<p>in medical school, do students practice certain techniques on each other before going on patient: for instance, needle insertion to draw blood?</p>
<p>can someone in med school please answer this</p>
<p>Yes .</p>
<p>BDM, while you’re on this thread, i’m sure you have answered the following question several times but i can’t seem to make a decision: is getting trained as a phlebotomist, followed by working as one a rare/unique EC? can it replace hospital volunteering?</p>
<p>i have a spot at a phlebotomy class reserved and need to take a decision</p>
<p>No. maybe.</p>
<p>care to explain why it is not a unique/rare EC?</p>
<p>Because it’s very common.</p>
<p>… and you’ll have to practice on each other in your phlebotomy class too :)</p>
<p>But like BDM said, phlebotomy is very common, just like getting your EMT cert. But like pretty much all EC’s, it is what you make of it, and you can make being a phelbotomy tech a good EC.</p>
<p>Phlebotomy is a well-respected and traditional job for pre-med and med students. Working as a phlebotomist demonstrates willingness to perform a menial task, ability to perform a basic procedure, and a tolerance for blood. </p>
<p>Pre-existing phlebotomy skills will save hours of scutwork as an intern.</p>
<p>As an aside, one of my attendings had worked as a phlebotomist on the county jail ward; it seemed an easy and straightforward job involving compliant, muscular men with large veins. One day he was taken aback when he asked what his muscular patient was mumbling under his breath – “Don’t miss, MotherF------.”</p>
<p>Where do you to go to medical school? You practice blood draws on each other??? I guess the legal department there enjoys fending off lawsuits.</p>
<p>We use mannequin arms. These are prosthetics that simulate blood draws, IV insertion, etc… In fact, most medical procedures are now simulated on these dummies now (if not exclusively then at least initially): intubations, DRE, pelvic exam, CPR, PPD, LP, ABG, etc…</p>
<p>But back to the original point, blood draws aren’t a huge part of medical school (or being a doctor for that matter). There are IV teams, there are phlebotomists, many of us end up choosing hospitals for residency where the ancillary services are so good, we never need to participate in blood draws. Yes, it’s nice to do it a couple of times but your job as the physician is not to actually get the blood but know what to do with the lab results when they get back.</p>
<p>My school uses mannequin arms as well, but ours, at least, are extremely primitive models. It’s not very close to what we do; we use them basically to get comfortable with the idea, not because they’re actually useful.</p>
<p>At my school we had to do injections, blood draws, start IV’s and do NG tube placements on each other…thankfully they didn’t make us draw Arterial Blood Gases on each other, those are probably more uncomfortable than getting an NG. On our OB/GYN rotation we have standardized patients who come in and allow medical students to do pelvic exams on them - INFINITELY more helpful than using a mannequin. Back in the days when the classes were overwhelmingly male, they practiced rectal exams on each other. That continued until the women complained they weren’t getting equal education.</p>
<p>Why in God’s name would students sue the hospital over their own educational opportunity? That doesn’t make any sense at all. </p>
<p>And while generally students, residents and doctors don’t start their own lines on the floor, you’d be surprised how often nurses come to physicians with difficult sticks. And anesthesiologists place A LOT of IV’s - from simple antecubital to pretty much anywhere they can find access (being a pediatrician, my threshold of heading towards an interosseous placement is fairly low…and I think there’s a growing movement of doing the same for adults). Further, there aren’t very many, hospitals and residency programs where staffing is minimal and the doctors do a lot of their own draws DO in fact exist.</p>
<p>Yep, still happens.</p>
<p>[IV</a> Clinic](<a href=“http://medinfo.ufl.edu/~med2008/Images/IVClinic/index.html]IV”>http://medinfo.ufl.edu/~med2008/Images/IVClinic/index.html)</p>
<p>My wife was a resident at Bellevue, and the doctors often had to do the difficult sticks. Sometimes the hardest part was getting the patient to reveal where his last surviving good vein was hiding.</p>
<p>Dental students shoot eachother up with novocaine. Phlebot. students at my hs draw blood on eachother. It’s not a huge deal</p>
<p>injections, IVs, NGs (this sounds very unpleasant) are all done on mannequins at our hospital</p>
<p>we have the standardized patients in OBGYN as well but we start on the mannequin (perhaps to stifle the laughter out of the occasional 12 yr old trapped in a 24 year old’s body)</p>
<p>Why would a student sue? Simple answer: because they can. If something goes wrong (contaminated needles? it just takes one), I guarantee you the thought has crossed many a student’s mind. Hey, if nothing else, it’ll help out with the debt load.</p>
<p>Regarding attendings starting their own IVs, yes, anesthesiologists definitely need to know how. Yes, nurses routinely ask doctors on difficult sticks (although again, the hospital I’m at has an excellent ancillary staff so we have a dedicated IV team for tough sticks. Patients have also been wheeled down to heme/onc as those nurses tend to be better than the nurses on the floors with IVs). But all in all, the majority of doctors at my hospital drew their last ABG/placed their last IV as a 3rd year medical student.</p>
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<p>Yeah, the NG’s were not pleasant. You have a lot more sympathy for patients stuck with them when you’ve had one down, even if only for 30 seconds.</p>
<p>It’s not like students are doing these unsupervised, or just thrown in without getting any instruction from qualified educators.</p>
<p>contaminated needles? Where the hell do you go to medical school? why would students get needles that don’t otherwise meet the normal safety standards of their reputable academic medical centers (retractable or covered needles, sharps bins widely available, etc)? Needlesticks happen, that’s a fact of care (I inoculated myself pretty damn well in a micro lab with purified pseudomonas culture), but I think any lawsuit over them would be laughed out the door as it’s a known risk of being in the field. If anything, a needlestick from another medical professional is less risky - medical students tending to be purveyors of a cleaner lifestyle and more cognizant of their health and all. Regardless, every hospital’s employee health will follow CDC guidelines in terms of prophylactic antibiotics and antivirals. </p>
<p>Again, it’s completely ridiculous that a student would sue over having someone at their exact same training level practice these procedures on them.</p>
<p>Let’s just say I go to school in a highly litigious area then :)</p>