If an athlete gets invited to submit a pre read and it is positive, is it common or rare that the coach might later change their mind about supporting (unrelated to the athlete or a bad overnight for example) but due to changing needs or other athletes?
This would Impact the athlete’s need to talk to other other coaches as well.
^^ especially as it relates to the NESCAC
Many NESCAC coaches get pre-reads for their entire list of recruits starting July 1. The length of the list can vary dramatically by school and sport. It’s not uncommon that a coach gets 5-10 pre-reads and has two slots. Generally NESCACs have 14 slots for football, and two for every other sport, but variances occur, for a variety of reasons.
Coaches are good at winnowing the list before pre-reads, so most pre-reads are positive. Athletes who have a negative pre-read are usually gone immediately, but sometimes they will have the chance to increase their test score, for example.
Getting a pre-read is NOT a commitment of support. Once the coach has pre-read results in hand, they will start to narrow their lists down from there. And yes, student-athletes can and do get added to the list throughout the summer and fall. Many coaches won’t even make decisions until late in the process, even the end of October.
With all coaches, ask questions to understand their processes, as they vary. You want to know where the athlete falls on the coach’s list. How many slots does the coach have? What proportion of slotted recruits have historically been accepted? What can the athlete do to increase their position on the list? If athlete is offered a slot, do they have to apply ED?
Be careful with terminology, as that varies by school also…you want full support, not soft support (where admission is less likely as the athlete is not being given one of the coach’s slots, yet the coach may tell admissions they would take the player for the team if they are admitted). Make sure they know where you stand and be honest where their school falls in the athlete’s list as well.
If you need a certain level of financial aid to attend, also ask for a financial pre-read.
Good luck.
^ great summary. I’m less familiar with NESCAC in particular but in general: unless a recruit has been offered a slot contingent on a pre read, the pre read is just a green light to the coach that this recruit can stay in the recruiting pool. Some coaches do have limits on # of pre reads they can request, and others only use pre read when they are serious. It’s going to vary by program. But firm support is usually given to only a fraction of the recruiting pool that had positive pre reads.
I would not stop talking to other coaches at this point in the process, at least for T&F. A lot of decisions are made in the fall and later, so there can be shuffling. If you have a rock solid guarantee of support and no interest in any other school, even to have a backup, then that might be a different story. But even then I think it’s worth continuing conversations, even just so the athlete sees what options are available but also to have a plan B and C. (Also keep in mind that most coaching changes in Track are made in the summer…).
Agree with both posters above. The pre read is an important step in the process, but it is only a step and there are several more you need to take before you become a supported recruit.
I really appreciate the input; very valuable thank you.
The important take away was that coaches send more candidates into the July early read than they can support. Is that also true of the official over night visit or by then is the list relatively locked down? How soon (or late) after the early reads are a firm invite given with dates?
With my two boys, at their Nescac school, all the recruits had to have prereads before being allowed to step on campus for an OV
There are stories both at his school and other NESCACs on this site of positive prereads then recruit not getting in
Always a leap of faith when you hit that ED button but you have to ask as many questions as possible
Good luck
Kids fall out at every point along the way. Many Nescac coaches don’t even do OVs. Slots might not be locked down until the RD round.
My daughter was offered spots at 2 Nescacs, pre-reads at a total of 4 (No OVs, all unofficials), along with other non-Nescacs in the mix. Process went well into Sept for most schools, some into end of October. Some of the non-nescac schools would have gone into RD round, had she not committed prior to then.
Yes! That is why it is so critical to understand the school’s terminology and level of support you are getting, as well as the coach’s historical success rate with that set of recruits. Recruits fall out at every point along the way, including being denied or deferred ED.
@arbitrary99 each program does the ON differently. The NESCAC program I am familiar with only did ONs for the kids who were already committed to applying. It seems odd, but basically I guess they had enough kids who wanted to go to that school that they didn’t advertise the ON as a shopping experience. I heard there was one kid who went who was told they needed a better test score, and one who was undecided on applying. So probably 80% of the kids were committed but not 100. However, most sports have camps that allow the kids to visit the campuses/coaches and meet one on one or one with the parent. If the coach is interested the key question to ask is with the coaches level of support and my kids scores/grades how often has someone like this NOT been admitted - the answer we got was never in 15 years… If this school is your kids first choice then you/the kid want to push the conversation about wanting to go to that school and what’s next. If it is not your kids first choice than keep exploring. Schools do a lot more pre reads than enrollees since some of the kids won’t want to commit to the school even if the pre-read is positive. Depends on the schools sports team yield as to how many pre-reads they do. But probably everywhere more than will enroll. It is not a likely letter. Also, if a kids scores/grade are super high, they apparently don’t “count” against the teams slots. U. Chicago 2 years ago had 12 kids in one recruiting class for a sport that fields 11 players.
For swimming, the OVs are a big part of the recruiting process. The fit of the swimmer is judged by both the recruit and the team.
It is the best time to figure out if you think you fit in to that schools culture.
I want to say that the dates for the OVs were emailed to my boys like a week and a half to two weeks from the material being submitted for the OV
Was approved and info in hand pretty quickly
Make sure that nothing controversial is written about on the essay for the application. Do not give the admissions office any opportunity to red flag your child’s application
Write a good essay, just not one that could raise an eye brow
My D3 kid was told by coaches that the fall visit was crucial for both “sides” to assess fit, and that the team members’ response to prospects was perhaps the most important factor to come out of those visits. The coach already knew they were interested in the kid and kid passed pre-read, but if current players weren’t comfortable with the prospect, it wasn’t going to happen. So a bad “fit” can be a reason a prospect doesn’t make it to the offer stage.
What @Midwestmomofboys said ;
Both of my sons have said the exact thing. They have hosted many recruits over the years and FIT on both sides is very key.
So now kids not only have to get by admissions and the coach but by team members?
Mine didn’t have to meet approval and she never got to blackball another kid either. She wasn’t best friends with most of her team (and she was a captain) but she could get along with most. Those she didn’t get along with she just ignored.
On my son’s overnight visit to a Nescac he met with some kids on the team to play badminton or something and then just basically hung out with 1 other guy who showed him around a bit. They went out for food and got a snack nearby, and hung out with other regular student kids in the dorm. Just normal college stuff. I don’t think he went to any big parties or felt judged by anyone.
His process: Took an unofficial visit in Spring of Jr year, we all met with Coach. A few weeks later Coach asked him to submit academic info for pre-read July 1. He heard back from the coach a week later saying things looked good with Admissions and that he would be willing to support his application if he applied ED. He said he wanted my son to take an official visit 1st, if he could. Son did OV, early October, and coach restated his support for him if he would apply ED. Son said yes he would do that. Coach kept in close contact with him until his app was officially submitted. Then he checked in every few weeks until December when he informed son that ED results would be out shortly. After the results came out they exchanged congratulatory emails, and they have stayed in touch through the winter. Son19 visited accepted students day and stopped by to say hi, and also had a chance to watch an event 1 day.
It was a fairly painless process for us. I was a little stressed because he turned down some other good opportunities and didn’t want him to be left hanging in late December.
On the mutual fit thing – the visits always included “down time” with various team members, from meals, class, chilling in the dorm etc. If the current players would have said, “this guy’s a real (insert your favorite expletive), he’ll mess with the team dynamic” then our sense was, that guy would have been unlikely to get a roster spot.
Part of it is I’m trying to manage expectations as it’s a school he’d love to attend and compete for. I’m sure the team fit will be fine and he knows the school well.
With the NESCACs there are (usually, depending on need and the sport) two slots, but more tips. You may find a given sport has a very large recruiting class, even for a non-helmet sport. This is because coach support can and usually does extend beyond the two slots. The difference between tips and slots is that a tip is at around the same stats (GPA and test scores) as other admitted non-athletes, while a slot is on the low side (hence the terms A band, B band and C band).
I agree that the pre read is not definitive. Realize that at the end of the recruiting process, things are going to shift quite a bit. A coach’s top recruit may go elsewhere. A D1 recruit may drop into a coach’s lap. Until you get the fat envelope, it is a roller coaster ride. There are coaches who write and call every week, and then suddenly nothing. There are coaches who never write or call and then in October invite a student out for an OV.
It is pretty important (if logistically possible) for a parent to attend the coach meeting during the OV. If your kid isn’t able to ask, the parent must drill down and ask whether the kid will be admitted. Under NESCAC rules, the coach’s say isn’t definitive, but it is probably as good as your are going to get. You will want to know how many athletes the coach is recruiting, where your kid is ranked on the list of recruits, what band admissions thinks your kid falls into, how many kids in a similar situation have gotten in and how many have been turned away. Finally, you will want the coach to commit to support your kid with admissions, which he or she may do but only in early admission rounds. The information will not be perfect, but it is a lot better than the crap shoot of regular admission.
It is really important to realize that this is all a process, and that recruits are being evaluated right up until a committable offer is made. Recruits should be doing the same thing, and talking to some number of schools right up until making a decision where to attend. You need to keep reminding yourself (and your son) that the process isn’t over until it is over, and that things can and some times do change during every phase of the process.
As far as whether overnight visits/official visits are evaluative, I really think that varies by the school and the program. I both attended and hosted a few official visits during my own playing days. The visits I attended were all done before I committed to a school, and I can’t remember if I had offers at all the schools before I went on the visit. I know that the coaches asked me about the kids I hosted when I was playing. I seriously doubt that anything I had to say was definitive about a particular recruit, but I am sure my comments went in to the hopper as it were. On the other hand, my son went on one official visit that occurred six months after he committed and a month after he received his likely letter. It really seems to vary. It does appear from reading this board that “passing” the overnight seems to be more of a thing in women’s sports, but that is a pretty gross generalization made on reading things here, mostly.
@arbirary99 I think the overnight depends vary much on the specific sport and specific coach. At this point if this is a school of high interest the kid can straight up express that interest and ask what’s next to the coach. In my kids experience the coach really encouraged the recruits to come to an overnight camp summer before senior year for NESCAC school, and the later formal ON was just before ED applications were due and was told it was for commits only. (in fact only one girl who attended formal ON was not committed and the ON was not a screening process since these kids had been ON at school prior). You obviously probably want to keep the top 2 or 3 schools in contention until a coach tells you the odds of your kid getting in and they are near 100. I think discussing how many kids the coach is recruiting and where your kid ranks is more confusing since kids who are higher academically than the average matriculant don’t even count against the coach’s tips/slots for NESCAC (UAA) even though they still weigh in for admissions. The only school I’m aware of where knowing kid ranking is important is MIT, since coaches will literally give a number to each kid for admissions. You can imagine that if the MIT coach ranks kids 1-12 and you know admissions is likely only letting 6 in, if you are not ranked in the top half odds are slim to none. Conversely, at NESCACs most of the affluent sports are whiter than the general school population so minority athletes also may not count against tips/slots either…
All really helpful information. It sounds like he should solicit interest from a few other colleges in case something happens to have a plan B. Thank you again.