Pre-professional for sciences? vs Other schools...

<p>My daughter is a junior at a very solid public high school. At the end of freshman year, she took a college trip and loved Tufts and Brown. We suspect she would not get into Brown but has a decent shot at Tufts. </p>

<p>(Stats for those who like this sort of thing: about 3.6uw gpa-- but she was sick for most of 10th grade so that should go up, she had 2 APs soph year, 3 APs junior year and probably 4-5 senior year, tests -- hasn't taken official tests, I am guessing 650-730, underrepresented minority and some decent extracurriculars including a rather prestigious liberal arts fellowship)</p>

<p>She is interested in dentistry and Tufts, of course, has a dental school. But I am concerned when I hear it is so difficult to get good grades in the science courses since those grades are a key factor in getting her where she wants to go. I am also concerned that we will simply not be able to afford Tufts. (I'm a single parent with 3dc.)</p>

<p>Can anyone give me some insight on going pre-med/ pre-dental at Tufts? And does anyone have any other suggestions for schools we should consider? Personally, I think women's LAC (Bryn Mawr, Mt Holyoke) would be more supportive <em>and</em> they have more than expressed an interest in her. At this point, she has reservations about attending a single-gender school.</p>

<p>Also, for her senior year schedule... She can either take AP Statistics or non-AP Calculus. I think the Calculus would be better preparation but the AP will be weighted more. Any advice?</p>

<p>Keep in mind that that Tufts is not that much less selective than Brown. With the SAT range given, and some decent extracurriculars I don't think she stands out that much, and consequently I don't feel that she has a great shot. Also, how would a women's LACs be "More supportive"?</p>

<p>Actually, I didn't ask you if <em>you</em> don't think she has much of a chance at Tufts. My question was what does Tufts have to offer <em>her</em>? </p>

<p>She has been recruited by several top schools for years and I will not post the details of her life for your examination. However, she has expressed an interest in Tufts. I will let the admissions committe decide if she will get in but, again, I would like some insight into the sciences at Tufts. Frankly, when I look through the Tufts posts on cc, I see a number of defensive posts and, from the viewpoint of an outsider, it makes the school very unattractive. </p>

<p>As far as what makes a college supportive.... offering research opportunities, faculty that works closely with students as they seek opportunities (fellowships/ grants), helping students through classes (study guides/ study groups) and not just regularly giving half the class Cs or below in Organic. </p>

<p>Are sciences and pre-med/ pre-dental at Tufts more supportive or cut-throat?</p>

<p>^ They're cut-throat in comparison to most liberal arts students (with the exception of IR), but from everyone here it seems as though it's a supportive community and not like the cut-throat pre-med many other places. Tufts is a great place, this is my first week of Freshman year and I am absolutely loving it. My advising professor ordered us all pizza the day we registered for classes, all the professors are quite responsive and everyone is simply very happy here. There are TONS of research opportunities here at Tufts for nearly everything and the faculty encourages everyone to get involved with it. :)</p>

<p>I'd save Tufts sciences are on par with great schools known for those types of programs (ie, Johns Hopkins) but that while maintaining that level of rigor, the attitude is less cutthroat. So I'd say that's a perfect combination.</p>

<p>summer scholars, for example.</p>

<p>Edit: I was replying to Ben, lol.</p>

<p>The science education is one of our focus points as we do very well in preparing our graduates for whatever programs they may pursue after four years. Your daughter may end up getting a scholarship that may give her money to do research with various professors (not that this can't be done without it, but it opens up more opportunities). While Tufts doesn't officially give out scholarships, it definitely has private programs reserved for budding and ambitious professionals that want to have a taste of what a research university has to offer. It depends on what your daughter is interested in as well. Our biology department has research opportunities all over the place. I've taken advantage of it, and am glad I have had the chance to experience it - but alas, I ended up hating the experience :) Invaluable, but I suppose that's worth its weight in gold knowing now than later.</p>

<p>I concur that your D's chances at Tufts and Brown are very similar. The point of that is not to be defensive about my alma mater but rather to point out that, if she's looking hard at one, she should look hard at the other; certainly, she should not think that one is a good shot while another is out of her reach. You're either right about her chances at Tufts (and wrong about her chances at Brown) or wrong about Tufts and correct about Brown. Not to promote the competition, but encourage her to take another look at Brown. If she loves it, it's worth the $50 in app fees. </p>

<p>As for "What can Tufts offer her?" Top 20 Happiest Students. Best Food. Professors who invite their students over to dinner, out for coffee, out for pizza as a class. Small classes. A tremendously caring environment. Some of the most rigourous science classes at any school in the country. Opportunities do to paid summer research with the graduate schools - including Fletcher, the vet school, and the dental school. (Fletcher is internationally renowned. Tufts has the only vet school in New England and one of the few dental schools around.) Focus on undergrads. Professors who are tops in their fields but genuinely are focused on the undergrads. </p>

<p>Tufts is much more like a liberal arts college. It's the smallest of the Research I universities. The engineering school is small. The advantages of that are incredible - most of my friends did substantive research with professors. (By "substantive," I mean more than washing glassware. There aren't many grad students around, so the undergrads are first in line to do important work.) </p>

<p>I loved my experience at Tufts, and, in retrospect, would have done it all over again, no second thoughts. It really was the best place for me in every respect - academically, socially, psychologically. Tufts let me double-major in engineering and liberal arts. Not only did they allow it, but the liberal arts professors were so excited to get an engineer in their department that they worked hard to help me out to make the scheduling work, meet with me, and mentor me. I got a tremendous amount of advice, guidance, and friendship from the professors in that department, some of whom I kept in contact with after graduation.</p>

<p>As for financial aid, Tufts does meet all demonstrated need, but they are not need-blind. If you make between $100k-$150k/year, you'll have the most problems paying for it. Tufts is not particularly generous to the middle class (and, in the Boston area, $100k doesn't get you far), but very generous to those who don't earn much money at all.</p>

<p>As I've said on this forum earlier, I've been amazed at how impressed people are with my alma mater. I am genuinely happy with the doors that it opens for me and the impression that people get of me because I went there. It is really nice to have people automatically assume that you are really, really smart and ambitious.</p>

<p>Regarding other suggestions:</p>

<p>-Brandeis
-Wellesley
-Smith
-if you're thinking West Coast, any of the Clairmont colleges
-Rice</p>

<p>I'm not trying to knock anyone's school, but if Mt. Holyoke is expressing interest in her, it's because they would LOVE to grab a student whom they would ordinarily lose to a Tufts or a Wellesley or a Brown. It's simply a matter of numbers - Tufts gets about 13 applications for every seat. Tufts may woo students, but it's the kids whom they don't want to lose to Harvard or Yale or MIT.</p>

<p>Re: Calc v. stats - if she wants to stay "dentistry" with a straight face, she should take calc. Also, if she wants dentistry, she'll have to take science & math courses in college, and that's not the time to first take calculus. If she were thinking of a non-science major, I would say go for the AP, but AP stats seems like a "terminal" course (i.e. it's what you take when you're winding up your math courses and don't want to take other ones).</p>

<p>Thanks for all your help-- including suggestions on other schools. Tufts is definitely then still on the list-- even if it is a reach or far reach. </p>

<p>I am actually more worried about her gpa than SAT scores. We'll see how she does on her SATs. The top 15% of her public school class usually becomes Natl Merit Semi-finalists and she's within the top 15% but she is very nervous about the PSAT so we'll just have to see how she tests. </p>

<p>Oh, and here's a link to show the breakdown of SATs by race. Even the scores I predict (which are lowballing them a bit) aren't bad because I really do think they look at them in this context. </p>

<p><a href="http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:LOaOdim6rY8J:www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2005/03_v%26m_percentile_ranks_gender_ethnic_0506.pdf+SAT+african-american+99%25&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:LOaOdim6rY8J:www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2005/03_v%26m_percentile_ranks_gender_ethnic_0506.pdf+SAT+african-american+99%25&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The claremont colleges place a great deal of emphasis on SATs, more so than most of the other private colleges on the westcoast. The GPAs may be more forgiving there. In terms of what your daughter may look at, Pomona would probably be the "best" fit in terms of offering a highly personalized science education, but is also the most difficult to get in. Claremont Mckenna is a business/international affairs focused school and probably will not suit her needs. Scripps is an all girls school. I don't know much about Pitzer as it seems to be the least talked about of the consortium. Harvey Mudd is highly science based but caters more to research and engineering rather than premeds, so I've seen.</p>

<p>Brandeis also offers a fairly good selection of merit money every year and has a rigorous program for sciences. Unfortunately the campus, no matter how increasingly diverse, still maintains the old stereotypes of being predominantly jewish as well as having an unsightly hideous campus. If you also visit the Brandeis boards you'll also notice that it is noticeably grade deflated with the faculty reserving sparkling letters of recommendation for only the "best" students while shafting many of the others, which too, is saddening. It's only one piece of anecdotal evidence, but an alarming one to consider.</p>