Preparatory certificate programs

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>My son, a HS junior, decided this summer that he wanted to audition for and complete the NEC prep certificate Level IV program in the next two years. He auditioned yesterday, and received very good feedback and encouragement to complete the program, was waived from Theory 1 and 2, but still has a full year of Saturday classes for the next two years (three classes, one lesson, and one ensemble; plus, there will be work between sessions, and solo prep too).</p>

<p>He already has a very full and rigorous academic schedule, school instrumental commitments (two jazz ensembles, one orchesta, one wind ensemble), pit band (through the fall musical), plus senior district/allstate auditions, weekly lessons in two instruments, and five students he teaches.</p>

<p>It seems like too much to me, but he is emphatic about wanting to do this, and he thrives on too much activity, rather than too little. I'm just exhausted thinking about it, and worried that he doesn't realize how big a commitment this is.</p>

<p>Do music schools look differently on kids who have completed a certificate program? Does it put them in a different "class" so to speak? I know my son wants to do this regardless of what the music schools think, but it just seems like such a huge commitment. I was wondering if the experienced parents or students had any advice/encouragement about whether it was really a wise move.</p>

<p>Thanks so much.</p>

2

<p>The strict conservatories really focus the majority of their "scanners" on the audition. Therefore, if you feel the certificate program will help S's audition preparedness and repertoire, great! If you feel all that activity may detract from that, then not so great.</p>

<p>Something to keep in mind is that once they get into a school, most schools make them take placement tests in theory, ear training, etc., regardless of any certificates or AP classes so there's no free ride there.</p>

<p>Once again, one must figure out what works best for each individual. It's all a fine balance, unfortunately limited by the rotational velocity of the "third rock from the sun."</p>

3

<p>After nearly burning out on too much freshmen year of HS, my S ended up dropping most school activities, and focusing on the outside opportunities, because they gave him a deeper experience. It didn't go over really well with the band when S dropped out of marching, etc. But his instrument (horn) doesn't really march, and the mellophone was messing up his embouchure. We did exactly what IZ says - focused on the activities he thought would help him improve his musicianship. The larger youth orchestra gave him exposure to rep that still helps him today. He did jazz band only in middle school, since it's a class in HS and there was no room for it in his schedule. He still enjoys jazz (on piano, usually) and gets together with friends for a jam session whenever he's home, but since he isn't majoring in jazz, he didn't clutter his schedule with it.</p>

<p>The hardest part was the pressure put upon him by other school groups, who really liked having a horn player who knew what he was doing. He agreed to be a "ringer" for a community orchestra and the school's full orchestra, as long as he didn't have to attend weekly out-of-school rehearsals. It was still a difficult balancing act, as they always wanted just a little bit more than he wanted to give.</p>

<p>He took AP theory in junior year, and got a 5. He didn't get any college credit for it, but it still helped because it made college "easier". It also helped him become a better musician.</p>

<p>I do think colleges look at resumes a bit, to see the depth of the student. Therefore, I think college prep programs are valued more than having only HS music classes. It shows a seriousness of purpose, and a depth of understanding. Conservatories, like other colleges, are looking for kids that have talent and ability - but also drive, and potential for completion. I do believe that my S's resume was taken into consideration at all the schools he applied to. They all requested one. At Juilliard, it was in front of the judges at the audition, and they discussed it with him.</p>

<p>I'm guessing that if my S were in your S's position, he would jump at the chance to do the Saturday program, and drop or pull back from some of the HS commitments. He might be able to talk with a high school teacher, explain his dilemma, and get them to help him decide. Maybe making them part of the decision, and trusting them to act on your S's best interests, will make them less resentful of being lower on the totem pole.</p>

4

<p>Every Saturday for her junior and senior years, my D got up at 5:30 am in order to get a 6:30 train so she could make it to the first 9am class. If she was lucky, she would be home at 8pm. She always came home excited with a big smile. She also played once a week in the local State U orchestra and was gone from 6-930 pm. During the week, she had a daily study section that meet before the regular school hours and an AP classes after regular hours. My D loved her schedule and activities - - at least until auditions arrived and scheduling became nearly impossible.</p>

<p>Incidentally, my D never intended to go to a music school. It wasn't until the beginning of senior year when she realized she would not be satisfied with an academic college experience. </p>

<p>The pre-college conservatory certificate is of no value. It is the experience and training which is valuable.</p>

5

<p>My son did the Royal School of Music program that allowed students to go through "grades." The final grade being 8. It is recognized on this side of the Atlantic and provided. Examiners would come out twice a year from London. Theory was part of it. I am not a musician but I thought my son liked the process and it provided him with benchmarks from elementary school through his completion of grade 8 in his 2nd year of high school. He did the get up early thing every Saturday for Youth Orchestra for 5 years and another group in the evenings once a week for 2 years and various other music "jobs" along the way. The way I looked at it, it kept him out of trouble and very focused. His activity sheet that he did up for the colleges looked great!!!! No doubt about that. I tried to get him to quit, just to see what his reaction would be through about middle school. Once I purchased his very own oboe, that was it. He liked it all. Made my life easy. If your son has a program he is interested in, I think it is a good thing. I must say my son got into every school where he applied.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for the responses. Son thinks, as Binx's, and we agree, that the experience would be invaluable, so he is willing to also get up early, and get himself there every Saturday. He did decide to drop one of the jazz ensembles, but he had planned to do that regardless, because he found the level of muscianship pretty frustrating last year. Two of the other three ensembles are mostly in school commitments (although there are occasional after school or weekend rehearsals or performances). </p>

<p>It's good to hear that your daughter survived, Edad, even with AP classes. That is, of course, a bit of my concern (where <em>does</em> that schoolwork fit into all this?), but I guess it can be done.</p>

7

<p>If it helps him be a better musician that in turn will help him give a better college audition...but...a good friend of mine has a daughter who is an excellent musician, and just about killed herself completing the Pre-College Diploma that Eastman School of Music offers community members. However, she didn't get in Eastman -- much to her disappointment!</p>

<p>It seems like all that matters in the bitter end is that audition.</p>

8

<p>Blech. That's a terrible story, Weenie. So sorry for your friend's daughter.</p>

9

<p>Yea, and that's not the worst of it. She was so sure she'd get into Eastman (which is foolish) she barely applied to any other schools and ended up in a really less-than-satisfactory situation. Darn. She's a great kid too.</p>

10

<p>As scary a thought as it might be to parents, students who have high musical aspirations may want to think about cutting back a bit on the academics. I am not talking about scrapping all the AP classes, but the kid who wants to get into a conservatory level program doesn't need to take calculus and AP Chemistry. Grades and transcript matter to an extent for conservatory admissions, but not nearly as much as the audition. If students are trying to do the prep necessary for these auditions AND take a very heavy load at high school, they may find that the music piece suffers somewhat. </p>

<p>My son was set on going to a high level music program. He knew he would audition at conservatories, but was also extremely interested in Rice. We knew academics would be a factor in his admission there. He was a very strong student. However, as high school progressed he was having trouble finding enough time to devote to his studies AND do all the music things that he needed to be doing. After much discussion he made the decision to quit math after 10th grade. He had completed pre-calc and would have started on calculus, but it was a very demanding course that he felt he didn't need for music school. We called the Rice admissions office to find out how they would view this. They said that him not taking math beyond pre-calc would NOT adversely affect his admission to the music school. By cutting out math, he was able to leave school almost an hour earlier all during his junior year. Not only did he have more time for practicing, he also had less homework. </p>

<p>During his senior year he made some other adjustments in his schedule that allowed him to not go to school until about 11:15 during the first semester. During 2nd semester, he took more classes but still had an hour time slot during the day for practicing at school. He was admitted to and attended Eastman. He was waitlisted at Rice due to extremely limited studio space. (Only 2 undergrads admitted on his instrument that year.)</p>

<p>I know as parents that we want our kids to cover all the bases, but sometimes I think that they get spread so thin that they can't be highly engaged in any of them. Just my thoughts.</p>

11

<p>I agree shennie. If a kid is determined to go to conservatory, something may have to give. And why not? Would someone destined for a major league athletic team put it aside for math? At a certain point they just can't!</p>

12

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<p>Same here. Actually all of the schools DS applied to required a resume and a repertoire list. His orchestral experiences outside of school made the repertoire list much richer than it would have been without it. He didn't do the precollege certificate program as it met during an evening. BUT he did spend from 2-9 every Sunday for four years in precollege ensembles and chamber music groups. He also took the music theory ap course, and also received no credit for it...but it did make the first 3 semesters of music theory on the college level a bit easier, he says. His ensemble playing definitely improved his overall playing which improved his auditions. My son, like Binx's, gave up all school EC's after ninth grade, except that he did stay in his high school wind ensemble (no marching band... DS wouldnt' walk across the street for that). His "sport" was his music. I say, if the kid wants to do the certificate program and has the commitment to do so...go for it.</p>

13

<p>Interesting comments.</p>

<p>We have only been told by one school, Rice, that resume and records would be a factor. And even then only a minor one. The rest have pretty much said its 100% audition.</p>

<p>Glad to hear the other side saying that it might be a bit different in practice.</p>

<p>I still doubt the Certificate program on the resume will help at all. But participating in the program could very well improve ones chances at audition time.</p>

14

<p>Being in a prep program and/or youth orchestra is not only a great way to get performance experience and coaching, but it is also a way to make important contacts, for summer programs and conservatories. Juilliard, for example, does not require its pre-Juilliard students to send in CD's for prescreening for the conservatory -- that is a major advantage -- and familiarity by the teachers with a student can be a helpful factor at auditions.</p>

15

<p>We found that the resume and repertoire lists were primarily used as conversation starters during auditions. Daughter was asked questions like "I see that you had some lessons with X. What did you like or not like about his methods?" or "I see that you played piece Y with your youth symphony. What did you find most challenging about it?" </p>

<p>In situations where you audition live with one or more perspective teachers present, they want to assess not only your level of playing, but also what it would be like working with you and how well you think on your feet. Although the admissions departments may not admit it, a resume that demonstrates prior achievement in high-level programs with the right teachers can help convince perspective college teachers that you are not only talented, but also teachable and worth their time. So, while it is pretty much 100% audition at many places, a good resume and a repertoire list with the right pieces on it can help that audition run more smoothly.</p>

16

<p>At one conservatory, we were told how faculty evaluates students. First, they were expected to give each audition a score of 0-10. Second, there was a single question to answer: did the student belong at the school? A poor audition would not likely result in an offer of admission. A great audition would be meaningless, if the faculty member did not want the student.</p>

17

<p>I have always thought the "100%" on audition to be suspect. We know two fantastic sax players, both near the same high level.</p>

<p>One is very outgoing, a leader in the department, easy to teach, as well as being exceptionally talented. The other, really equally as talented (if not more so), is quite shy, reserved, etc.</p>

<p>The first one got an offer of admit to Eastman, and the second did not. </p>

<p>I have always thought there has got to be some "X" factor that is beyond just the audition.</p>

18

<p>Great input on the resume advantages and audition questioning.</p>

<p>Anymore information in that area would be great. Nice to know a really nice resume could actually be of benefit.</p>

<p>If you already have studied with the professor in summer or masterclasses or in a sample lesson, I would suspect they would have a good idea if they think it would be a good working relationship.</p>

19

<p>Totally agree that a strong resume helps. D auditioned at a big name school last year. She was under lots of stress, as the airline lost her luggage containing audition clothing, sheet music, and reedmaking equipment. She got her luggage one hour before the audition. The audition started out poorly, but the kind teacher told her to take a deep breath and try a different reed. Instead of the 20 minutes scheduled, the audition stretched to 40 minutes. The teacher was very interested in her, because of the strong resume. I don't think he would have let her recover from the initial problems if she did not have it. She was accepted there, with a nice merit scholarship to boot. This may not happen at every school, but at certain places it will.</p>

20

<p>I wonder if anyone has an idea what they think stands out on a resume enough for a professor to take notice and give auditioner a better or second look?</p>

<p>Certainly most things on the resume musically is on most resumes and they are not likely looking at academic items during an audition.</p>