Pre-Med and Pre-Law?

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>I am still not sure which career path I want to take. Medicine has been something that I've wanted to pursue since the beginning of high school, and a few weeks ago I received an invitation to interview for my dream BS/MD program. Recently, however, I've been debating about whether I should pursue the law profession. Although I've had more experience with the sciences, I feel that I would also enjoy being a lawyer. There are pros and cons to both professions, and my choice would be largely swayed by the societal changes that are happening around us. My parents are also trying to decide which of these careers is the best for me.</p>

<p>I like to keep my options open, so I was thinking about being both a pre-law and a pre-med (is that even possible?) - majoring in something humanities-related (or even double majoring in math or science) while being on a pre-med track. Having been an extremely hard worker my whole life, I am confident that I can manage. I got a likely letter from Wellesley College, and they have great international relations and economics programs as well as a strong science department. I feel like Wellesley would be a wonderful place for me to explore my options and really build a solid foundation, regardless of which choice I eventually make.</p>

<p>The extracurricular side of things is what conflicts me. Although I have done minimal research on law school admissions, I know that both medical school and law school look well on research. However, the nature of the research is different. The former requires scientific or clinical research while the latter requires library research.</p>

<p>Basically, my question is, has anyone had this issue before? What advice do you have on how I can be both a pre-law and pre-med? How do I go about doing the ECs necessary for both professional schools?</p>

2

<p>From what I have heard about law school, admissions is mainly based on your GPA and LSAT so being pre-law wouldn’t really be that difficult to add onto being pre-med. Although, I would recommend that you get exposure to the law field to make sure that’s the path you really want to go down.</p>

<p>It’s okay if you don’t know what job you’d like to have yet. Make sure you explore both options career-wise to make sure you understand what it takes to be a doctor or a lawyer and what the profession is really about before you decide. They are vastly different careers and both are very expensive undertakings, so take some time to make sure you’re making the right choice for you.</p>

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<p>I take from this post that you are still in high school? If so, be aware that your interests can change greatly over your college experience. You may leave wanting something totally different than on entering. With that in mind, it’s generally a good idea not to have a razor-sharp focus on any particular grad school unless you are really, really sure. </p>

<p>The above notwithstanding, you are in luck: there is no such thing as “pre-law.” Some colleges offer so-called pre-law majors, but these are without exception scams designed to separate students from their money. Law schools do not care at all about your undergrad major; they care only for your GPA. A 4.0 in basket-weaving has the edge over the 3.9 electrical engineer. The advantage of this is that so long as you keep your grades up you can pursue medicine all the way to graduation, then change your mind and go to law school (I know people like this). The downside is that the heavy science curriculum of pre-med (a real thing) tends to push down GPAs. So long as you keep your GPA up though, you can keep options open all the way through.</p>

<p>Also, law schools do not care about research. Whoever told you that has no idea what they’re talking about.</p>

<p>The very best thing you can do to narrow your options is to actually go learn what the day-to-day life of people in those fields is like. Intern during the school year at a firm/DA’s office/PD’s office/agency to learn about law, and at wherever the medical people go (I’m not a medical person) to learn about that. There’s nothing like hands-on experience for learning what you really like.</p>

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<p>There are JD/MD programs available if you fulfill pre-law and pre-med requirements and go the traditional route of medicine. University of Miami actually has that program available for entering medical students. </p>

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<p>BTW, medical schools don’t care what you major in. I am a Double major in French and Spanish and I am also pre-med. It may take an additional year or semester to fit it all in but it IS POSSIBLE. As long as you fulfill the pre-reqs for both programs respectively, you will be fine. </p>

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<p>First, congratulations on getting the interview for the BS/MD program; those are very tough to come by. I know you’re young, but I’d recommend that you do a lot of research, as law and medicine are two very different fields. The coursework is different, the programs of study are different-and the job prospects are hugely different. Frankly, I’d recommend putting your energy into the BS/MD interview you’ve got coming up; getting accepted into that program would be a great accomplishment.
But I’d first ask-why do I want to be a lawyer? Do I actually know what lawyers do? </p>

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<p>Fortunately for you, law schools and med schools want to see the exact same thing from an applicant: a high GPA and high test scores. There are eight classes you will need to take to fulfill the premed track, but they can be taken after graduation as a post-bac. Major is irrelevant, except on the margins (medical schools see a lot of bio majors and sometimes like something different; law schools see a lot of poli sci majors and sometimes want something different.)</p>

<p>IR and Econ would leave you well positioned for either track, or an entirely different one. Just enjoy college, keep your debt load low and your grades high, and you will have options when you graduate.</p>

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<p>Can’t agree with the above advice; while both law and medical schools are looking for high GPA and test scores, law schools are essentially only looking at those two numbers(absent something truly extraordinary); it’s completely different for medical schools. Med schools, in addition to GPA/MCAT, look closely at extracurriculars, physician shadowing, research, and other things law schools ignore. It isn’t as simple as taking the 8 required courses(and some medical schools require more than 8); if you don’t have the other things, your application won’t get much consideration. So while it’s possible to apply to law school on the strength of GPA/LSAT only, you won’t get much consideration from medical schools w/o the extras.</p>

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<p>How hard is it to get those extras after graduation? How much would they really influence your major during college?</p>

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<p>It’s pretty clear that the OP has no idea what she wants to do for a career. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.</p>

<p>I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked this question by high school students. Reading between the lines, this is what they are saying: “I equate work-related success with becoming a physician or a lawyer. How can I best position myself for either of those two career paths?” My answer to them is a variation of the following: “Go out there and explore. Find out what you love to study/do. Don’t be restricted by the prerequisites for grad school. Figure out what makes you happy and be the best at it.”</p>

<p>Interests change. The typical college student changes his major at least once. Wellesley is a wonderful school that offers so much beyond a pre-med/pre-law track. I hope that the OP takes advantage of the educational opportunities there.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your insight! While I’m still not sure which profession I like the most, my parents (my dad at least) are now leaning heavily towards medicine (after interviewing at a med school for the program). I plan on shadowing a primary care physician this summer to really get an idea of what it’s like to be a doctor.</p>

<p>Basically, law schools only look at grades and LSAT scores. But medical schools care about those things as well as medical experiences. </p>

<p>Another thing, a big reason for why my dad prefers that I go the medical route is because he’s convinced that once I’m out of medical school, I’ll pretty much be set and will become a physician one way or another. Just go through residency and that’s pretty much it. </p>

<p>But for lawyers it’s much more difficult? And the law school rankings matter more, I think? Isn’t it harder in general for law school graduates to find a job? They have to work several years in positions pretty low in the hierarchy, right? Basically, it’s hard for them to actually become a “lawyer” the way we think lawyers are, correct me if I’m wrong.</p>

<p>What steps would I actually have to take after going to law school?</p>

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<ol>
<li> Aries, you stated that both law and medical schools want the same exact thing-and that just isn’t accurate. To be a successful medical school applicant, you have to have the “extras”-they aren’t optional. The extras won’t influence your major-at all-but will have a huge effect on whether your application is going to be successful or not to medical school.</li>
<li>Absentions: Regarding the medical school process after graduation, there’s a whole forum of experts here at CC, which I believe you have visited. Suffice to say that right now, a newly graduated U.S. medical school student is pretty much guaranteed a job(also known as residency); it may not be the desired specialty/geographic location, etc but it’s a job. This is true for all US medical school graduates.
Law school isn’t the same. Whether or not you get a job at all after graduation(and passing the bar) will depend heavily on where you went to school, and how well you did. Visit law school transparency; they’ve compiled employment numbers.
Keep in mind these are professional schools; the whole point of attending is to get a job upon graduation. If you take the usual undergraduate track, you’ll have several years to decide what’s for you.</li>
</ol>

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<p>@crankyoldman
Thanks so much! I’ll be sure to check out the resources you mentioned!</p>

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<p>Cranky: insofar as grades and majors are concerned, medical schools and law schools do look for the same things. The OP isn’t looking at applying to be a PhD in astrophysics, wherein course work would matter quite a bit. She wants medicine or law; high grades and test scores are what is important. </p>

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<p>Aries, we can go back and forth ad infinitum, but medical and law schools do not look at the same exact things. Both look at GPA/Standardized test scores-and that’s where the similarity ends. The CW is that the only thing law schools care about-absent the truly extraordinary, like an Olympic medal-would be GPA/LSAT.
That just isn’t true for medical schools-a solid application, in addition to GPA/MCAT, needs the extras-the ECs/shadowing/research; none of those are needed for law school.<br>
And contrary to your view, while major doesn’t matter much for either, coursework does matter for medical schools. Some require different math/stats courses, some require certain humanities classes. And with the changes to the MCAT, applicants will need to pay a lot more attention to the humanities. I’d recommend that you look at a few medical school admissions websites; e.g. check out Penn State-quite a few more than 8 classes needed.
We’re clearly not going to agree, so don’t take my word for it-go to the CC forum for pre-med, or student doctor network. The process of applying to these schools is very different, and if OP is contemplating an application to medical schools, she’ll need to start with the extras freshman year.</p>

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<p>Cranky, our biggest disagreement is in your last paragraph. A student who takes classes that she enjoys, earns high grades, and is somewhat involved in her community will be well-positioned to apply to medical school if she decides to do that.</p>

<p>My alma mater had many people who went for post-bac courses to get their med school requirements. Last I checked, medical schools have nothing against students who apply after age 22 because they took time to figure out what they want in life. A student who earned high grades during college (and at a school like Wellesley) is well-positioned to start that process after graduation.</p>

<p>Of course we aren’t going to agree - you see applying to medical school as something that only college students do. Problematically, you’re wrong: <a href=“HugeDomains.com”>HugeDomains.com; (Naturally, most people don’t want to start med school - a decade long training process - late in life, but 24 or 25 is still a few years out of college.)</p>

<p>Please explain what stops a 22-year-old from working in a hospital, taking post-bac courses, getting involved in her community, and successfully applying to medical school. But that might involve you cutting the patronising crap and world-weary condescension…</p>

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<p>Just for fun (because smacking down your bs is actually entertaining): Penn State’s admissions requirements are here:
<a href=“https://www2.med.psu.edu/mdadmissions/admissions/application-process/admissions-requirements/”>https://www2.med.psu.edu/mdadmissions/admissions/application-process/admissions-requirements/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Pray tell, how on earth could you obtain a bachelor’s degree without having taken most of those courses? If you didn’t take the science classes because you were a humanities/social sciences major, then you would have taken English, behavioural sciences, and humanities. Most colleges require mathematics, and you can’t get through the physics without it. AP courses also count towards the requirements! </p>

<p>Despite the list of requirements, it basically amounts to “Please get a bachelor’s degree and take these science courses. Make sure that your courses reflect breadth and depth.” </p>

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<p>Please, don’t sugarcoat it for me Aries; tell me how your really feel.</p>

<p>You get a bit hostile when someone disagrees with you-“smacking down your bs is actually entertaining”-odd, but I don’t feel “smacked”- and “But that might involve you cutting the patronising crap and world-weary condescension…” I am happy to keep you entertained, but unfortunately I may confuse you with the facts about the differences between law and medical school applications.</p>

<p>It’s clear having a lots of opinions, and being an expert at everything(approaching 5000 posts, I see-(and by the way, did Snakes on a Plane meet your expectations?), does not necessarily equate to giving good advice. It also helps to constantly change that advice, as “ There are eight classes you will need to take to fulfill the premed track” becomes “Despite the list of requirements, it basically amounts to “Please get a bachelor’s degree and take these science courses. Make sure that your courses reflect breadth and depth.” So you’d now agree that a student needs more than those eight classes you mentioned?</p>

<p>It is abundantly clear that you have no personal experience with the process of applying to medical school. So while you’ve got time to smack me down, take a few minutes to read the CC posts on medical school applications: Ask them if an applicant will be successful if “somewhat involved in her community.” If a person wants to get into medical school, then s/he needs the extras. It is pellucid that medical schools and law schools don’t look for “exactly” the same thing, and to advise anyone of that is just incorrect.</p>

<p>And what does the median age of medical students have to do with anything? OP doesn’t ask about post-bac programs, or even suggest that she’s planning on any post-bachelor’s work. </p>

<p>Right now, you’re advising a student in high school to plan on doing post-bac work in order to get into medical school. Believe it or not, there are high school students who don’t want to do post-bac work unless absolutely necessary and many just can’t afford it. Four years of college is expensive enough without planning, even before freshman year, to be on the 5 or 6 year plan. OP has asked, basically, if she should attend Wellesley (or if accepted, the BS/MD program at another unnamed school). Her specific concern is about “getting the ECs”; well the CW is that no ECs are needed for law school applications, so the best plan, in order to keep her options open and still have the opportunity to finish in four years is focus on the medical school course work and required extras(ECs/ shadowing/research, etc). </p>