<p>I was accepted into Cambridge University (Christ's College) under Natural Sciences. I am also thinking of attending medical school, however I would like to practice in the US. Thus, I am thinking of spending 3yrs getting my BS at Cambridge, and then getting a masters in the US, eventually enrolling in med school in 4 years. What are your opinions of this plan. Will it work? Will I have any chance of getting into a med school? Will I just be better off doing my undergraduate in the US (I was also accepted into Caltech, MIT, Stanford)?</p>
<p>Most American schools don’t consider 3 year degrees as valid for starting a masters. So this is something you need to clear up before you go.</p>
<p>Can not be certain about finishing master’s in an year unless you know a specific program that lets you do that already with an undergrad from Cambridge.</p>
<p>Going to one of the schools you are admitted to in US is probably better if your goal is to do medicine in US. OTOH, you could have just gone to medical school in Cambridge instead of undergrad.</p>
<p>^Yes, that’s true.</p>
<p>I had a close friend who finished a B.S. in Biotech. in 3 years here in India. She then applied to (and got accepted to) UMiami Miller School of Medicine. However, her admission was eventually rescinded after the adcoms realized that the number of years she spent as an undergraduate was less than 4.</p>
<p>texaspg, if he finishes his preliminary medical education at Cambridge, he would be categorized as a FMG and would face a tough time getting into a good residency program in the states.</p>
<p>The OP seems to be an American. So it works a bit better for the citizens.</p>
<p>Most medical schools require a year at an undergraduate American institution. Many will want to see your pre-reqs completed at a US school. Perhaps there is an exception for UK schools–so if you are seriously considering this route, I would contact a few medical schools to see how accepting they are of an Oxford degree. You could always do a 1 year post-bacc afterward, but why not just go to Stanford or Caltech and save yourself the trouble (if you’re serious about medicine). If you’re less sure, and want the abroad experience, then go to Oxford and worry about a post-bacc later.</p>
<p>Yes, I am American. The reason why I am leaning towards Cambrdige is that I think it is something that will make me stand out. My hope is that I would have a better shot coming from Cambridge than Stanford, which has 300 premeds per year. I also really like the teaching style and curriculum in the UK. And yes, by studying natural sciences I think I will be able to meet all premed reqs.</p>
<p>As to the whole standing out thing, while that applies for things like undergrad, medical school is a completely different thing. And those who try to enter med school from a school outside the U.S. have a harder time getting in. Quite a good number of medical schools don’t even accept internationals. Another thing to note is that of the ~200 spots in America for FMGs/IMGs wishing to enter med school, a good majority of those are taken by Canadians, partly in reason due to the fact that they are licensed by the same board, the LCME. I advice you, if you have the option, study undergraduate in the U.S. to have as best chance as possible of getting into medical school.</p>
<p>You should check out this website: <a href=“http://www2.fiu.edu/~preprofc/International_Students_School_Policies.htm[/url]”>http://www2.fiu.edu/~preprofc/International_Students_School_Policies.htm</a> It will pretty much give tell you what I was explaining before. It has some statistics for you to look at about international graduates applying to medical schools in America. Despite the fact that it is from 2005 I think it’s safe to assume that it’s still pretty much like that today. However, someone could correct me if I’m wrong.</p>
<p>To the above poster, this student is American and thus these rules do not apply.</p>
<p>To the OP, trust me, you are making your life more difficult by doing this. For example, from the Penn Med requirements page:</p>
<p>“To provide the School of Medicine with a basis for evaluating and comparing applicants’ performance and to increase the student’s likelihood of success in medical school, those who receive degrees from foreign institutions are required to have completed one year of course work in the sciences at a college or university in the United States before an application for admission to the first year of medical school will be considered.”</p>
<p>Or Hopkins:
“Preparation in foreign universities, in most cases, must be supplemented by a year or more of work in an approved university in the United States.”</p>
<p>Perhaps Oxford would be an exception, but you should check this out first. Don’t do anything because you want to stand out, because this route makes your life more difficult, do it only if you truly desire to study and live abroad for 3-4 years.</p>
<p>Have to agree with those suggesting that going to med school in the US is far easier if you have a degree from an US institution. A case in point may be well be that doing premed, or studying law is nearly always easier at the countries you intend to practice; you’re right, with a Cambridge degree you would stand out, but you would make your life easier if you go to Stanford.
It would, however, be a mistake to conclude that people with an Oxbridge BA having hard time to get admitted to US MA or PhD programmes, just because their BA normally take 3 years to complete. What an absurd idea. The UK model is not a liberal arts one, but far more focused, and although people may not get a broader education, but their knowledge on their subject is, indeed, far greater compared to those studying under the US system. </p>
<p>" Most American schools don’t consider 3 year degrees as valid for starting a masters."</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, I have plenty of friends who, after getting a BA from either Cambridge or Oxford, went to top notch grad schools in the US (Harvard, Princeton, Chicago, Stanford, MIT, Columbia, Yale, Brown, just checked) and faced with no problem. But this not just applied for Cambridge and Oxford (or, may I assume that a 4 year BA from, say, UVA, is worth more than a 3 year BA from Oxbridge? ROLF), but to whole Europe, as the BA takes 3 years to complete in the EU countries, and tons of EU students continue in US grad schools. But maybe neither attending to proper “American schools” LOL. </p>
<p>Anyway, just out of curiosity, why everyone is mentioning Oxford when he got admitted to Cambridge? :D</p>
<p>The American colleges require 4 years of college when they enter graduate school. Some of the ivy league schools dont always follow the rules and also dont require kids to complete 12th grade in US to join undergraduate study either.</p>
<p>Graduate school is totally different from medical school. If you just want to go to any school that will accept you with a cambridge diploma then it should be ok but it is very hard to get into medical school and even harder to get into an elite one. </p>
<p>If the OP just wanted to go to graduate school, it is not a big deal since there are a lot of them that may admit someone from Cambridge.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about “The American colleges” the vast majority of my information and experience is relate to the elite and, have to say, you do not even need a Cambridge or Oxford degree to enter a top notch grad school with a 3 years European BA. Again, thousands of EU students do this every year, without facing any problems. Can’t see the point why are you stressing this. But I know people who entered to solid state flagships MA or PhD programmes (Colorado at Boulder, Indiana at Bloomington, UF and Penn State) having a 3 year BA in hand from solid German universities. (Well, those uni’s considered strong at Germany, but while Cambridge and Oxford are in the world top 10 at every ranking, even the strongest German institutions are struggling to enter the World top 50 or 100…). I’m sure you’re right, and there are indeed universities in the US that do not accept students with a 3 year BA other than Oxbridge into their graduate programs, but I don’t think there are many. Again, bear in mind that the whole EU university system, after it’s uniformization through the Bologna pact, based on 3 year BA, followed by a 2 year MA (although the MPhil at Cambridge and Oxford usually takes 1 year to complete, which means that it is quite intensive). What a capital mistake would it be to neglect the whole EU student population who want to pursue grad studies in the US, after receiving their undergrad degrees? </p>
<p>As a matter of fact I know people (well, just two, therefore I would not base whole statistics on them :D) who went to medical school in the US (Harvard) after being undergrad at Cambridge, but that’s true, it’s always hard change, and as far as I know they also faced with some problems, simply because there are considerable differences between the UK and the US systems. The same goes to law, as mentioned. It is safe to say that it is wiser to pursue undergrad studies in the US if someone wants to practice there. I’m not arguing against this, it’s absolutely true.</p>
<p>I am an engineer with a 4 year degree that came to US in late 80s to a graduate school. I had a German batchmate with a 3 year degree who came as a visiting scholar, no less knowledgeable from anyone else in the department but he had to jump through major hoops when they tried to convert him into a graduate student. He had to go take some 101 undergraduate classes during his first year there to make up for his lack of credits in some areas to get him upto par with a 4 year degree (totally useless but it was forced). At the end of the first year, he was finally certified as having completed his undergrad equivalent and then was converted into a master’s student in the dept. He completed the masters after the second year, which was normal for our dept., i.e., do a masters with thesis in two years.</p>
<p>This guy had the deparment head fighting for him through the entire bureaucratic process because he wanted to hold him back for an extra year (the head wanted him to even do a Ph.D. but the guy wanted to go back home).</p>
<p>The whole point of it is that anything is possible, but assuming it is a smooth process making it through these multiple systems is foolhardy. I am advising the OP to do research. I think if you can the OP in touch with your friends who ended up going to harvard med, it might help.</p>
<p>Well, a lot of things changed since the 80’s 
(Although have to add, that the engineering degree at Cambridge takes 4 years, for some reason.) Most importantly, the Bologna process uniformized the higher education in the EU, which led to a few catastrophes, still, it seems that the system is working. The basic idea was behind this transformation to make it easier for students to pursue degrees abroad - and, although it follows the British way, so the BA takes 3 years, it is obviously easier for those wish to pursue grad studies in the US, for obvious reason: they have a BA in hand, not a, say, laurea, and the US universities know well the process and the degree equivalence. </p>
<p>I know the latter from experience, as I did my undergrad studies in Germany before the introduction of the Bologna process, therefore I got a MA as a first degree, which is a kind of weird thing from an US perspective, but the administrators at those universities I targeted to pursue an MA (namely Princeton, Yale and Columbia), knew everything about the Bolgna process, and the former systems as well. On purely speculative grounds, one might think that there are universities in the US that do not accept students with an European BA to pursue grad studies, but, again, I know at least 35 people (just counted :D) who went straight from the EU to the US to pursue grad studies, and neither of them faced with any problems because their BA took “just” 3 years; have to add, however, that there were no people in this group who wanted to go to law or med school. (For obvious reasons, I’m not counting that 9 or 10 people who went to Ivy league (+Stanford, MIT and Chicago) schools with an Oxbridge BA in hand. An Oxbridge BA is an Oxbridge BA, after all, and as such, it is highly regarded.) The two people I know, who got into Harvard from Cambridge, were indeed faced with problems, but that’s not about 3v4 years, but because the whole system is different. </p>
<p>And one cannot rule out the possibility that people with Harvard BA-s would face plenty of problems if they want to enter med school in the UK. But the same goes to med schools within the EU, as law and medicine are the two things not yet affected by the Bologna process, and therefore nearly every EU country have a system different from it’s neighbor’s.</p>
<p>Having spent 2 years in London at a top-notch university, I am very familiar with both the US and UK medical and college systems. In addition, I applied MD/PhD in the US, but had many friends applying for medical school and graduate school in the UK and US this year. I think GeraldM is right–getting into a PhD program is the US with a 3 year BA from Cambridge (thanks for pointing that out) would be less problematic (for the most part). However, I think this is very important: medical school is a completely different monster. The system is not the same, the application process is completely different, and the two should be compared. At all.</p>
<p>So back to the point of this thread.</p>
<p>Medical schools do accept 3 year degrees from the US. Many people shorten their time to graduate by using AP credit, and they are not usually excluded from medical school for this reason. I cannot say how adcom’s feel about a shorter degree, but I do not think this is the main problem with pursuing a degree in the UK.
For example, from Columbia says:
“Attendance for at least three full academic years at an accredited college in the U.S. or Canada.”</p>
<p>I feel that problem comes from fulfilling pre-req classes abroad, where they will differ from American required courses. Does the OP know if Cambridge will teach organic chemistry in the two semesters, as they do in the US? How will the medical schools know that you have the same base knowledge as their American applicants? Obviously, you will receive the best education possible at Cambridge, but will it be the same education? This is hard to guarantee. Some schools also require a number of liberal arts courses, which you would not get from a UK school. Furthermore, every medical school will want 1 year at an American institution too. So to summarize, there are three problems here:
- The pre-req classes: will you be able to do them in the UK, or will you have to come back to the US? You will need one year of english, this won’t be do-able pursuing a natural sciences degree at a English uni–even if they teach organic chemistry, general chemistry, physics, and biology in the same way.
- 1 year at an American school
- Liberal arts requirements, will have to do in the US.</p>
<p>Medical schools have 30,000 applicants a year. If they don’t like your classes, they can just pick someone else who went to Stanford and met their requirements. Don’t make yourself stand out in a bad way. As I said before, go to Cambridge if you want to do it for the experience itself. Call around now and see what the medical school admissions people think. And then realize you may have to spend 1-2 years at a US school when you come back, to fulfill any requirements (1-3) that you were unable to do abroad.</p>
<p>EDIT:
Last thought here: grading! Your GPA is going to be on a completely different scale in the UK. As are MUCH harder to get in the UK. And as med school adcoms do not deal with foreign degrees very often, you can’t guarantee how understanding they will be. Will they really recognize how could your good 80% average is? Will they be forgiving? All these things, you can’t guarantee. My mother recently translated her 2:1 degree (only one person got a first from her year) to American grades for her second bachelor’s degree. Guess what? They got translated to straight Bs/B+s by a company that specializes in transferring degrees. And it was certainly not a reflection of how well she did, considering that B/B+ is average here in the US.</p>
<p>I pretty much agree with cadriethiel. I had a great time in Cambridge but I am not sure it is the best way of getting into medical school in the US. Three years for a degree will be no problem and the cost of three years at Cambridge will be significantly less than Stanford etc. This is of course assuming the UK government does not change the costs for international students in any significant way in the near future. I am assuming your parents would be footing 100% of the bill with any of your options. I do not have a current Tripos to view courses but I think you can take chemistry, physics, math and biology courses to complete your pre med science requirements at Cambridge. You would have to take any non science liberal arts courses in the US, possibly in the summer. Some medical schools may require you to take a year of University in the US but I suspect you might be able to get out of this in some cases.
Now it used to be very difficult to get a First in the Oxbridge system but apparently there has been significant grade inflation in the UK as well in the US according to an article I read last year.
Do not remember what the source was but I think it was in the Economist but could it could have been in the Telegraph. There did seem to be a many First flowers being worn in Oxford last year when I visited in June. If you get Firsts your grades will be fine. Am not sure how US medical schools will view Seconds or Thirds.
My opinion, which is not based on any experience ( as you would be a novel candidate )
is that you would be fine with Firsts from Cambridge, a mid 30’s MCAT, and some time in a US university to finish up requirements. If you do not get Firsts I am not sure how Seconds and Thirds would be viewed. It would therefore be safer to go the US route where say a 3.6 at Stanford etc would be a more known quantity.</p>
<p>I know someone who just went through this process with a top-drawer Oxbridge undergrad degree plus MSc. American medical schools like to compare apples to apples when it comes to coursework. It was recommended to this student by deans at two top US medical schools that he/she should come to the US and do a one year Master’s before applying so that schools would have something to work with when comparing this student to other candidates. It sounds as if your plan is possible though I would think that you will have to take a year off because you will need US coursework in hand to apply and you won’t be doing that until your fourth year.</p>
<p>Cambridge and Oxford are wonderful academically but if you want to go to med school in the US you will be beating your head against a wall unless you plan on taking a US graduate degree before applying. I did hear rumors that Harvard will start entertaining Oxbridge educated applicants next year but I do not know if that is true.</p>
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<p>This is just not a good plan. Do not go to Cambridge to improve your odds of attending a U.S. medical school. I understand the fascination and allure of Cambridge and for almost any other career goal, I would be right there with you. But not for someone intent on med school. </p>
<p>Too risky. Advising, med school requirements, grading, timing of organized MCAT preparation.</p>
<p>IMO, go to Stanford.</p>