<p>Here's a link to a newspaper article from Australia </p>
<p>about current research on the development of expertise. (I have the whole book reporting the latest research findings on request from my alma mater's academic library.) It's heartening to see that research suggests that most learners can do much to develop their skills--if they are willing to put in the time and effort to do so.</p>
<p>I like this quote from surgeon Atul Gawande (from this</a> book):
[quote]
Skill can be taught; tenacity cannot... There have now been many studies of elite performers -- international violinists, chess grand masters, professional ice-skaters, mathematicians, and so forth -- and the biggest difference researchers find between them and lesser performers is the cumulative amount of deliberate practice they've had. Indeed, the most important talent may be the talent for practice itself.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I like that quote too; thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>That quote is going up on the wall in my son's room where he can see it as he practices for band....</p>
<p>I just sent that to my son, a music performance major who has always said that by working hard, he can surpass those who are more talented to begin with, but aren't willing to put in the work. I think he will find that article encouraging.</p>
<p>I like the quote also. People win the nobel prize not because they are better than everyone, but because they have dedicated most of their time to fine tune their intecllectual pursuit.</p>
<p>Interesting article, thanks for posting it. I sent it to my son, at school, and now should go and practice violin instead of enjoying all the reading I'm doing on CC!</p>
<p>While I agree with this I think often the reason people practice is because they are good at something and like it.</p>
<p>I am going to be contrarian here. There is a difference between knowledge and skills. You don't need a lot of practice to cultivate knowledge. Just enough to acquire it. That's been the issue in math. A student who gets math more easily than classmates finishes his problems earlier than they. So what does he get? More of the same. That used to drive S nuts. He did not need 60 problems when he "got it" after 20 and the class had been assigned 40. He needed to move on to different topics and problem sets after he'd done the 20.
As mathmom said, however, he did math because he liked it and was good at it. So he did a lot more math than his peers; but it was not "practice" if by that one means doing the same thing over and over again.</p>
<p>However, skills require practice; there's no getting around it, whether it's writing cursive or doing surgery, or playing an instrument.</p>
<p>Oh, and let's not kid ourselves. Speaking only for myself, no amount of practice will turn me into an Einstein or Stephen Hawking. The flesh is willing but the intellect is weak.</p>
<p>I agree with mathmom that there is an interrelationship between natural ability and practice. A person will be more likely to want to practice something when his first attempts at the activity were successful enough that he can visualize becoming good at it with some additional hard work.</p>
<p>LOL. Marite that's not practice! My son liked math so we gave him books about math. Early on it was easy stuff like the Anno picture books, later (middle school) it was books written for adults. He read them. He learned more math. I consider that practicing. For a while he played chess and he got pretty good. But at some point he decided he didn't want to do the kind of practicing it would take to be great - so he stopped. Instead he spent hours learning how to program computers. He has a natural ability to program computers, but he also put thousands of hours into learning how to be good at it.</p>
<p>There is a caveat here, it is not simply practice, but high quality guided practice by expert coaches, teachers, or mentors that makes the difference. The data on expertise are quite clear in suggesting that it is indeed guided practice that separates the top performers from others, and that there is no identifiable separate quality of "talent," as much as we might like to think there is.</p>
<p>Well, and I think what Gawande is saying (and what's being said in the studies) is that tenacity and practice are the same thing in different fields.</p>
<p>As far as intellectual curiosity and talent go, I think this refers to the drive to acquire more knowledge, not merely to repetitively use knowledge one has already acquired.</p>
<p>I agree that the drive to acquire more knowledge is important. But that is not how "practice" is usually defined in schools. Most gifted students will have had the experience of finishing assignments early and being told to do more of the same rather than do new problems (which is perhaps an improvement on being told to learn how to twiddle one's thumbs as some parents have reported, or to help teach the materials to others as my S was also told). Haven't we read posts on CC about gifted children asking why they are being punished for being bright? If only teachers understood practice as it is used in this thread!</p>
<p>I also agree with idad that guided practice is important. I had my ears massacred by some neighboring pianist practicing a Chopin Polonaise and always making the same mistake. I still cringe at the memory.</p>
<p>Here's how I've seen it go with musicians:</p>
<p>From about 3 years old kids can take Suzuki. The ones who practice like crazy go gangbusters. But somewhere in middle or high school (or even sooner) the ones who have some special spark - perhaps a truly special, inherent talent - pull away from the crowd and can go on to be the truly fabulous musicians - ones that could actually get a seat in a professional orchestra.</p>
<p>That's not to say that the rest of the hardworkers can't go on to be musicians - obviously they can, and many will. It's just that they will never be the top performers. Practice only buys you so much. Sad, but true.</p>
<hr>
<p>Now, speaking of practice, let me go find my Italian flashcards... :(</p>
<p>My kid mostly was told to quietly read a book - I got more than a bit aggravaed when he read a 400 page book in two days in third grade and that was with one of his more flexible teachers. I will say that he had a couple of teachers who also let him do some computer programming projects. That was great.</p>
<p>About practice- its not just about quantity, its quality. Theres got to be a mental connection- a desire to learn, comprehend, execute. So many times when a student looks at math, or physics, or any complex high level thinking task- theyre half there. Theyre not really connecting. They may sit and read something over and over, but theyre not really getting it because theyre not actively participating in the learning process, even though they think they are. Or theyre mindlessly doing practice problems, but maybe not really thinking about the process, just going through the motions. They dont realize theyre doing this, or they just don't care because they're not interested.</p>
<p>The same goes for music- my mantra with my students is that its HOW you practice, not just how MUCH you practice. Many students do not LISTEN to themselves, or care how they sound. They just play something over and over for 30 minutes, or however long theyre supposed to practice. Mistakes and all. Or even if there arent any mistakes per se, theres no quality in the technique or dynamics. Or theres no attempt to correct. Its careless practice. </p>
<p>The same goes for athletics. Im sure there are a lot of coaches out there who can testify that you can lead the horse to water but cant make him drink. You might have a kid out there on the field or in the court for three hours, but are they really listening, hustling, putting their best out there 100% of the time? Are they taking what you say to heart and putting the advice into action? Are they coachable? Some kids arent.</p>
<p>Thats what Ive found to be the best determinant of who ends up being a really good musician- the ability to practice effectively- the connection, the desire, the ability to put advice into action.</p>
<p>
But that is not how "practice" is usually defined in schools. Most gifted students will have had the experience of finishing assignments early and being told to do more of the same rather than do new problems (which is perhaps an improvement on being told to learn how to twiddle one's thumbs as some parents have reported, or to help teach the materials to others as my S was also told).
Oh, agreed. And if the kid in question is a chatty little girl, she'll get in trouble for trying to talk with the other students when she finished early! :o (Not that, uh, I have personal experience with that one.)</p>
<p>Love the quote, just to add before practice, comes the sheer comprehension we need to have which will give our deceptively logical mind a reason to pracitce, practice, practice, practice..................with complete determination.</p>
<p>There's a sign hanging in the music studio where my children take piano lessons that says: </p>
<p>"Practice doesn't make perfect; Perfect Practice makes perfect." </p>
<p>There you have it in a nutshell!</p>
<p>I am making a copy of the article and giving it to my S! Thanks for sharing!</p>