Well, you may have a point there. I remember some classmates from college who were the hell-bent premed types, and I’m not so sure they would have enjoyed teaching. Personally, I was not premed, and I’m glad I wasn’t. I took all the same classes, but without the pressure. I did happen to work in a school after graduation, and I learned a lot that was valuable to me once I changed direction and went to med school. So if this idea appeals to anyone (officially premed or not) I endorse it.
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People need to stay in their lanes and stop speculating on what other people would or wouldn’t do in specific situations. There’s been an outbreak of posters speaking on behalf of races, classes and entire states of the union lately.
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This entire website is based upon the premise of discussion of what college applicants might or might not do, what they might or might not expect, based upon their own specific circumstances.
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It is not for everyone on the med school path for sure. Those we have had the honor of having on our team at a high school have had experiences that will serve them well as doctors.
Those include:
- How to care (not provide healthcare, just genuinely care) for others and listen.
- Calling a parent to discuss concerns about their child, many times a parent who had negative experiences in school themselves
- gaining a better understanding of the realities of children living through trauma (and why they may not complete a teachers assignment or be able to follow a doctors recommendations)
- seeing a range of undiagnosed medical issues and how that impacts day to day functioning.
And it provides short term employment using their highly trained brains in different ways. We understand there are interviews and tests they need to take and they can talk those days off.
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I suggest we get back to the main topic, but I think @Pathnottaken ‘s idea is excellent.
This thread is really useful to help get a better understanding of what an applicant needs to be competitive for med school.
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… and should be based on personal experience (e.g., more postmortems?)
I’ll just mention this–the root word for doctor is docere which means to teach.
A large part of the job of being a doctor is to educate patients about their health conditions and how to manage them.
This is true even for physicians in “fix it and forget it” specialties such as surgery, ortho, anesthesia or EM.
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Do we get to nominate WayOutWestMom as the most helpful poster on CC?
I’ve learned so much from you. And I wish every kid (and their parents) while they are gunning for the “perfect” pre-med profile which includes everything except a sense of humanity would read your posts!
The kid of friends of ours is in med school right now… according to the local “know it alls” she punched WAY above her weight in admissions (but who would be rude enough to ask someone what their kid scored on the MCAT’s?) She worked in hospice for two years after undergrad- one year at a large teaching hospital as an aide in the pastoral department, and one year in a stand-alone in-patient hospice facility.
I have no idea what her grades and scores were, but I can only imagine what her interviews were like.
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^^ Almost anyone can become an EMT, but it takes real courage and humility (and humanity) to hold someone’s hand, to be there for them and comfort them while they are dying.
Altruism, compassion, humility, humanity-- these are all key traits med school adcomms are looking for.
Hospice work is highly valued by adcomms, so are military service, Peace Corps, TFA and AmeriCorps. Because applicants who have done those things have “walked the walk” and demonstrated that are willing to go out of their way, give their time and energy, give of themselves to help their fellow humans.
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Thank god I don’t have much personal experience with hospice- but talking to this young person opened my eyes-- it’s so much more than holding someone’s hand.
Family issues- OMG. A spouse who is in denial, kids who just want the entire ordeal done with already. Coordination of care- some family members want the patient to “be comfortable at home”, despite the fact that nobody wants to walk through what would have to happen for that to work. Dispute resolution- one child has handled the bulk of the practical care up until this point and is totally burnt out; the siblings fly in and demand to know “why aren’t we doing everything possible to make mom better?” Mom has a DNR and a sibling flips out “that’s assisted suicide” (no it’s not).
That’s why I think a med school interview with someone who has seen all of these dynamics up close- plus the hands-on care and physical presence- must be amazing.
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3.96 GPA with a full range of premed classes is quite impressive. To me this is a bit beyond what is needed or what most very strong students can pull off. 516 MCAT is very good. To me neither of this seem to be an issue at all. Youth and experience and references resulting from the experience might be issues only because the competition is so strong.
Both daughters had majors that overlapped with premed classes and therefore knew quite a few premed students. One daughter had a good friend with very similar stats (I think that the friend had the second highest GPA of any biology major in the university) who got in nowhere the first time around. The friend was pretty sure that this was due to not enough experience in a medical environment. Fortunately this was something that she could fix prior to applying again in future years.
To me the most obvious answer is just that medical school admissions is insanely competitive everywhere, and getting accepted anywhere at all in the US (or Canada) is really, really good.
My understanding is that of all students who arrive at university thinking that they are premed, most get weeded out by those tough premed classes and never apply anywhere, and of those who do apply to medical schools most never get accepted anywhere. Thus having an acceptance to a good medical school in the US already puts your daughter in a very short list of successful applicants. “Everyone who applies has a very impressive resume” is largely the point.
As someone who in my older age is getting help from a few doctors I am happy that we are choosing very strong students to get into medical school! I have certainly had some recent interactions with some truly exceptional MDs.
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Her interviewing was less than ideal because she had a bizarre method of practicing for them. I can’t even explain it but she put post-it notes everywhere around her with sayings that didn’t seem to even relate to med school. I wanted to just google med school interview questions and have her practice answering them. But she insisted on doing it her way. Then on her first interview, she got tripped up by “what can be done to improve access to healthcare?” That is one of the first questions that comes up in a search! Maybe it was her interview, because at the one school that accepted her, she felt she had aced it. They asked if she had the perseverance to become a doctor, and she said, “honestly, I don’t see myself in a world where I am not a doctor. I’m going to keep working towards that goal until something in the universe stops me.” I’m paraphrasing but you get the idea.
As for EC’s, she volunteered with a soup kitchen and with seniors from the COA. For leadership, she was an officer of her college’s EMS group and responsible for training. She was also the lead EMT and ambulance driver for her group for the town, directing other EMT’s when she was only 22. She saw everything from serious accidents to heart attack/stroke to drug overdose. It’s a shame they don’t consider the LOR from the FC, because he really saw what she is made of. As I’ve always said, she is one tough cookie. She will be an amazing MD and will definitely make the world a better place.
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Yes, many who Try Harder! do not get in.
However, it is also likely that many who could have become good physicians never got a chance because the number of spaces in medical schools is far smaller than the number of well qualified applicants.
She obviously did fine in the interviews. She got into med school. As we are all saying, this is an achievement of the highest order.
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[quote=“NoelMaple, post:32, topic:3613835”]
Maybe it was her interview, because at the one school that accepted her, she felt she had aced it.
Honestly applicants are the worst judges of their own interview performance.
They asked if she had the perseverance to become a doctor, and she said, “honestly, I don’t see myself in a world where I am not a doctor. I’m going to keep working towards that goal until something in the universe stops me.” I’m paraphrasing but you get the idea.
Cliché answer and shows a lack of self-reflection. Also doesn’t exactly answer the prompt about how she know she has the perseverance.
And the reality is you only get 2, maybe 3, cycles to earn a med school admission. Many med schools specifically say they won’t consider you if you’ve applied there once/twice before.
Hi. You mentioned that med schools typically don’t read LORs from volunteer supervisors and doctors they’ve shadowed because they typically don’t provide information med schools want about an applicant. Who do they want it from? What kind of information are they seeking?
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@NoelMaple thank you so much for starting this thread. My D is applying this year, and seeing your D’s results is eye opening.
I’m trying to keep my expectations in line with reality. I’ve heard that most applicants (or at least high stat ones?) receive secondary applications. If you get asked to interview, does anyone know what the typical conversation ratio is from interview to offer?
Guidelines for Writing a Letter of Evaluation for a Medical School Applicant
Note med schools are not looking for recommendations, they’re looking for evaluations. There’s a difference.
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Thank you for providing the guidelines. I guess I’m confused why med schools don’t read recommendations by people such as volunteer supervisors. For instance I assume the head of the fire department is responsible for all the EMTs and if the head either saw the applicant in action or had several coworkers comment on the applicant’s work, I would have assumed that would be a worthwhile recommendation. I’d assume almost all recommendations (Profs, etc) are good ones, but it’s in the details of what is said and examples given that would provide insight to the admissions committee.
I’ve heard that most applicants (or at least high stat ones?) receive secondary applications.
Except for those few med schools which pre-screen applicants, almost every applicant who submits a primary to a med school will get a secondary. In fact, some med schools send out secondaries as soon as they’re notified by AMCAS that an applicant has submitted an application for the school–which could be days or even weeks before the school actually receives the applicant’s primary application.
If you get asked to interview, does anyone know what the typical conversation ratio is from interview to offer?
This varies widely from school to school. Some schools accept more than half of those they interview; others accept fewer than 1 in 5 interviewees.
And the percentage of post interview acceptances can change from year to year at the same school.
During the 2019-2020 cycle, several schools over-enrolled their entering classes and consequently were much, much more conservative about offering acceptances for the 2020–21 cycle.
Waitlist policies also vary widely by school. Some schools waitlist most of the individuals they interview but don’t accept; others waitlist a number equivalent to about half of their class size. Some schools use ranked waitlists; most don’t.
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