Pre-Medicine at UChicago

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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<p>Hi everyone,
I know there's plenty of other discussion threads on pre-med at UofC, but many of them seem outdated or were bogged down with tangential debate, so I started this one to introduce a fresher perspective. There's been a lot of discussion in the last couple of years on UChicago's trend in its student body, who it's attracting, and the increased focus on pre-professionalism. I'd first like to point out that at one point, pre-med at UChicago was often (I'm not saying everyone says this) seen in a negative light due to grade deflation and rumors that an unusually large amount of premed students just don't quite make it to the end of the road and into med school.</p>

<p>As a prospective premed student recently admitted EA, I decided to investigate for myself. So I'd like to share with all of you an email from the Director of Careers in Health Professions. I found it insightful for those of you considering UChicago for pre-med. If you guys want to know the questions I asked her, I'll post them, but the answer seems pretty clear without knowing what I asked.</p>

<p>*"It is great to hear that you are interested in becoming a physician, and the questions you ask are good ones. Let me start by introducing myself just a bit--I began my job as the director of the health professions program in early September. I started my career as the assistant director for health professions advising at Yale University, then spent six years as the director of admissions for the Pritzker School of Medicine here at UChicago. For the past two years I worked in our Career Advancement office, which gave me a truly wonderful and broad-reaching understanding of the undergraduate experience here as well as the myriad resources that are available on campus and throughout the community to benefit our students. I am thrilled to have the opportunity to incorporate all of my past experiences to continue to build on our already successful premed program.</p>

<p>To answer your questions specifically...we have approximately 95-100 students and alumni applying to medical school through our office each year. In the past few years, our acceptance rate has been in the 70-75% range, which is on par with many of our peer institutions. Naturally, though, I would like that number to rise even higher, and hope to implement new programs and strategies to aid in that goal. As you likely know, the University of Chicago is not a school that employs the use of grade inflation. Our premedical students as a group have an average GPA in the 3.4-3.5 range. Although that is a bit lower than the premed average at peer institutions, the medical school admissions offices around the country know that UChicago and a handful of other schools do not have grade inflation, and adjust their expectations accordingly. So whereas a medical school may look for a 3.6 or 3.7 GPA among the majority of their applicants, they expect to see a 3.4 or 3.5 as a strongly competitive GPA from UChicago. We do have premed students who are successful at gaining shadowing experiences at our medical center, largely through the individual students taking the initiative to contact physicians and ask for the opportunity. A shadowing program is something I see as a key experience for our premeds and am actively working on building a structured shadowing program which will launch in the fall of 2013. In fact, I just met yesterday with several physicians who are eager to take on students and will be helping me to finalize the development of the program.</p>

<p>Although I and my fellow health professions advisers are focused on all of the individual steps necessary to build a successful medical school application, our overarching goal is to do all that we can to maintain a happy and supportive environment for our premedical students. We begin talking with you right away during orientation week, host multiple programs and events throughout the year, and offer individual advising appointments to talk through any of the questions you may have along the way. Being a premed can sometimes feel a bit more stressful than being a typical college student, and we are here to support you through those challenging times and also to celebrate in your successes!" *</p>

<p>And if any of you have questions, the staff at UChicago focused on pre-professional factors are really helpful. Feel free to contact them. I'm also happy to discuss with anyone that may have questions for me.
Thanks!</p>

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<p>Just to add more information to this thread. Here is what I wrote on another thread. One part of the post is updated (bold). At the end of this academic year, I will write a guide that provides some strategies for future pre-meds.</p>

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<p>Hello I am a current Chicago undergrad who is also a premed student. All the classes offered here are hard but all premed classes are anyway, and kids at MIT or Cornell are facing the same grade deflation we are here in Chicago. I wouldn’t worry too much about GPA I have managed to keep mine pretty high here and so have many of my fellow premeds and I am nowhere near the smartest kid here. What I’m trying to say is no matter where you go premed is hard. You will have to work hard. If you really liked the U of C come here and work hard here. If you really like Brown go there and work hard there. Going to one school or another will not change your GPA or chances of getting into med school that much–your hard work will. Every 3.9 GPA is earned. </p>

<p>Regarding pre-professionalism. Believe it or not its become big in chicago. It is no longer frowned upon and almost everyone (especially those pesky econ majors) has the bug. Opportunities abound here for internships and lab work. In my first year I got two jobs, one in the Hospital directly working with patients and another in a neuroscience lab. I was able to manage both jobs while still doing well in my classes though it did kill alot of my social interactions. While we are on the subject of social life (and you should be interested in the less academic aspects of the university as well, you might be spending four years of your life here!) lets talk about it. Frats are small but powerful forces on campus for at least your first two years. They throw most of the partys which typically happen only on friday and saturday nights. This is not a party school but on fridays and saturdays people get drunk and have fun. </p>

<p>The people here are nice. This is important because it also means that the premeds are not as cut-throaty as they are at hopkins or Cornell. In my classes we all work together through the hard problems and I am really good friends with all my fellow premeds. The atmosphere is not depressing its more like “hey we’re all gonna learn this stuff cause its actually kinda cool.”</p>

<p>CCIHP is the health advising program you’ll get if you do end up coming here and these people are the nicest kindest most helpful people in the world. They are fantastic and will help you with anything from getting a hospital job to helping you decide what tie you wear to your first med school interviews. You will get an individual health advisor who will alert you to health opportunities, test dates and course scheduling. They are really nice and personal even though their offices are a pain to get to. (its like 5 flights of stairs) </p>

<p>This is a really wonderful university that I am really happy I attend. Don’t be scared away by the work. Its hard sometimes it gets really really hard but it will prepare you for med school which is much worse, and make you a better thinker.</p>

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<p>Poplicola and sheltie13, thank you so much for the invaluable information! It’s really, really nice to have current students and recent alum contribute. It’s hard to find information about the campus feel itself on other places. So nice to have you here.</p>

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<p>one of the undergrad premed clubs holds quarterly lunches with the Pritzker students</p>

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<p>Here’s something to think about, for every college to which you are applying: You want to know how aggressive the college is about weeding out marginal medical school applicants. If a college wants to improve its medical school acceptance rate, there are two ways to do it. The college can work hard and devote resources to improving its pre-meds’ performance on the MCAT and to making certain they all have great research experience. Or, it can make certain that the marginal applicants, the ones with the worse chances of acceptance, don’t apply in the first place. Which do you think is easier, more cost-effective, and more certain to attain its goal in a short time-span?</p>

<p>In the past, CCIHP has come in for criticism in being aggressive in counseling students OUT of thinking about medical school. I don’t know if that’s still true or not.</p>

<p>Compare Yale’s medical school application statistics with Chicago’s. Yale has about 150 seniors and graduates applying to medical school per year, and about a 90% acceptance rate, so about 135 people accepted to medical school. Yale’s class size is about 1,300, so that’s a little more than 10% of a class accepted at medical school per year (not all from the same class, of course, but it evens out like that over time). Chicago has 95-100 seniors and graduates applying each year, according to the e-mail above, with a 75%+ admission rate, so call it 76 admitted somewhere. That’s out of a class of 1,400+, so it’s a little more than 5% of the class.</p>

<p>If you believe – and I think it’s plausible – that a similar percentage of kids start at Yale and Chicago with the idea that they may want to go to medical school, the ones at Yale have almost twice as good a chance at realizing their dream. The difference between admission rates is the less important reason for that. If Chicago had Yale’s admission rate, but nothing else changed, Chicago’s %-of-class admission to medical school would go up to about 6%, compared to Yale’s 10%. </p>

<p>The point of this isn’t that Yale is wonderful and Chicago awful. Every college, intentionally or not, weeds out a lot of pre-meds. I would guess that at Yale and Chicago about 20-25% of the class enters with some specific interest in medical school. At Yale, about 40% of them never apply to medical school, but at Chicago it looks like 70% never apply.</p>

<p>Looking at Chicago’s information, this quarter more than 400 students were registered in a General Chemistry class that satisfies medical school requirements. Not all of those people are interested in medical school, but that’s more than 25% of a class, and I would bet decent money that a solid majority of them are thinking about medical school. Somewhere along the line an awful lot of those students change their plans. Not that there is anything horribly wrong with that, because there are lots of things great to do in the world. It’s not a tragedy, or even a problem, if people change their minds. But it’s worth wondering if there’s something going on at Chicago that causes a higher attrition rate for premeds.</p>

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<p>Yea if those numbers are correct they would surprise me because the courses here in Premed are not ridiculously hard. If you work hard here you will get an A. And I really cant see CCIHP choosing which kids get to go to medical school but what I do know that they do is if your med-school application looks a little weak, low GPA or lacking clinical experience, they will recommend that you take a gap year to strengthen your application aka do lab work for a year or clinical work. That could be the reason, they try to make it so you only apply to med school once and get in once. But I mean if your GPA just sucks I’m sure they tell you and then their is no point in applying at all.</p>

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<p>All:</p>

<p>Pay attention to JHS’ post, because his analysis is quite pertinent here. Immediately upon seeing the OP’s post, one item stood out to me: only 95-100 UChicago students apply to medical school each year??</p>

<p>In terms of actual numbers, as JHS points out, only about 5-6% of UChicago’s class (roughly) goes on to medical school. At Yale, about 150 students apply, and about 10% of any given class goes to medical school. On a related note, here are Brown’s numbers:</p>

<p>[Medical</a> Admission Data Snapshot](<a href=“WELCOME TO HEALTH CAREERS ADVISING | Health Careers Advising”>WELCOME TO HEALTH CAREERS ADVISING | Health Careers Advising)</p>

<p>At Brown, about 180 students apply, Brown has about a 80% accept rate, so around 140 Brown alums go on to med school - about 10% of the class.</p>

<p>I really don’t think the interest in medical school is that different between Brown, UChicago, and Yale. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, though, about 5% of UChicago’s class goes on to medical school, compared to 10% of the classes at Brown and Yale.</p>

<p>The OP and other applicants should present such data to UChicago’s pre-med adviser and inquire more deeply into why this disparity exists. I’m not quite clear on why this difference is present.</p>

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<p>Let me ask (not assert) this- is UChicago a hotspot for premed students though? I have definitely seen posts complaining that UofC weeds way too aggressively to protect its med school admissions rate. Are we assuming that the premed program, as well as the premed students, at UChicago are just the same in qualifications as Yale and Brown? If they aren’t, and UChicago is not as qualified, could this account for the more aggressive weeding? </p>

<p>Additionally, I really do not think there is a same amount of premed freshmen at UChicago as there is at Yale and Brown. I can’t say much to back this up, other than the fact that UChicago’s transition to a more pre-professional-friendly school is fairly new. </p>

<p>Also, it could be invesitgated but I don’t know what school would admit “Yes, we weed too aggressively here.” if that IS the problem. I can send an email after New Years though.</p>

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<p>tawarren95, I have two points to make:</p>

<p>1.) I should have said this in my last post, you and other potential UChicago students should delve more deeply into why this disparity exists, either by following up with the pre-med adviser, OR (perhaps more constructively) reaching out to current students/student-run pre-med clubs. </p>

<p>2.) Yes, we are positing that interest in medical school, at UChicago, Brown, Yale, etc. is quite comparable. Further, we’re asserting that the qualifications between students at all these schools are quite comparable. </p>

<p>I’m just not sure why only 5% of UChicago students go on to med school, whereas 10% do at Yale or Brown. I doubt it’s because Brown and Yale students are twice as interested in med school than UChicago students. The inclinations of the student bodies at these three schools is probably (especially now) quite comparable.</p>

<p>More investigation is needed, although the numbers from UChicago do not particularly inspire confidence. I imagine these numbers will improve in the future (e.g. the Class of 2013 or 2014 may see ~130 students applying to med school, as opposed to 100 now), but, for current college applicants, the UChicago numbers are not that persuasive. </p>

<p>Again, the pre-med adviser may be evasive with these questions, but it bears follow up. Further, it’s worthwhile to ask for all information possible from the pre-med adviser - such as UChicago’s average MCAT rate, the average MCAT rate for admitted applicants, how many UChicago students note interest in pre-med during the 1st and 2nd years of study in the college, etc. </p>

<p>More data should be accessible here. If, for example, ~350 students are in the pre-med track and note pre-med interest in their 1st and 2nd years, and only 95 students wind up applying to medical school, that’s worthwhile to know.</p>

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<p>Wouldn’t it make sense that the UChicago student body is more self-selective? Pre-meds know that GPA is a big deal, and no matter how much admissions will claim that med schools adjust for grade-deflation, I’m not sure how much prospective students buy into that. As a school known not to have grade inflation, I’d think pre-meds would choose grade-friendly peer schools if given the opportunity.</p>

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<p>@eimpirical: I agree. I think the % of the student body initially even considering pre-med is going to be lower than that of other schools. Some universities student bodies are almost 1/3 premed.</p>

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<p>So if you have fewer premed students at University A than at University B, the math will tell you “Wow, at University A only 5% of the student body is getting into med school vs 10% at University B,” right? </p>

<p>* “I’m just not sure why only 5% of UChicago students go on to med school, whereas 10% do at Yale or Brown. I doubt it’s because Brown and Yale students are twice as interested in med school than UChicago students. The inclinations of the student bodies at these three schools is probably (especially now) quite comparable.” *
Not sure what you mean by “inclinations” but I do feel that there are naturally more premed students at Yale and Brown than at UChicago (which has also been stated, as there were ~100 at UofC last year and ~140 at Yale). Doesn’t the amount of premeds affect the percentage of the student body getting into med school? Per capita calculations, right?</p>

<p>However, again, I have heard that UofC’s weeding is very, very aggressive. I don’t think premed students tend to be more self-selective than the school is selective. I just see premed-ers as persistent people who would see switching into something else as “failure” (and not all do and of course, it is a mistake to think this way; I’ve talked to my parents about switching if premed doesn’t work out at UofC and they told me that for the amount of money they’re paying, it better work out. Some kids just…stick it out to the end, so to speak).</p>

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<p>tawarren95:</p>

<p>I fundamentally disagree that there are more pre-med students at Yale or Brown than UChicago. I think the number of initial pre-med students are about equivalent at all these schools - and the capabilities of the students are comparable at all these schools as well. UChicago students may drop out of the pre-med track at a higher clip, but if you polled incoming students and those early on in college, I imagine that the percentages would be very similar. I imagine, though, that the pre-med “experience” at UChicago leads to a sharper winnowing of interest as the years go on - and that the experience at Yale and Brown is not as severe. </p>

<p>Other posters have argued that, as Chicago doesn’t have grade inflation, fewer UChicago students are interested in pre-med. </p>

<p>First, there is no evidence that UChicago currently has grade deflation. As seen here:</p>

<p>[National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com/]National”>http://www.gradeinflation.com/)</p>

<p>In 2006, the avg. UChicago gpa was 3.35. At Duke, a school where pre-meds are a common breed, the avg. gpa was 3.42. Further, since 2006, I imagine the avg. GPA at UChicago has only gone up - keeping it probably roughly in line with most of its peers. </p>

<p>Second, again, as I stated above, I don’t think UChicago students, thinking there is grade deflation, are less interested in medicine early on at the school. Rather, the interest levels are probably comparable at many top schools. As UChicago students begin the pre-med track, however, and experience a harsher climate than what may be found at Yale and Brown, more students drop out of this path. </p>

<p>Either way, the best way to answer this question is to get more data from the pre-med office. How many students ask or express interest in certification or endorsement from this office? How many are actually endorsed? </p>

<p>The interest in becoming a doctor is probably comparable across many top schools. Again, certain schools may offer a better general climate to support their students (or at least more of their students) in this endeavor.</p>

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<p>One other point of reference, at Dartmouth:</p>

<p>[Pre-Med</a>, Pre-Law, & Pre-Business Opportunities](<a href=“Home | Dartmouth Admissions”>Home | Dartmouth Admissions)</p>

<p>At Dartmouth, about 180-200 students apply to health programs each year. Conservatively, then, for a class of around 1200, it’s possible around 120 go to medical school - about 10% of the class. </p>

<p>Again, I’m not sure how significant it is that UChicago sees 5% (rather than the more typical 10% at other top colleges) of its class go on to medical school. I still strongly doubt, though, that it’s because UChicago self-selects for students less interested in medical school. The MD is still a pretty coveted degree, and one that a good percentage of top students - at UChicago or any other school - want at generally consistent levels.</p>

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<p>If we’re going to be specific, then no, UChicago doesn’t have grade deflation. They just don’t participate in grade inflation. </p>

<p>Also, to quote you-
“At Yale, about 150 students apply
At Brown, about 180 students apply”</p>

<p>And at UChicago, only about 100 students apply. Your logic is that at Brown, Yale, and UChicago, the freshman classes all start out with the same amount of premed students, but differences in intensity of weeding between the universities causes UChicago to have significantly less students applying to med schools? Does this seem more likely to you than the idea that maybe there are more premed students at Yale and Brown and Dartmouth (who has 180-200 kids applying) than at UChicago, a school that is just recently attracting more pre-pro students?</p>

<p>“The interest in becoming a doctor is probably comparable across many top schools.” Right, but the amount of interested people probably differ between UofC and its peers.</p>

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<p>“And at UChicago, only about 100 students apply. Your logic is that at Brown, Yale, and UChicago, the freshman classes all start out with the same amount of premed students, but differences in intensity of weeding between the universities causes UChicago to have significantly less students applying to med schools? Does this seem more likely to you than the idea that maybe there are more premed students at Yale and Brown and Dartmouth (who has 180-200 kids applying) than at UChicago, a school that is just recently attracting more pre-pro students?”</p>

<p>Yes. I’m really not sure why you think UChicago has fewer pre-med students than any other top school. Even when I was a student at UChicago many years ago, interest in medicine was very very high. I think something like 20% of the class (at least, if not more) were on the pre med track or stated they were on this track early on in college. In my day, though, the weeding out was severe. </p>

<p>I’m not sure why interest now would be less than my time at UChicago. This basic premise is why I think UChicago has a very large number of students interested in premed - since the numbers were so high in my day, I have no reason to think they are declining now.</p>

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<p>(Also, I’m not sure what it means to say UChicago doesn’t have grade deflation, but it doesn’t participate in grade inflation. In 2006, UChicago had a 3.35 avg gpa. Since that time, the school has embarked on some of the most rapid administrative and admissions changes seen in its history. I would be surprised if grades haven’t crept up to go along with these changes - leading to an avg gpa of maybe around 3.4-3.5. Is would be in line with schools known for grade inflation, such as duke or Dartmouth.</p>

<p>I really think its a misnomer by 2013 to say UChicago doesn’t grade inflate. It’s probably firmly in the middle of the pack of schools that grade inflate.)</p>

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<p>Interesting how the 100 number seems to be fixed in stone.
Last year 170 applied with a Chicago affiliation. Usually a reasonable chunk applies after graduation. So what is the premed office tracking?</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/download/161114/data/table2-6.pdf[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/download/161114/data/table2-6.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I think UChicago has fewer pre-med students than other top schools because

  1. UofC has had problems in the past attracting pre-pro students (not that they have actually tried until recently). The new implementations in improving pre-pro programs even shows new effort on their behalf to take care of and introduce more pre-pro students. Many alum have said they would never suggest UofC for their premed kid. Premeds for the most part pay attention to what school will be best for them, and quite frankly, there have been better options in the past for a premed undergrad experience. If a student is qualified for both UofC and JHU, they’ll probably pick the latter for premed. </p>

<ol>
<li>This is much more likely than the idea that weeding differences between JHU, Brown, Yale, and UChicago are so severe that while they all start with the same amount of premed students (which is unlikely to compare between all those and UofC; like I said, UofC has never been much of a pre-pro magnet), they eventually vary by between 40-100 students. Weeding is an important factor of the big picture, but that big? Not sure.</li>
</ol>

<p>I’m not saying that there’s less interest at UChicago within the undergrad body. What I’m saying is that there are simply less premed students at UChicago then at, lets say, Yale. (Or maybe that’s the exact same thing?) </p>

<p>I never said numbers are declining- quite the opposite. There’s definitely an upward trend in the amount of pre-pro kids attending UChicago or showing interest, as UofC begins to implement more resources to make the school more pre-professionally friendly. UofC has always been more of a PhD-prep school, and now that things are changing, I would expect more pre-pro kids coming to UofC.</p>