<p>Excuses, excuses, excuses, I am tired of excuses.</p>
<p>Let me distill the essence of my comments into two factoids (about one individual student, if I may):</p>
<ol>
<li><p>By working hard, you can improve your grades and EC performance, irrespectice of your your family income, high school quality, area of the country.</p></li>
<li><p>Students who have better grades/ECs have a better chance of getting into colleges of their choice.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>That’s all I am trying to say.</p>
<p>The statistics quoted above show that there is a distinct advantage to going to a private school in Ivy League admissions, not disadvantage, particularly for top students. And you may be tired of the so-called excuses, but schools in lesser income areas do not provide the same opportunity for ECs or academics as private schools, boarding or otherwise. No excuse, fact. Improving on ECs, especially sports, takes money. And lots of it for most sports. Another fact. Obviously, there are some ECs that can be improved upon without money. But anything that is done outside of the school day requires, at a minimum, transportion, which, again, costs money. Where money is tight, opportunity is harder to come by. </p>
<p>I have two kids, one graduated from a prep school, one will graduate this year from our local public. I have seen the difference first hand. No excuses, reality.</p>
<p>Follow this link to statistics about Penn admissions</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.alumni.upenn.edu/aca/2008DeansNewsletter.pdf[/url]”>http://www.alumni.upenn.edu/aca/2008DeansNewsletter.pdf</a></p>
<p>A link to an interesting (and relevant to this discussion) document was posted recently in the Parent’s section of this forum:</p>
<p><a href=“http://web.mac.com/shamuskhan/iWeb/Site/Work_files/gettingin.pdf[/url]”>http://web.mac.com/shamuskhan/iWeb/Site/Work_files/gettingin.pdf</a></p>
<p>I encourage all to read it, as well as the NYT article I link to later in that thread (Thread title: “Elites”):</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/nyregion/24choice.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/nyregion/24choice.html</a></p>
<p>there were a lot of interesting things in those statistics one of the biggest ones being that 16.95% got in but when you compared that to the legacies it was like 35% which is in my opinion a lot for legacy. Also 39.8% were private school in this one which just supports the statistics posted earlier about how private schools help your chances.</p>
<p>The Penn statistics reinforce the private school advantage. 2,841 of the 3,888 students admitted (73%) attended secondary schools which did not provide rankings. Premed4, 39.8% of enrolled students were private school graduates.</p>
<p>I remember reading somewhere, premed4, that Penn requires legacy applicants to apply in the early round of admissions, if the applicants want a “bump” from their parents’ status.</p>
<p>I assume that public schools rank, and most private schools don’t. Does anyone know of any public schools which do not provide student ranking data to colleges?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, no huge advantage. It’s that possibly a little advantage that drives the parents’ actions. They just want to get the best of everything - as they see and as they can reach - for their kids. If the cost of attendance is all on the student, then there indeed should be a thorough cost benifit analysis, but since the cost is at least partially on their parents, many of them are willing to - if they can - pay that extra just to gain their kids’ that possible edge. They are just not creative enough to know how to give their kids a better gift than a better education as they perceive.</p>
<p>My public school had a tougher grading system than this…</p>
<p>And no. Colleges probably won’t consider it. You’re either in the percentage of top studenst they look at or you’re not.</p>
<p>Periwinkle – Our competitive public school does not rank. It is becoming more common. When you read what % of college applicants are in the top 10%, it is also important to keep in mind what % are ranked. It might be around 60% or less ranked.</p>
<p>Good point, Burb. In the Penn statistics posted above, almost 17K (out of ~23K) came from non-ranking schools. Acceptance rate for both was almost identical at 16.9%.</p>
<p>Question is whether giving colleges less information puts your best students at a disadvantage, while improving the chances of others. Is that a good thing? What do you think?</p>
<p>Many high schools provide a School Profile to help colleges interpret the competitiveness of an applicant within the context of the high school. Typical information in the profile would be SAT, SAT subject tests, ACT scores. Prior college matriculation. National Merit and other awards typically won at the school. APs and honors offered. Many will also include grade distributions for typical classes taken by Juniors. This is one of the reasons Junior year is so important.<br>
I don’t think that going to a competitive school puts an applicant at a disadvantage for college. A disadvantage can develop if an applicant is not thriving at his/her current school, regardless of what kind of school – public, day, boarding, etc. An applicant needs to stand out when applying to competitive colleges, and someone who is not thriving will usually not stand out.<br>
Having gone through the college application process last year, I’ll pass along my 2cents. Pay particular attention to match schools because the probability is that your child will be selecting from among these schools. I observed applicants going for too many reaches, a likely or two that were not that well liked, and then filling in with matches that were not as thought through.<br>
If you can, pick your boarding school list to include schools in which your children can thrive. The rest will fall into place.</p>
<p>Burb Parent, in this area, the private schools generally don’t rank, and the public schools do. Even the schools which don’t rank sometimes will give colleges some clue about the students, such as deciles or “top 20%”, or such, rather than the plain numerical ranking. Some high schools name multiple valedictorians.</p>
<p>I do believe colleges compare applicants from the same school, so even if a school doesn’t inform a college that Jane is 1st in her class, and Joe 17th, the colleges are aware of the candidates’ relative standing. I’ve read that the colleges calculate the grade point average, as high schools vary wildly in the courses counted in GPA and the weighting of the courses. If you exclude gym and health class, for example, Jane and Joe might be tied.</p>
<p>Dakshina, the Khan chapter was very interesting on the college placement process at top boarding schools. If your child is the top student at a public high school, and interviews well, and has impressive ECs, he may garner a dozen acceptances from top colleges. However, he can’t attend a dozen colleges, and the difference between him and the next five students may be infinitesimal. I think the college placement process, as described in the chapter, is more humane than the “winner take all” model. I wish more public schools could practice such enrollment management, but I don’t think that will ever happen.</p>
<p>Advantage or disadvantage? That’s the question we could debate forever. My “practical” guideline follows (take the advice at your own discretion and risk): If you are and will be a “super star” (top few) through high school and your school routinely send its super stars to colleges you are shooting for, then stay. Going to a top BS would likely change that status of yours, which could translate to a disadvantage to you. The advantage of the top BS is its OVERALL strong college placement. Depending on your situation it could be a boost for many but might be a drag to some (e.g. PS “super stars” with no hooks like athelete or URM). The trickest part however is that you can only take one path not both, which means you need to know whether you’d maintain your “super star” status 2-3years before college application time. So, go to a top BS for a great education coupled with a great college placement, but don’t go for a passport to any Ivy League school, which is as you know now not garanteed.</p>
<p>I think it is important to apply the above advice to choosing your “short list” of BS’s as well. If class percentiles are important to you, then you have to take into account where you might stand in comparison to the academic competition that you will likely encounter at that particular BS. I perceive considerable variation in what it would take to stay in the top 10% or 15% of the top 10 BS’s.</p>
<p>^But the matriculation rates to top colleges vary among schools, which means being in top 10% in one school might get you in HYP but in another barely an Ivy. In the end, if your goal is only one of a few colleges, the likelihood of being disspointed is high.</p>
<p>DAndrew: Do you see all that much difference in the college maticulations of the 10 BS’s that are most often discusssed on this Board? I didn’t look all that closely but thought they were “pretty much” comprable, although some seemed to “feed into” one particular school. Georgetown seemed huge for all the BS’s.</p>
<p>Check it out for yourself: [Boarding</a> School Stats : Matriculation Stats](<a href=“http://matriculationstats.org/boarding-school-stats]Boarding”>http://matriculationstats.org/boarding-school-stats) But I guess you can still say they are comparable in some measures. Don’t forget though most of these 10 are hard to get in and likely one doesn’t have the “luxury” to choose from multiple offers which one to attend. And FA could further complicate things and minimize the flexibility. As for rigor and competitiveness, I think HADES plus Groton, Lawrenceville are comparable. Don’t know much of about the other 3, but I don’t suppose they are much easier.</p>
<p>Periwinkle: *I assume that public schools rank, and most private schools don’t. Does anyone know of any public schools which do not provide student ranking data to colleges? *</p>
<p>Stuyvesant does not rank students.</p>