p>BS4me’s comments have validity and only ask us to confront our deeply held thoughts about FA. It's relative…We were full pay in the elementary years of a private school and were among the few who paid. We witnessed that sense of entitlement to FA. That school closed due to lack of operating funds.</p>
<p>This round, we are on the receiving end of FA and wouldn't be able to go to BS without it and yes, we are grateful...but BS4’s question challenged my thinking when he asked: If your child could work in the kitchen, be a waiter in the dining room, locker room attendee, laundry collector or housekeeping in dorm common area as partial pay for their education would you still do it? Please be honest if you can.</p>
<p>Yikes…that made me think…and that’s the purpose of good discussion.</p>
<p>I agree that once accepted, they expect all students to live up to their potential. However I believe that if a student is applying for aid, the chances of receiving it is much higher if they bring something special in return to the school; and what I mean by that is a significant hook or outstanding academics. The exception to this would be the "need blind" schools but I think it is fair to say this is true of the others. If you have two average applicants and one is FA and one is FP, I think the FP will get the nod and not the FA. Just basing this on my own experience with friends who have applied and who got FA and who did not. Those with a significant hook got offers but not those without... perhaps my circle of friends is offering a limited view...</p>
<p>I think the purpose of the OP was to determine whether there were fewer acceptances among applicants with high FA needs. I don't think Kaileigh is wrong for asking for "respectful" or "supportive" conversation. Supportive means we support each other, not that we agree with all assertions. </p>
<p>There were rude and hateful comments, I don't see how that can be denied. The provocateur took a comment by a child from another thread and accused all FA parents of having the same feelings (spitefulness) as the child:</p>
<p>"the underlying jibes are a cover for those who are either angry at their lot in life or too insecure to say how they really feel without hiding."
(I am neither angry nor insecure)</p>
<p>"those of you who are fortunate enough to receive FA should be grateful for the amount you received and not for what you didn't." (How do you know we aren't grateful?)</p>
<p>"Please be honest if you can." (Snide)</p>
<p>"does Peace out mean we are done listening to your infantile attitude and reverse elitism? How about a little gratitude to those of us who do pay your aid?" (Who pays my aid? bs4me doesn't, and no one else is calling people names, so I'll take a chance and call that rude)</p>
<p>Best of luck scrounging for more money to climb the ladder (Nice buddy! Best of luck on the whole friendship thing)</p>
<p>Well, even though I may not have endeared myself to many on this thread,,,it certainly has been insightful and interesting to look into the minds and attitudes of all players. What I have gleaned is that some are open-minded, while others closed and some children(or young adults if you will) have a deeper intelectual capacity than some adults who responded a multitude of times as well(I didn't realize we were counting posts....nice of you to keep track of mine..I knew I must be important to you!). The point is, most schools do follow an elitist system wether it be money or extraordinary talent and if you believe schools will pay for mediocracy.. you are mistaken. We all think our children are special and extraordinary...and they are..to us/ One post said I did not pay their FA which is entirely true, but someone just like me did.(If you are a lower income family from Jersey, we may have).
I am still waiting to see if some of you would allow your child to work in order to earn their keep and please be honest.
Food for thought:::: even if I can afford BS should we not be considered for FA if it is based on a spectacular resume?</p>