Premed/ Prelaw at Cornell

<p>What's the point of going to Cornell if you're a premed or (especially) if you're a pre-law?
I'm pretty sure GPA is the most important factor in admissions to law and med school (law school especially), so what's the point in going to a school like Cornell where your GPA will likely be below 3.7?</p>

<p>With your logic, no pre med or pre laws ever should attend any selective college, right? </p>

<p>LOL</p>

<p>Not at all. Many selective universities are renowned for grade inflation (Harvard for example) unlike Cornell, which has grade deflation. So instead of being condescending, I’d appreciate a legitimate response.</p>

<p>Too bad Cornell doesn’t have grade deflation, so your logic is invalid.</p>

<p>i think law schools know all about the grade inflation and which schools are most guilty of it. Plus, they see your LSAT scores and consider your major. An applicant with a harder major at a tougher school will not be at a disadvantage over an applicant with a 4.0 in an easier major from a school that grades easily. I had a tough major from a school well known for harsh grading. Compared to my law school classmates, I probably had one of the lowest GPAs and highest LSAT scores. It is all taken in to consideration.</p>

<p>Mathstarftw, it is well known that Cornell has tough grading, and that, as a whole, their students have unusually low gpas for the caliber of students they are.</p>

<p>Barfly, do you feel that law schools appropriately give credit for difficulty of school/courses or they underestimate how difficult the curriculum is?
Also, if you don’t mind, could you please tell what your GPA was and where you got in/where you’re going to law school?</p>

<p>flargaharg, I graduated from law school over 25 years ago. GPA was 3.3 from Purdue in science (well, Purdue was on a weird 6 point scale, but it equates to a 3.3). Purdue is notoriously tough grading-that was actually the highest GPA in my graduating class in my major. My LSAT was good. I had also worked for 5 years prior to law school. Got in everywhere I applied, which was Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, U Houston, not sure where else. I know it is much harder now to get in, but schools still look at major and difficulty. We were told the first day of law school that there are auto admits who are admitted based on a formula using LSAT and GPA, and the rest are admitted based on a holistic review. An interesting major or life experience or job experience makes a difference. It is still like this at most law schools because law school classes are strongly discussion based, so the school wants diversity in undergrad degrees, job experience, age, etc. Here’s an example about why it matters: Imagine that students in Torts class are studying a case where an oil rig blowout killed and injured several workers. All the students are straight out of college with English and Poly Sci degrees. Not interesting. But if one student was a petroleum engineer prior to law school, and one worked for an insurance company and one has a nursing degree and one was widowed when her husband was killed on the job,…… the class discussions get wild! That is exactly how it was for me and exactly why law schools admit at least part of their first year class by a holistic review and look for diversity in education and life experience. </p>

<p>Funny story - at the orientation, I was standing in a group of new students I had just met, and one student said “This will be a new experience for all of us because in law school, we won’t all get all A’s, but none of us has EVER had a B before”. I asked why she thought none of us had ever gotten a B, and she said if we had, we wouldn’t be in law school. I told the group if they ever needed advice on how to handle B’s and even C’s, just come to me.</p>

<p>In any event, go where you want and major in what you want. Plan on a career in case you change your mind about law school. “Pre-law” is not a career. If you do want to go to law school but don’t get in, wait a couple years and try again after gaining some work experience. It will help your chances. And you will appreciate law school much more after being in the working world for a while.</p>

<p>BTW, Cornell is not listed as one of the tougher grading schools, at least not in rankings I have seen. One ranking that didn’t list Cornell said this about the #1 harshest grading school: “#1. Purdue University. Getting an A is hard for the Boilermakers with an average GPA that has hovered around 2.8 for over 30 years. Purdue doesn’t even seem to know that grade inflation exists in America.” According to the article, Brown is the easiest grader with 2/3 getting A’s. Geeze!</p>

<p>so much misinformation here. fyi, i graduated from cornell in Econ and attend a top 6 law school now.</p>

<p>first, from my experience, your gpa is much more a function of your major + course selection, not what school you attend. you can rest assured that it is exponentially easier to get above 3.7 gpa in Econ at Cornell, compared to getting the same mark in Physics or Engineering at a State school.</p>

<p>second, tons of people change their mind while in college regarding their career choices. especially considering the fact that many law school grads are getting screwed over in the current job market, it would be very wise to attend a top college and explore career options outside of law.</p>

<p>what i am saying is that attending a top school gives you more options to work with.</p>

<p>What?! Law Schools won’t give if its Cornell, they care a lot about GPA. Do you think they would accept a 3.3 Cornellian over a Harvard 3.6 because Cornell’s harder. I told myself Cornell has grade deflation to make myself look better last semester but in honesty, there is no grade deflation. The grading is pretty tough but no grade deflation. It’s just a myth we say to make ourselves look better, thing is if you want your GPA to be higher, you have got to work hard for it. But most premeds/prelaws know this and work hard for that GPA. And a Cornell education is very rigorous and rewarding.</p>

<p>honestly, coming out of school such as cornell, one shouldn’t even consider attending a law school outside of top 14. (even then, it is a gamble)</p>

<p>just go attend a top college, do well there, and strive to get a good entry level gig out of school. That path beats out law school, unless you attend a very tippy top law school.</p>

<p>Law schools care about GPA, yes, but there are other paths to law school. You have to be a top students wherever you attend undergrad, but my point is that the law schools do not just compare GPA to GPA between schools. They understand that the GPA numbers mean something totally different at different schools. Also, top law firms do not just hire from top law schools. I’ve done a lot of recruiting in my years at big firm, and we always hire from our 3 local schools. Good PR, good chance of keeping the new lawyers who already have local ties, and, honestly, we had better luck with top students from any law school then any students from top law schools. In my department, we would not even look at students from one particular tippy top law school because the attitude and work ethic were lacking. (This wasn’t a one-time thing. It was every student every year from that school, except one guy who worked his tail off and everyone liked him but he couldn’t pass the bar). Those students from that law school could find a place at our firm to be sure, but not in my department. So IF you want to go to law school, choose a major you like that can lead to a career you like (as I said, pre-law is not a career) at a school you like, work your tail off, get as good a GPA as you can, and maybe in 4 years you will still want to go to law school. If so, apply. Good luck!</p>

<p>If you have aspiration of going to top law schools, you will need to preserve your GPA, just look at every top tier law school’s GPA. Not every major or course at Cornell is hard. Same course taught by different professors could have different degrees of difficulties. </p>

<p>My kid is a philosophy major, not the easiest major at Cornell, and she also happened to picked very difficult courses last semester. She is one for learning for the sake of learning. Through sheer will power and hard work she did maintain her GPA, but I told her to ease up this spring semester and be more strategic on her course selections.</p>

<p>My kid always knew she wanted to go to law school. If we thought getting into law school was the only goal, she wouldn’t need to go to Cornell. Our objective was for her to get a good education, have other options if she should change her mind and have good network (strong alumni connection) if/when she starts to practice. Cornell just seem to be a good fit for her.</p>

<p>I am monitoring law school admission and job placement. It appears law applicants are down about 10% and tippy top law school job placement is still close to 100%.</p>

<p>Thanks for the input guys.
Now let’s take a look at premed. You have to take certain science courses and they are notoriously tough. Wouldn’t it make more sense to go to state school (it would also be much cheaper)
I understand the “you might change your mind” argument but let’s say you’re 100 percent sure</p>

<p>honestly, if you have what it takes, you will make it to med school regardless of which college you attend. people like to blame schools, grading curves, and other circumstances for their failures, but really, it’s up to the individual to make things happen.</p>

<p>many of my friends from cornell are in med school now. that being said, if you can’t fathom going into any other careers than medicine, it would make sense going to a state school for cheap and getting high grades at the state school may be easier compared to a high-end school.</p>

<p>I had a web link that shows Cornell pre-med is strong regarding medical school admissions under the thread ‘Cornell Facts - external and objective’. (I couldn’t find the web URL now. It will be nice if anyone has it and can post it here.) The thread was last updated on January 4, 2014 but the whole thread was removed by someone… Does anyone know when or why it was removed?</p>

<p>I am afraid people need to always copy links they need, just in case threads you assumed you could go back to were removed for no reason.</p>

<p>Here to weigh in on the med school thing. Cornell science classes are tough, but no tougher than science classes anywhere else. Also, they’re graded on a curve, which means that about thirty percent of the students get in the A range (A-, A, or A+). A lot more get a B+. If you think about it, that’s pretty good; it’s pretty easy to get a B+ or higher if you put the time in. If you really put in the time and effort (which you should, since you’ll be working a hell of a lot harder in med school anyway), it’s not difficult to get an A. The point is that the grade deflation for which Cornell is notorious is, as others have said, only an unfounded myth (even when it comes to the sciences). </p>

<p>If anything, I think going to Cornell and doing well (which I cannot emphasize enough is very possible) helps in an application more than doing well at schools which are known for inflation, like Harvard. I happen to know that the admissions dean at my top 20 medical school thinks Cornell is especially difficult. Although the dean is wrong, a student who does well at Cornell looks all the more impressive. </p>

<p>Also, for what it’s worth, a lot of my friends at Cornell were premeds. We managed to study and do well and still have a great college experience. Most of us are at top med schools now. Also for what it’s worth, although people say where you go to college doesn’t matter, I don’t entirely believe that. Well over half - I’d guess around 75% or so, actually - of my medical school class went to top undergraduate colleges.</p>