<p>I met with two pre-med advisors before Spring Break (once to discuss classes, and once to get my schedule approved). I am planning on taking O Chem next year, along with upper level Bio courses to supplement my AP credit (Cell Biology and Genetics). However, when I asked about General Chem and Physics, since I already have AP credit for these as well, both advisors said that if I was comfortable with the material I didn't need to take them, and mentioned nothing about supplementing with higher level courses. I'm confused now, because a lot of the things I've read online state that you shouldn't accept AP credit in science courses if you aren't planning to supplement, which is contradictory to what I heard from both advisors. Does anyone have thoughts on this?</p>
<p>i would listen to your pre-med advisors before I listen to anybody else. they have history of kids applying from your UG, they should know the best. What is recommended at one UG might not be applicable to another.</p>
<p>They are wrong. You really should retake the general physics and if you aren’t interested in additional chem classes then retake those as well. Be advised, however, there are a small number of schools that do not accept replacement credit at all (this may not be true anymore, vanderbilt now accepts replacement credits and that was my former go to example).</p>
<p>D1 went straight to OChem and then supplemented with a year of BioChem+lab. She wasn’t happy doing this and counseled D2 to not follow the same route, to instead not take AP Chem credit (she didn’t even take the test since it was sr year) and start with Gen Chem.</p>
<p>From the Med school websites I’ve looked at, at many you are going to have to supplement with another year of higher Chem if you start with OChem. While D2 assures me that her OChem and Biochem will fulfill requirements for all Med schools (according to her premed advisors), I wonder about a school like Mayo that states:</p>
<p>[Prerequisites</a> - Mayo Medical School - Mayo Clinic](<a href=“http://www.mayo.edu/mms/programs/md/admissions/prerequisites]Prerequisites”>Prerequisites and Requirements - M.D. Program - Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine - Mayo Clinic College of Medicine & Science)</p>
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<p>They don’t say whether or not they accept AP credit in lieu of the inorganic chem, which would solve the problem.</p>
<p>Here is what the GT premed advisors tell UGs about AP credit:</p>
<p>[AP</a> Credits - Pre-Medical Studies at Georgetown - Georgetown College](<a href=“http://premed.georgetown.edu/courses/apcredits/]AP”>http://premed.georgetown.edu/courses/apcredits/)</p>
<p>This is older, 2007, from Darthmouth via CU:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~nss/nav/pages/school/Med%20School%20Course%20Reqs/MedSchAP08.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~nss/nav/pages/school/Med%20School%20Course%20Reqs/MedSchAP08.pdf</a></p>
<p>entomom, I think your D1 should be fine regarding her chemistry requirement, for most med schools at least.</p>
<p>DS had Gen. Chem (118a) with lab, two orgo semesters, two orgo labs, one biochem semester, and one biochem lab. No med school he applied to complained about it. (He did not apply to Mayo – rumored that it had not been very friendly to the college DS attends for the past several years, and GT – too many applicants. Dartmough did not complain.)</p>
<p>At one time, he was tempting to take inorganic chem due to the same concern your D1 has. He did not in the end as AP chem credits can be used at our state med schools. (He almost did not want to apply to any AMCAS schools at that time, as he thought he would head back to his home state in the end anyway.)</p>
<p>I heard there is too much “writing” in the non-general-chemistry inorganic class. (They trained the perspective students to write research papers or maybe also grant proposals which any PhD students will eventually do for their professor.) But DS heard the WR credit (writing credit) for this inorganic course is supposed to be a joke, as the student does not have enough WR credit (by taking that class alone – half a WR credit) to fulfill his/her writing skill general edication requirement and he still needs to take another real writing class. This was what I heard at that time – do not know whether it is true though. Maybe the chemistry department just do not want premeds to be in such a class. LOL. (I remember that one CCer here once made such a joke: I am a premed so I am ashamed while I am walking on campus…)</p>
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<p>Arghh! I think I’m going to make it a personal mission to get that page taken down. It is totally outdated and riddled with errors. </p>
<p>This one is the “gold standard”, …</p>
<p><a href=“Undergraduate Resources”>Undergraduate Resources;
<p>Thanks for the info mcat2, I hope she doesn’t run into any requirement snafus. Since she didn’t major in a science, she has only the absolute minimum requirements.</p>
<p>Not sure if Mayo will make the final list; I didn’t realize they don’t show much love to that school ;).</p>
<p>How pre-med advisors at particular UG could be worng? It is their job to place as many applicants from their UG into Med. Schools, it is refleciton of their good or bad performance in their positions. What would push them to provide incorrect information to pre-med? They have experience with very many, they must know what they are talking about, otherwise they are gone, fired. The number of successful Grad./Med./Law applicants determines some aspects of presitge and reputation of specific UG.</p>
<p>There are several exceptions, but from what I’ve seen, many medical schools accept AP credit (including the schools I’m interested in). So is supplementing with higher level courses an issue of being competitive for admissions? Is someone at a disadvantage because they didn’t repeat lower-level science courses, even if they score well on the MCAT, possibly better than someone who did retake those courses?</p>
<p>It just seems counterintuitive to me that I should retake physics or general chemistry when I feel very comfortable with the material, but do not want to take an upper-division physics course. If I apply to schools that do accept AP credit, and supplement my biology credit and possibly a semester of my chemistry credit with upper level courses, am I at a disadvantage as compared to people who just took all the most basic classes?</p>
<p>* However, when I asked about General Chem and Physics, since I already have AP credit for these as well, both advisors said that if I was comfortable with the material I didn’t need to take them, and mentioned nothing about supplementing with higher level courses.*</p>
<p>I’m wondering if they were just talking about what you’d be signing up for next year (Orgo I and II) and weren’t discussing what’s needed later??? I would email the director of advising for the “last word”. </p>
<p>I’m thinking that you may want to retake the Physics, unless that is an AP that is accepted “as is” without any additional coursework???</p>
<p>My son didn’t take AP physics, so he took 2 semesters of Physics w/ Cal. He did skip the Bios and Chems, but took higher levels instead.</p>
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It is not important whether you feel very comfortable or not. It is important whether you demonstrate (and med schools believe) that you are better than, say, most premeds at your college (not the pool of high schoolers who pass the AP class). This is the central point of the “premed game” and this is why being a successful premed is hard for SOME students.</p>
<p>If you think in the following way, it would not be counterintuitive.</p>
<p>Because med schools have too many qualified applicants, they need every means to screen out applicants. Not taking all prereqs IN COLLEGE (or not taking “real” college courses at a college, taught by a college professor, as a high schooler) is one of their screening methods.</p>
<p>More importantly, why do med schools look down upon the AP credits? Just look at the pool of high schoolers who take the AP class. They are not as competitive as most premeds in college, as least med schools think so. Then, look at the teacher who teaches the AP class. It is well-known fact that many science teachers who teach at the secondary schools are not as qualified as the real professor at the college level, and their grading standard is not as “brutal” as those professors who teach the college level prereq courses – Like it or not, med schools may think in this way.</p>
<p>Also, most know how easy it is to score a 4 or even 5 on many AP tests! Or put it in this way: at many competitive colleges, almost all freshmen who take the beginning science class has had AP 5 on the same subject. But only, say. 20-25 percents may get an A by the end of the class. Med schools want to see whether you are among the top 20-25 per cents of those who had an AP 5 while in high school. Actually some especially picky med schools may even want to see that you take the science classes that every science student needs to take, because the grading standard of some upper-level science classes may not always the same if it is an elective.</p>
<p>plumazul, thanks for the current reference; that’s why I noted the date on the D document.</p>
<p>Miami, maybe I’m just jaded, but I’ve run into a lot of advisors in a lot of different capacities who don’t do a very good job at even the basics, and they keep doing the same lousy job for years and nobody seems to notice or care. I try to teach my kids to seek advice but also to fact check and use other resources (like the OP is doing :)) on their own as they are the ones who will deal with the consequences.</p>
<p>Chalaque, I think one reason for not counting on AP credit and taking supplemental higher level coursework is because you don’t always know exactly which schools you will be applying to due to variables like MCAT score, change in interest, new information, etc. And so it’s difficult to know what the specific requirements will be for the schools that make your final list. Either retaking the lower level courses or supplementing assures that four years down the line, all the boxes will be checked for all schools.</p>
<p>entomom,
I was talking specifically about pre-med advising, not any type of advising in general, which I rarely consider myself. Maybe pre-med advising was just vey good at D’s UG, I just do not see any way for them not to advise with the high acceptance rate in mind. D’s advising was very good because she was ahead of the most even here on CC when we shared timing of application. It is very helpful for Med. School application process to have a great pre-med advising/comittee.<br>
BTW, one thing to consider, it is very helpful for MCAT to have higher level Bio classes any way. D. did not skip her first Bio despite of 5 on AP, it was almost not possible at her UG as other classes were based on this class that went thru AP material in first 2 weeks. But she took a lot of higher level Bio. She said that none of material from first Bio is on MCAT, you need higher level Bio classes for MCAT.</p>
<p>What I meant to say is that I don’t think premed advising is that different from any other kind of advising, some are better than others.</p>
<p>^^I agree. Pre med advising can be pretty hit or miss. Advisors might be familiar with a couple dozen or so of schools where graduates of that school typically apply, but usually aren’t familiar with med schools in a different area of the country. </p>
<p>Found this to be true of both kiddos’ undergrads.</p>
<p>Well. D. listened very closely to her pre-med advisor. She had to completely change her senior year schedule and even dropped one of her minors because pre-med advisor informed her that one of Med. Schools that she has already applied had added couple classes to thier requirements. She was accepted later on to this school, but ended up attending a different one. Pre-med advisor also made sure that she could have these classes even though she registered late. He was very helpful all the way, very supportive.
We all have different experiences so our advise is different.</p>
<p>^^I agree. Pre med advising can be pretty hit or miss. Advisors might be familiar with a couple dozen or so of schools where graduates of that school typically apply, but usually aren’t familiar with med schools in a different area of the country. </p>
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<p>I agree…and it can depend on WHO you speak to within an advising team. If the advisor is new to advising, they may not know all the details.</p>
<p>Schools are in an odd spot. During frosh year, schools can have HUNDREDS of students claiming to be pre-med. So, schools often stick their newest pre-med advisors into the roles of advising those kids because 75% will never apply to med school. Schools often save their best advisors for upper-division students.</p>