<p>Is anyone here doing it/has anyone here done it? Is studying abroad still possible? Does Dartmouth have a generally less-stressful premed atmosphere compared to Johns Hopkins, etc. </p>
<p>Any thoughts from current/past students would be great, thanks!</p>
<p>Dartmouth is one of the best possible choices for premed. Because it's a little smaller than most universities, the competition is lesser and the quality of education is very high. I saw a ranking of undergrad premed programs once (sorry I don't have a link), that had Dartmouth sixth after Caltech, MIT, Yale, Amherst, and Princeton... seems about ballpark right. Johns Hopkins isn't as bad as people make it out to be - it has the resources you need for a great premed program. The competition is higher because of the relatively higher % of students on that path, but I don't think it's overwhelming.</p>
<p>a diff with dartmouth is that the administration and faculty are very supportive whereas at JHU, the advisors discourage and sometimes even refuse to write recs for poor students wanting to apply to med school in fear that their poor performance will look bad for JHU premed/med school acceptance rates</p>
<p>That might have some truth to it, but don't let it influence your decision. It's an unverifiable claim.</p>
<p>Its actually true, happened to someone I personally know. Anyway, my Dartmouth friends have done extrordinarily well with med school placement. Most people are at top med schools.</p>
<p>Yep, Dartmouth is definitely one of the top schools in terms of placing its premed students into the top medical schools such as Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Yale, WUSTL and Penn.</p>
<p>The nathan smith pre-med society as dartmouth (It is recommended that all pre-meds at dartmouth join). </p>
<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Enss/%5B/url%5D">http://www.dartmouth.edu/~nss/</a></p>
<p>Click the must read link for entering students</p>
<p>Advisor
Professor Lee A. Witters M.D.
Chair, Dartmouth College Health Professions Advisory Committee
Eugene W. Leonard 1921 Professor of Medicine & Biochemistry, Dartmouth Medical School</p>
<p>Also teaches bio 2 given in the fall. D said that he is fantastic and one of the nicest people.</p>
<p>Ah, premeds.</p>
<p>While the College certainly doesn't weed out med school applications, the classes sure do. I'd say about 35% of my class entered as pre-med (or at least it seemed that way); perhaps 5-10% still are.</p>
<p>were you weeded out?</p>
<p>I don't really think anyone ever gets "weeded out" as there is more than one way to go to medical school. Peoples needs change, intersts change and it is very easy to become interested in so many things that Dartmouth offers that you want to do them all. It is not unusual to find students taking a few years off or even going into other careers before going on to medical school. </p>
<p>Remember the basic pre-med track at Dartmouth is</p>
<p>Chem 3 & 6 or 5 & 6 o Chem 10 (honors chem only given freshman year)</p>
<p>Bio 19 & 15 and 16 (bio 19 only open to freshmen in fall, bio 15/16 given in winter & spring terms)</p>
<p>Organic Chem 51 & 52 or 57 & 58</p>
<p>Math 3 or 8 and Math 4</p>
<p>Physics 3 & 4 or 13 & 14 or 15 & 16</p>
<p>Different med schools have additional requirements</p>
<p>It takes a lot of balancing and doubling up courses if one is going to do the pre-med track, do a study abroad and maybe do a leave term internship and go to med school straight after graduation, but it can be done. You are taking 3 courses per term classes meet 4 times a week (as most science professors do use their "X" hours) in addition to labs.</p>
<p>I think that it is really all a matter of personal choice because if you don't do your pre-med requirements as an undergrad one can always to a pre-med post bachelors program at any number of schools following graduation. </p>
<p>Nope, one of the few bio people who never wanted to go to med school in the first place.</p>
<p>Wannabe pathology Ph.D.</p>
<p>As for sybbie's information, I've only had one science prof use most x-hours, and even those were optional. And a lot of people's 'interests change' when they get their first c or b- in bio 16 or 15.</p>
<p>Hey WG,</p>
<p>Hope all is going well and you had a good summer. Most important I hope you have better housing this year (D is living in the treehouses). D is still sticking out Pre-med fwiw, however, she really wants to do 2 study abroad programs. She has a few friends whose interests have changed following Bio 16 and Chem 6 this past spring.</p>
<p>Gotta talk to this kid because it there is any professor who uses their X hours she has managed to get in their class (not only in the sciences, she said Gleuck(?), Cook and Christensen used a lot of their hours when she took them). She said she has definitely asked more questions for this year regarding the use of "X" hours.</p>
<p>why are there diff options lik e "Chem 3 & 6 OR 5 & 6 OR Chem 10" and how do you know which ones to take....further, what are honors classes for freshman and how do you get to take them??</p>
<p>thanks everyone and sybbie for evertyhting!</p>
<p>Chem 10 is honors Chem
Bio 19 is honors bio </p>
<p>They can only be taken in freshman year and I believe both are only given in the fall term.</p>
<p>Admissions to honors courses are determined by placement exams which are taken are given during Freshman Orientation. </p>
<p>WG has taken bio 19 so he could give you more insight to the course.</p>
<p>10. Honors First-Year General Chemistry</p>
<p>05F, 06F: 10; Laboratory W or Th 2:00-6:00 p.m.</p>
<p>Chemistry 10 is a general chemistry course for students with a strong background in chemistry and mathematics who may have an interest in majoring in the sciences. The course will cover selected general chemistry topics important for higher level chemistry courses. These include thermodynamics, reaction kinetics, quantum mechanics, and bonding. Laboratory work will emphasize physico-chemical measurements and quantitative analysis.</p>
<p>Chemistry 10 is open only to first-year students and enrollment is limited. Admission is by satisfactory performance on a general chemistry proficiency test given during Orientation. Adequate mathematics preparation, equivalent to Mathematics 3, is also required.</p>
<p>Chemistry 10 is offered in the fall term and is the prerequisite equivalent to Chemistry 5/6. Students who successfully complete Chemistry 10 will also be granted credit for Chemistry 5, if they have not already been granted such credit.</p>
<p>Prerequisite: Satisfactory performance on the general chemistry proficiency test and credit for Mathematics 3 or equivalent. Supplemental course fee required. Dist: SLA.</p>
<p>Bio19. Honors Introduction to Cell Biology</p>
<p>05F, 06F: 9; Laboratory Tu or Th 1:45-5:45 or 6:30-10:30</p>
<p>Biology 19 is a general cell biology course for students with a strong background in biology and chemistry who have an interest in majoring in Biology. This course will give students an introduction to the fundamental mechanisms that govern the structure and function of eukaryotic cells and will include discussion of the experimental basis for understanding cell function. The laboratory section will provide students with hands-on experience in modern laboratory techniques including microscopy, cell fractionation, and protein purification.</p>
<p>Biology 19 is open only to first-year students and enrollment is limited. Admission is by satisfactory performance on a proficiency test given during Orientation. Biology 19 is the prerequisite equivalent to Biology 15.</p>
<p>Prerequisite: Satisfactory performance on the biology proficiency test. Dist: SLA. Smith.</p>
<p>15. Introductory Physics I, Honors Section</p>
<p>05F: 906F: 10; Laboratory: Arrange</p>
<p>Physics 15, 16 and 19 are an alternative sequence to Physics 13, 14, 19 and 24 for students whose substantial background in physics and mathematics enables them to study the material in more depth than is possible in regular sections, and who are willing to devote correspondingly more work to the course. Admission criteria are described in the First Year, available from the First-year Office.</p>
<p>Dynamics of particles and rigid bodies. Gravitation. Oscillations and waves. Fluids. Kinetic theory and thermodynamics. One laboratory period per week. Supplemental course fee required.</p>
<p>Prerequisite: Mathematics 8 or 9 concurrently, and permission of the instructor. Dist: SLA. Rogers.</p>
<p>*** Chem 3 or Chem 5***</p>
<p>**3. General Chemistry<a href="offered%20during%20Winter%20term">/b</a></p>
<p>06W, 07W: 10; Laboratory: Arrange</p>
<p>An introduction to the fundamental principles of chemistry, including chemical stoichiometry; the properties of gases, liquids, and solids; solutions; chemical equilibria; and an introduction to thermodynamics.</p>
<p>Chemistry 3 is intended for students whose preparation in science and mathematics may be inadequate for Chemistry 5. The course moves at a more moderate pace and emphasizes those topics which are essential as preparation for further work in chemistry and for medical school. The laboratory work emphasizes physical-chemical measurements, quantitative analysis, and synthesis.</p>
<p>Students enroll initially in Chemistry 5, and enrollment in Chemistry 3 is then by invitation only based on secondary school background, CEEB scores, and performance in mathematics during the fall term. Students who successfully complete both Chemistry 3 and Mathematics 2 or 3 will be eligible to enroll in Chemistry 6.</p>
<p>Prerequisite: Mathematics 1 or 3. Students who have taken Mathematics 1 as a prerequisite for Chemistry 3 must take Mathematics 2 concurrently with Chemistry 3. Supplemental course fee required. Dist: SLA.</p>
<p>*5-6. Chemistry * Chem 5 offered in fall and Winter terms, Chem 6 is offered only in the spring.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>05F: 10 06W: 9L, 10 06F: 10 07W: 9L, 10; Laboratory: Arrange</p></li>
<li><p>06S, 07S: 9L, 10; Laboratory: Arrange</p></li>
</ol>
<p>An introduction to the fundamental principles of chemistry, including chemical stoichiometry; the properties of gases, liquids, and solids; solutions; chemical equilibria; atomic and molecular structure; an introduction to thermodynamics; reaction kinetics; and a discussion of the chemical properties of selected elements. The laboratory work emphasizes physical-chemical measurements, quantitative analysis, and synthesis.</p>
<p>An outline of topics for review of secondary school background in preparation for college general chemistry is available from the Department of Chemistry.</p>
<p>Students who are eligible to receive advanced placement credit for Chemistry 5-6 may not enroll in Chemistry 5-6 or Chemistry 10 for credit without permission of the Department. Advanced placement credit for Chemistry 5-6 will be withdrawn for students who subsequently enroll in Chemistry 5-6 or Chemistry 10.</p>
<p>Prerequisite: Mathematics 3 (or Mathematics 1 and 2). Students who wish to take Mathematics 2 concurrently with Chemistry 5 must consult with a Chemistry 5 instructor. Chemistry 5, or Chemistry 3, and Mathematics 2 or 3 are prerequisites for Chemistry 6. Supplemental course fee required. Dist: SLA.</p>
<p>I promise I won't stay on my pre-med soapbox for long.</p>
<p>The thing about pre-med is, the student needs to decide a) DO they want to be a doctor, no matter what, more than anything, OR b) DO they want to go to Harvard Med School or JH Med School AND c) how important to them is the overall quality of their college experience/ "prestige"/ intangibles. This is what I mean.
If you just want to be a doc, take care of patients, have a good, solid practice, raise your family, house at the lake, and you aren't interested in Park Ave practice or researching the t-alb synthesis gene in gopher rats, then go to the most academically solid state school you can, or good LAC in a town with a med school, then on to your in-state med school, and have a good life - this is the cheapest, easiest, most likely to succeed method of attending med school. If you are from a state with no med school, or very lousy in-state unis, then the LAC method is a little more expensive, but still good, maybe even easier to get into med school, because if you do well, you will probably get better recs and more hand-holding.</p>
<p>If what you really, really want is to go to a presitigious med school (which,by the way, is totally unnecessary, what determines your career is prestige and competitiveness of residency, not med school) then you need to go to a feeder school and do very well - Dartmouth being one of the best feeder schools because of its size.</p>
<p>If you are taking things one step at a time, then you might be like my daughter, and pick a school because it offers you a fine undergrad education, then make your future decisions based on how you do. She is thinking pre-med, but I have already counseled her to plan on 5 years, and if she makes a B in chem or bio, I would caution her to drop pre-med, study what she wants to study, and go back in a post-bac year, if that is what she still wants. We have at least one excellent state med school, no reason for her to go private, but she needs at least a 3.5 to get in, I don't care what under grad she does (friend's son is UVa grad, 3.5, took at least 2 tries), also if you major in something other than science, you need even better grades in science, because they want to be certain you can handle the work.</p>
<p>Pre-med isn't rocket science, most kids admitted to Dart have the academic ability to pass med school, tenacity, perseverance and goal setting is what the med school folks are looking for. Since 100% practically, of those admitted graduate, the med school admissions folks want to be very sure of those that they admit.</p>
<p>Cangel,
[quote]
If you are taking things one step at a time, then you might be like my daughter, and pick a school because it offers you a fine undergrad education, then make your future decisions based on how you do. She is thinking pre-med, but I have already counseled her to plan on 5 years, and if she makes a B in chem or bio, I would caution her to drop pre-med, study what she wants to study, and go back in a post-bac year, if that is what she still wants.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I promise I wasn't eavesdropping on your conversation when I told Chicky pretty much the same thing. I believe that she felt such a sense of relief to realize that she has plenty of options to do what she wants over the next 3 years and still pursue medicine. You should have seen the look on the faces at the last family gathering when she told them she was doing a double major in religion and psychology and do an IB internship but she is so happy about her choices. She's planning on doing the religion study abroad in addition to spanish (she feels now she wants to be fluent instead of just taking courses to fulfill the distribution requirement).</p>
<p>I operate on the mind set that they have almost 45 years between undergrad and retirement so there is plenty of time to do other things. I beleive the most important thing to do in college is to follow your passion by taking courses that really interest and excite you as many roads will lead you to the same destination and everything will eventually fall in place. </p>
<p>Now, if they could only get washing machines in the treehouses so I can stop hearing her whine about having to carry laundry down to the River (at least she doesn't have to beat it on a rock :)).</p>
<p>Yeah, guys, (I said I would get off my soapbox) I've heard so many 40ish physicians (including myself) say how much they regretted not taking more history or poli sci or English or whatever classes in college, because they felt like they were on some sort of treadmill to med school - I have never heard a single one say, boy, I wish I had taken genetics or another chem class. Especially at a place like Dart! Simple logistics may make it inevitable that you are a bio or chem major, but that doesn't mena you need anymore than the minimum for a major.</p>
<p>My Chicky loves French, but now she wishes she knew a little Spanish - she got the language gene from her Dad, she could learn it on her own.</p>
<p>WG,</p>
<p>I am taking the placement test for bio19. What is the test like? I had AP bio with a decent teacher and managed a 4 on the AP test. I reallly want to take bio 19. How competitive is it to get into bio 19, and how much harder is it to get an A than in Bio15?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>I posted this on another thread on the topic:</p>
<p>"It's a very good class. It's demanding, to be sure ( we used to joke that the class, or "bio boot camp" was for "gluttons for biological punishment"); Prof. Smith is essentially teaching you material from culminating courses and perhaps even graduate work--she used to tell us that she showed her exams to the department and they were amazed that we scored so well on them (tests usually medianed around 80 or perhaps a bit above).</p>
<p>The class is very small for an intro science course--usually forty people. What really makes it all worth it, though, are the labs. You get lab sections with less than half the people of a normal lab section, and you get the absolute best lab TAs, as well as a lot of one-on-one attention. You get to use equipment used by no other course at Dartmouth (including insanely good microscopes) and you get to do much better labs. </p>
<p>The workload is intense; I'm not going to lie. A disadvantage of the SA ratings guide for biology and the sciences is that the catalogue is most often written by people who didn't like the class. It does take a lot of work, and you need to fully understand every concept in order to do well on the exams. But you're in the class with people who are willing to work hard and already have a strong bio background, so you had better want to work as well. (My year, I think 160 people took the placement test--many, if not most of them with 5s on the AP test--and 40 got into the class).</p>
<p>Prof. Smith is very nice, but not the most dynamic of professors. However, she is no-nonsense when it comes to biology, and she can explain things very well, imho. You'll learn a lot. Bio19 is also a bit of a proving ground for lab jobs--if you do well, you'll likely get offered one or be able to get one.</p>
<p>As for the exam: don't study. It's very you-know-it-or-you-don't; I didn't study for it, and most of the people who eventually got into the class didn't either. Take that for what it's worth.</p>
<p>Hope that helps."</p>
<p>I'll add in response to your questions that the test is very broad, and very difficult. If I recall correctly, about a 55% or so got you in. </p>
<p>It's about the same difficulty to get an A in Bio15 and Bio19, though some class members might dispute that. The median for Bio19 is usually a B+/A-, while Bio15 usually medians at a B. However, everyone in Bio19 would be near the top of the Bio15 class, so it all evens out. In all likelihood, if you get an A in Bio15 you would have done the same in Bio19, and vice versa.</p>
<p>Thanks. Sounds...fun...haha.</p>