Pratt/Trinity: The Neverending Battle

Colleges and Universities A-Z Duke University
1

<p>So what this comes down to is a measure of my love for biomedical engineering and my love for Duke University. I have been interested in biomedical engineering for a VERY long time and I had always planned to major in BME and go on to medical school. Now we all know that it is very difficult to get into medical school, so, like many other applicants, I figure that an added bonus of majoring in BME is that it gives me enough room for backup in case med school doesn't work out for me. Compared to all the other applicants to Pratt Engineering School, my stats are obviously much lower in numerical value and less math-oriented. However, my personal opinion is that I would fare better applying to Trinity, because of the nature of my resume and Trinity's lesser emphasis on math scores/ECs. But this would cost me the opportunity to major in BME and I would have to major in biology or some other major that has a limited range of jobs after having received only an undergraduate degree. </p>

<p>I lovelovelove Duke and would sacrifice almost anything to get accepted and attend there, so should I face an almost certain chance of rejection at Pratt and apply directly there, or should I go against my parents' wishes, apply for Trinity, and assuming I get in, major in something that I have less passion for like Biology?</p>

<p>Here are my stats so you guys can make a better judgment:</p>

<p>Personal Stats:
- Ethnicity: Asian (Indian) female
- State: South Carolina
- High School: Relatively competitive; sends a lot of grads to top schools
- IB Diploma Candidate
- 4.0 GPA = 3.962/SC UGP GPA: 5.063
- Rank: 11 out of 179 (top 6% I think?)</p>

<p>Test Scores
- Highest SAT: M = 690, CR = 740, W = 800 (superscore = 2230, but scores are weirdly distributed: will that hurt me?)
- SAT II's: Bio-M = 740, Lit = 740, took Math II in November
- APs: So far, World History 5, CompSci A 4, Stats 4, US History 5, Psych 5, BC Calc 3 (ouch), and English Lit 4.
- IBs: So far, French SL 6 and Psych SL 6.</p>

<p>Courses
- Senior year APs = Bio, Chem, and Physics (the science trinity, woohoo.) Will have taken 10 APs by the end of senior year
- Senior year IBs = Biology HL, Chem HL, English HL, Math Studies SL. Will have taken 6 IBs by the end of senior year.</p>

<p>Awards/Honors
-National Honor Society/Interact Club Member for two years (President for one year)
-AP Scholar with Distinction
- National French Contest National Qualifier (6th)
- Multiple Placings at Clemson Declamation (basically like a state international poetry recitation contest. Not very well known, but I've placed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in French, Japanese, and Chinese multiple times and I go every year. How important are regional contests like these?)
- National Merit Commendation
- Regional Science and Engineering Fair Participant/Winner (2nd Place: Biological Sciences)</p>

<p>Extra-Curriculars
-- I have been training in South Indian Classical (Carnatic) music for 11 years. I participated in the International Carnatic Music Festival in 2002, I performed at the TANA (Telugu Association of North America) convention in 2009, and I have performed at various concerts and functions throughout my singing career. *This probably means absolutely nothing to most of you, but in the Indian community, it's a pretty big achievement. Do you think that will count for something in the admissions process?
-- Varsity Tennis Team for three years, played Number 2 doubles. (Couldn't participate senior year due to a knee injury)
-- National Honor Society/Interact Club Member, inducted in 2008. Elected President in 2009 and I've pretty much rejuvenated the club.
-- National Forensic League (3 years): Order of Distinction
-- Academic Team member
--Drama Club Member
-- Tiger Ambassador (about 30 students chosen as volunteers to represent the school during orientations and such)
--Biology Club Officer (Senior Year)</p>

<p>Not sure what you call these...
- Governor’s School for Science and Mathematics Summer Program for Research Interns at Clemson University: a six-week research program that I was selected for last summer; I did genetic research on bitter melon with a mentor professor and published a poster on my findings.
-- LeadAmerica Medicine and Healthcare Conference (Summer '08)
-- South Carolina Youth in Government (I've been to about 6 conferences)</p>

<p>Volunteer Activities
-- National Honor Society/Interact-sponsored activities
-- Volunteer at Solaris Hospice Center
-- Volunteer at Doctor’s Care Clinic (mostly just administrative work)</p>

<p>Miscellaneous
-- Though I was born in the United States, my first language was Telugu and I recently enlisted the help of my parents in learning how to read and write in Telugu. I am also studying Mandarin Chinese.
-- I'm really active in Indian cultural activities like choreographing Indian dances for many functions and events and singing Indian classical music.</p>

<p>Thank you all so much for helping me out. I really appreciate it.</p>

2

<p>My best friend just graduated from Duke and HAD THE SAME DECISION AS YOU!!! I talked to him today and he said to pick Pratt, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!! He had many friends in BME who were in both and he mentioned how Trinity limited them from numerous opportunities in terms of research and other internships. Also, with your stats you have an amazingly good chance to get into Pratt</p>

3

<p>I’m just curious since you mentioned that you have loved BME for a long time. What picture do you see when you think of BME?</p>

4

<p>You could apply to Trinity, take a few bio classes and a couple Pratt classes (like EGR53, mandatory for all engineers) your first semester and if you like the Pratt classes, transfer at the end of the year (not very hard to do, you simply fill out a form).</p>

<p>And with regards to SBR’s comment - I don’t think anyone understands what majoring in BME at Duke entails until they try to do it lol.</p>

5

<p>You are obviously a competetive candidate for Duke and yeah for your enthusiasm for the university and for your many talents that would be positive for the campus. You may be undervaluing for instance, the importance of your talent in multiple languages that still may be untapped. Duke has great language programs. More kids make high math SATs than verbal scores.
However, I think Sen Noodles might have the smart outlook. I think you have to be very very honest with yourself about your math ability, judging by your BC Calc score and by your lower SAT in math. Perhaps you didn’t have proper instruction which happens to many kids in high school where math teachers with talent are hard to come by. Perhaps you can make up for it with Duke’s faculty…people do that every year…start to excel in something that eluded them in high school because they are at last with great teachers. I would liken this to my son’s realization when he was about 18 that he was competent on his instrument and could continue to play as an adult but that he was not gifted on it…and therefore should head off in a new direction.<br>
My son had a 760 and a 780 in math on SATs but never nailed A grades in Duke math. What he had was mastery of high school level math. On the bright side, his many friends with math talent to burn, tutored him and saved his you know what from the risk of tanking his GPA. This is because many Duke students have math talent, IMHO, that is not even approached on the SAT …SAT math is after all…very basic math. One in four Dukies has an 800 in math…just like at many other peer institutions like Hopkins. Most Dukies have stellar work ethics in BME. You are very smart and have the work ethic, but you need to dig deep to consider if you belong in engineering.<br>
If you really want to come to Duke, apply to Trinity, and take an engineering course first year. That is my advice. By the way, biology at Duke is super outstanding and you probably don’t realize the opportunities available to those who do well in it. BME is just as you imagine, a top track at Duke that leads often to good job offers and open doors to grad schools and to med schools. BME undergrad is ranked second in the nation last time I heard.<br>
That said, many paths at Duke are wonderful.</p>

6

<p>haha I love your blip about Indian classical singing.
To be honest, I think you have a better chance at Trinity, but you should ALWAYS follow your passion. So go for Pratt.
It’s when you don’t have a passion (aka me), when you have a problem.
Good luck!</p>

7

<p>SBR- Obviously I have not had firsthand experience with all aspects of BME, but from what I know about it, it seems like I would enjoy working in that field of study for undergrad. Should I do some more research on it?</p>

<p>SenatorNoodles- Is it really that easy to transfer from Trinity to Pratt? I’ve heard that it’s a long and lengthy process, but if it really is as easy as filling out a form I’m leaning towards doing that. thank you!</p>

<p>Faline2- Thank you so much for your advice. I think my lower math score are a result of my own tendencies rather than because of the teachers I’ve had. I really am good at math, I’m just not a good test-taker. I’m sure admissions has heard that story time and time again, but I feel like it’s true for me. Like I said, as long as I get into Duke and major in something that gives me enough credit to get a good job in case I don’t go to med school, I’ll be fine. If that entails applying to Trinity and weighing my options during the first year, I’ll be happy to do so.</p>

<p>spiralcloud, Stanford102: Thanks a lot! I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet, but I’m hoping to figure something out soon!</p>

8

<p>OP: that’s not saying much, I’m merely asking what sort of picture do you form in your head when you think of BME. You’d be surprised how misinformed some freshmen are about what exact BME is (and I counted myself among them). </p>

<p>Senator Noodles: I know that it’s very hard to get a sense of what BME is all about, but I find it disturbing that a significant portion of incoming BME students think BME is all about biology and medicine. Just because it’s called biomedical engineering doesn’t mean it’s not fundamentally still engineering. I would say that this misconception makes a large contribution to the decision to drop BME among my friends. </p>

<p>BTW: I’m also BME/Premed who is applying to MD/PhD programs right now.</p>

9

<p>SBR: Thank you for making the distinction. Well it would certainly make sense that BME is fundamentally engineering just from the name itself, but I guess I still overestimated the emphasis that it has on biology and medicine, like you said. Having said that, to what degree do you think someone like me, having lower math scores and more of a gravitation towards biology, can excel in BME?</p>

10

<p>Transfer info about Trinity <–> Pratt: [Duke</a> University | Trinity College of Arts & Sciences : Academic requirements](<a href=“http://trinity.duke.edu/academic-requirements?p=transfer-to-from-pratt-school-of-engineering]Duke”>http://trinity.duke.edu/academic-requirements?p=transfer-to-from-pratt-school-of-engineering)</p>

<p>Yeah, that was my point about BME, having done it for the past 2 yrs. I came in expecting it to be all about tissue-engineering and prosthetics, and while a couple classes are, the majority are about electric circuits, LaPlace Transforms, fourier transforms, etc., with very little of the “biomedical” i was imagining until senior year. how’s your ability with electricity and upper-level math, SPRI2010? because that’s more relevant to BME than biology is.</p>

11

<p>The thing that caught me by surprise was the disconnect between the undergrad BME curriculum and the research that many BME faculty (include my PI) are doing. And there are reasons for that. </p>

<p>BME is an amalgamation of many fields and to even say that you can cover the entire spectrum in the 4 years of an undergrad would be ludicrous. Because of that, Duke’s BME has been for many years focused on its strengths which happened to lie more to the medical instrumentation side (hence all that electronics). But I think the administration has recognized in recent years that the department is diversifying in terms of research and the curriculum has been somewhat adapted to reflect that (with the different upper-level “tracks”). But that said, depending on the area of research you go into, you might not actually feel that your classes are very relevant until junior or senior years. That just goes back to my point earlier that BME is still engineering and you need that quantitative background even if your research interests veer more towards the qualitative fields. </p>

<p>In summary, the key to succeeding if you are finding yourself asking why you are taking some classes is to understand their necessity and to just tough it out. Many people are caught unawares by this and leave the BME program because they were prepared to handle its rigors. That’s why I usually ask if BME applicants have any idea what they are getting into to try to spare them from having to see their GPA tank because they didn’t anticipate having to take multivariable/linear algebra/diff eq/electronics etc etc.</p>

12

<p>SPRI2010, you have a pretty decent shot of getting into Duke. Your SATs are in the range for a duke acceptance and some of your APs seem good. You will need a strong essay to get into Duke. </p>

<p>You are probably a better candidate for Trinity just because you don’t seem to have the numbers going for you. As you’ve heard from the other posts, you can always transfer to Pratt though. </p>

<p>Does anyone have acceptance rates broken down between pratt and trinity?</p>

13

<p>Don’t think they’re posted anywhere, but…
99.9999999% from Pratt to Trinity. Because they’d rather you transfer than fail out of Duke =P</p>

<p>Probably around the same for Trinity to Pratt - usually the only people who apply have taken a few engineering classes, are confident they want to do it, and have the grades for it. There aren’t many Trinity to Pratt transfers - I only know 2 as compared to the 30ish I know for Pratt to Trinity.</p>

14

<p>SBR and SenatorNoodles: Thanks for your insight on this topic. I think I will apply to Trinity and see what happens after that, because my interests definitely lie more on the biology/ life science side than engineering/physics.</p>