Premed at Princeton vs Columbia vs MIT

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>Hey guys, I'm a columbia'12 (got a likely letter), admitted into MIT and threw Princeton into the bunch just to get a general idea, eventhough I expect a rejection. But my question is which school would be the best place for premed. I want to be able to do research, get a nice science background, get to know professors, and obviously get into Med school. After some research I've came up with this:</p>

<p>MIT: Research is by far the best available in the country in my opinion b/c of their UROP program, which pretty much allows freshmen to seniors to do research and get really involved. Downside, no med school thus junior and senior courses might not be as interesting. And its an engineering school, so i'm concerned that the people there might not be as knowledgeable as other schools with a Med school (this is what i've heard about premed advising, so correct me if i'm wrong) And MIT has grade-deflation, but it prepares you well for you MCAT, so....</p>

<p>Columbia: You get a core, which can make as well-rounded as possible. But that doesn't mean as much as the Med school, where you can cross-register you junior and senior year, which make classes selection really interesting. And you really get to experience how Med school is by talking to med students and learn what it takes to get in. Classes tend to be easier relative to MIT and Princeton, but I don't know. And a lot of classes are taught by TA's which may or maynot suck (sorry for the language).Your in New York City, which i don't know how much a factor this could be to premed...</p>

<p>Princeton: Not as specialized as the other school. But you get really attention from the professors vs classes that are taught by TA's. But the downside, major grade-deflation, and unlike MIT, there seems to be some competitiveness between students. And No med school.</p>

<p>So as you guys can probable see, I'm really torn about which school would be the best place for premed students, even though all three a great schools. This thread got a little long, but input would be great. Thanks!</p>

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<p>MIT
10chars</p>

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<p>Don't go to MIT for premed. Only 73.5% of their students who apply to medical school are accepted. Even with very harsh grade deflation, Princeton can boast a 95% acceptance rate.</p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/parents-orientation.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/parents-orientation.pdf&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.princeton.edu/hpa/handouts/2006Statistics.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/hpa/handouts/2006Statistics.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>You are doing a good job of investigating your options, but I think you are focussing on some unimportant issues, and ignoring some vital ones. </p>

<p>Medical school vs no medical school. Does not matter. You can get great preparation for med school at pure undergraduate colleges, and at colleges with graduate programs but not medical school. Even if you go somewhere with a medical school, you will probably take only 0-2 courses there as an undergrad. You will be much better off taking courses aimed at undergrads and graduate students. </p>

<p>New York is neutral as far as preparation for medical school is concerned.</p>

<p>All three can give you a terrific undergrad experience, but the differences among the colleges should be your main concern. Location: Cambridge, vs Manhattan, vs suburban NJ. Choice of courses: MIT has its GIR's, Columbia has its core and Princeton has its own requirements.</p>

<p>MIT has had uneven performance in med school admissions, sometimes lower than one would expect for a college at its level. Recent data here
Preprofessional</a> Stats - MIT Careers Office</p>

<p>also, there seems to be a shortage of premed advisors, from the MIT newspaper
Woes</a> of a Premed - The Tech</p>

<p>I am skeptical of "grade deflation" reputations. The data, which you can usually find by spending a bit of time looking over the websties, frequently does not show what one expects. MIT gives a relatively high proportion of A's. Princeton's grades are lower than a few years ago, but still quite high.</p>

<p>It is a good idea to look at the med school admissions stats for the places you are considering, since that will be you in a few years. Stats can be manipulated by colleges that screen who is allowed to apply. I don't think any of these three places play those games.</p>

<p>Do well at any of these places and you will have a great preparation for med school.</p>

<p>All will give you abundant research opportunities.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the info guys, so if i'm reading this correct, you guys are telling me not to worry about med school and focus on what feels right to me. Good point.</p>

<p>But the point other people are making, especially the Columbia folks, is that because of the grade deflation, there seems to be really competitive atmosphere at Princeton, not as much as Harvard but that's a different story. :) Some people at MIT are also arguing that even though the classes are tough at MIT, it really fosters collaboration between students, and it is common to see a lot of freshmen working together is small groups doing their problem sets. So, how cutthroat are the premeds at Princeton?</p>

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<p>When I visited, I was told that the engineers and pre-med hopefuls (Princeton doesn't actually have a pre-med program) are some of the most tight-knit groups at Princeton. They study together, do problem sets together, eat together... at least that's what I've heard.</p>

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<p>I agree with afan: whether or not there is a med school associated with the college/Univ. is irrelevant.</p>

<p>I also am very skeptical of med school acceptance rates as these are often artificially raised by advising people with "weaker" stats not to apply so it may not be comparing apples to apples.</p>

<p>Also: med school adcoms have done this before. They know what schools have grade inflation/deflation. They also look at the courses you took, not just GPA. Taking organic chemistry at your local Junior College over the summer and making an A will keep you out of med school. Taking it with you fellow students at Princeton/MIT/Columbia and getting a B is fine.(getting a C is a little tougher)</p>

<p>Bottom line: to get into med school you have to compete with smart people and do well, not put yourself into a less competitive environment and do well</p>

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<p>That is definitely true Aardvark, it really does come down whether or not you can run with the big boys. Thanks for advice guys, anyone else want to contribute to the conversation?</p>

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<p>Medical school admission is more complex than this thread would suggest. I'm a physician; I went to college in the NE and Med. school in the South. Most medical schools consider a factor in admissions which is irrelevant at the undergraduate level: they try to accept students likely to stay in the area after graduation, because all state schools and most private schools receive significant state funding. I believe one of the things that helped me get in to a school in my state was being a resident of that state; I practice in that state too.
Whether an undergraduate school has a medical school makes no difference at all, IMO, to your admission chances, but as you point out, you do get to observe and experience the environment of both. I agree that the MOST IMPORTANT thing is the undergraduate experience, and you're comparing three very disparate schools in terms of their environments. Boston/Cambridge is the biggest college campus around (thirty schools, 400,000 kids); NY is as urban as it gets, and Princeton is the quintessential suburban ivy campus town. You'll one day regret picking a college only because of what kind of graduate school chances it'll afford; I still regret leaving college a year early just to get started on my career.
My son is going to MIT next year, even though their medical school admission statistics seem to suffer in comparison to other elite schools - could this be because of the relatively high percentage of international matriculants who return to their countries after graduation? No one will look at an MIT student applying to any type of graduate school and wonder if he or she worked hard.
Good luck.</p>

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<p>All 3 schools will be challenging. Put a bunch of pre-meds in an Organic Chem class and there will always be massive competition for the A's. Go to the school that feels right for YOU, work hard, and ENJOY!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Taking organic chemistry at your local Junior College over the summer and making an A will keep you out of med school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not true. Plenty of Princeton kids who wouldn't be able to cut it in Princeton Orgo take this route and do fine. It doesn't look great, but it definitely won't keep you out of med school. </p>

<p>There's a definite distinction between competitive and cut-throat. Competitive means that all of the students in the class are trying as hard as they can to get an A or A-. With only 88 A's and A-'s available to a class of 250, Princeton Orgo students are extremely competitive. </p>

<p>Cut throat IMO means attempting to sabotage someone else's chance to do well. Think checking out all of the orgo books from the chemistry library, or seeing someone's study guide left in the lecture hall after class and shredding it. This sort of thing doesn't happen at Princeton.</p>

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<p>My statement about Orgo at JC's wasn't meant to be absolute, just stated that way to make the point. If you looked at the # of princeton students who took Orgo at JC with an A and compared their acceptance rate to those at Princeton who took Orgo at Princeton then there would be a very large difference, although you are right. It probably wouldn't be zero. </p>

<p>The point is that to state that you deserve a spot in med school by finding ways to not have to compete with your peers is a substantial drag on your application.</p>

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<p>This reply is incorrect, Princeton does have pre-meds, I've taught and advised plenty of them!</p>

<p>See here for good information about pre-med at Princeton.
<a href="http://www.princeton.edu/hpa/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/hpa/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Regarding Orgo during the summer sometimes students do this because of the difficulties in fitting all their major requirements in as well as two semesters of Orgo in their sophomore year.</p>

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<p>Regarding the "competitive" atmosphere you mentioned, I'd like to throw my $.02 in that when at MIT, I actually felt that despite the collaboration people stress, there is still plenty of competitiveness. That being said, I've also felt some here at Princeton, but not even close to a high level, nor enough to make me uncomfortable. It is not evident in normal contact w/ your classmates or friends, and people are still VERY collaborative and good about working together.</p>

<p>Also, I don't believe grade deflation is a deal-breaker, especially when it comes to pre-med. Most times in physics, chem, bio etc. you aren't going to have more than 35% A's to begin with. In most cases, you get curved up. My last "real B" on a physics exam was an "A" after the curve.</p>

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<p>Grade deflation doesn't really effect science classes all that much. Also, Princeton does do significantly better than MIT in medical school placement. </p>

<p>Honestly, any of these schools will set you up great for a great medical school. I'm obviously biased because I'm at Princeton but all of these schools will prepare you well for the MCATs/Med school and offer a great academic experience. All of these schools offer very different experiences and I really think that should be the sole factor in your decision. Suppose you end up wanting to major in Classics, well then MIT would kinda be a terrible place to be. Or if you don't like being in the city, being at Columbia wouldn't be too great. </p>

<p>Also, I really would warn against choosing a school solely based on the assumption that you will be a premed because from my experience, most of the kids who come in as premeds switch to other things. And this isn't due to them being weeded out by premed classes but rather they just fall in love with some other subject/field. </p>

<p>And now for a little Princeton sell:
Competitiveness: I don't quite know how you got that competitive vibe from campus but from my experience here and with friends at MIT, I would have to say that Princeton is not more competitive in any sense of the word. </p>

<p>Research: Freshman can do research at Princeton as well and keep in mind, the required junior papers and senior thesis basically ensure that EVERYONE has to do research during their time here.</p>