<p>
[quote]
How about this. I won't say that Berkeley can't deliver those moments if you all stop saying that my Princeton education was mere prestige. It wasn't.
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I don't recall anyone saying that. The issue is quality of networks. Some feel only an elite school can provide a valuable network. Others, including me, feel that every school, indeed every life experience, provides a networking opportunity. These networks are simply impossible to rank. Just as the educational mentors one is exposed to throughout life come from a variety of places and their impact & importance would be nearly impossible to rank. </p>
<p>I also don't think money has been brought into the network discussion. A toll collector on the NJ Turnpike will make more $$$ than many graduates who stick with comparative lit as a career choice. I doubt that the $$$ is driving them.</p>
<p>Alumother: In 1976, one of my cousins was an English professor at Princeton. A year before, he had told me (when I told him who my advisor was and what I was taking): "You know, the average Princeton undergraduate has entirely the correct attitude towards Harold Bloom. The average Princeton undergraduate thinks Harold Bloom is the protagonist of James Joyce's Ulysses. Come to think of it, the average Princeton undergraduate has entirely the correct attitude towards James Joyce's Ulysses, too." But Bloom gave series of lectures there in 1975 or 1976, and my cousin called me up to tell me that, yeah, Bloom was really interesting and he (my cousin) had been wrong.</p>
<p>One of the star TAs I had got his first job at Princeton -- David Bromwich. I don't think he started there until 1977, but maybe it was the fall of 1976. He was chair of the English Department at Yale at one point. Is he the guy you are talking about?</p>
<p>Anyway, if the most astonishing course you ever took was "Theory of Literary Criticism", you would have loved Yale. But if you had gone to Yale you would have known that structuralism was pretty much over by 1976.</p>
<p>mamenyu: Berkeley the best comp lit department in the 70s? No way! Want to take it to PMs and match names?</p>
<p>I've lost track of the logic of the debate in this thread, but I wanted to add one point. Someone (appstressin?) suggested that the prestige of a school can become more significant as one moves up the ladder, and I think others felt that this wasn't a valid claim. As I said, I've lost track of this thread, so maybe I misinterpreted that. But I think there are some areas where the prestige of a school CAN matter more as one progresses in a career. Some businesses -- even engineering -- care about the educational pedigree of their staff, especially if it's more consulting oriented. I'm aware of several companies where the level of national recognition determines whether someone gets the job, and that can include where the person obtained their degrees. </p>
<p>There's a reason why successful public U graduates choose to send their kids to elite/selective colleges. In fact, I read once that many professors choose to send their kids to elite liberal arts colleges. There must be a reason for that.</p>
As if oft the case on CC , this kite has no tail . I, too, have lost where it was that we were going. I think. Maybe. But it appears it is unfortunately morphing into the same old tired "value of an elite education" thread. So , if I choose to stay, I'll have to change sides soon and that will confuse the heck out of the newbies. ;)</p>
<p>Alu, since you and I are on the same side of the larger issue , you need to stay where the heck you are or the world will become even more unfocused for me and I will be well and truly lost.</p>
<p>edit: and crum is not that bad. Heck, it happens so often these days I've developed a bit of a callous.</p>
<p>sjmom: I'm not sure which public universities (and graduates) you mean, of those public university graduates who "prefer to send their kids to elite/selective colleges." UNC-CH, part and parcel of the OP's daughter's dilemma, is one of those public universities where alumni consistently and happily send their kids. (Once a tarheel, always a tarheel.) :) I suspect this is true for some other public universities as well. In fact, I have never heard that statement before, that "successful public U graduates choose to send their kids to elite selective colleges." Hmm . . . I'm curious--how do you know this to be true? (Of course, I think UNC-CH could be described that way as well -- "elite" and "selective," so maybe I misunderstood you . . . )</p>
<p>Perhaps I should not have generalized -- H and I are public U graduates who chose to send our son to a selective college. This was not what I would have guessed for us five years ago. When you look at the number of applications received by the Ivy's plus MIT, Stanford, Chicago etc. I can't believe all of those parents attended private colleges. The numbers tell otherwise.</p>
<p>Alumother: Uli Knoepflmacher...he's still there.
JHS: I'm getting into that argument...Robert Alter, et al. were no slouches; and (assuming you mean Yale) look what happened to Paul de Man's reputation. Bloom has taken to writing great books lists.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But it appears it is unfortunately morphing into the same old tired "value of an elite education" thread.
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Actually, that's how it started, right? And the value in question quickly jumped to networking possibilities. Then some ivy grads felt insulted that anyone would be so gauche as to taint their unsurpassed educational experience with the mere mention of $$$ or prestige as a goal or even serendipity.</p>
<p>LOL ohio-mom. Your point is a good one. When a kid has a specific interest, well-founded and committed, particularly it seems in the sciences, it is all about the department. </p>
<p>And I am practicing what I preach. Sent D, the broadband child (meaning it's all good to her), to Princeton. Am looking into schools that include UNC, UCSB, and University of Miami, along with some IVY-Stanford types, for similarly-statted son because he wants to do marine/tropical biology and he is a narrow-caster...</p>
<p>And in the end, D chose her school - turning down the Cal Regents. S will choose his school. But if my father hadn't in his infinite wisdom offered to fund my kids' college accounts? Might be an entirely different story. </p>
<p>I am sure other parents and kids have made the right decision for themselves
as we have tried to make the right decision for us.</p>
<p>Oh gosh. I see above that SS has started that snarky stuff. That's it for me guys:).</p>
<p>sjmom: I think that term, "selective," is fairly subjective. For out-of-state students, for example, UNC-CH (most especially) and UVA are highly selective. And both of those schools are pulling in more and more top student applicants in-state--every year--making them ever more "selective" for many of the in-state students as well. </p>
<p>I would have no idea how many public university graduate parents turn around and send their kids to Ivys. (Legacy status certainly counts for a lot at those schools, and I can believe legacies account for a somewhat significant part of their student bodies, don't you think?)</p>
<p>"Actually, dstark, I happen to have a good friend who is a Michigan grad and Berkeley grad student from that era, and one of the smartest people I know."</p>
<p>If you actually paid attention to what I have been writing, dstark, you would know that I don't even begin to claim that Ivy schools have a monopoly on brilliant people. I do think they have a greater concentration of them, and a more consistent culture of learning, than the best state unis, but it's all a question of degree. My current HS senior may well decide that a big state uni is what he wants, and it will be fine with me if he does.</p>
<p>I've been thinking about it. I know four Michigan grads with college-age kids now. One of them has a kid at Michigan (and never wanted him to go anywhere else). One's kid is at Harvard; another's kid is at Yale. All three kids love their colleges, by the way. The fourth's kid is applying this year (and the mom is a Berkeley grad), and has not applied to any state unis.</p>
There. We'll see if somebody will take the bait this time, ohio</em>mom. Since I know absolutely nothing about the specific topic, I'll have to decline. As to your more general point, I tend to agree. ;)</p>
<p>I absolutely agree. I am familiar with AMS rankings of math programs. They don't look exactly like your USNWR rankings( say, Dartmouth is ranked lower than University of Utah) .</p>
<p>dstark, the only reason I may not be happy if my son goes to Berkeley is that, as far as I can tell, it will probably cost me a few thousand dollars more a year than any other option. I like Berkeley a lot. Michigan, too. My wife has something of a problem with Michigan, but I disagree with her. My son didn't want to go anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line, so UVa and Carolina were off the table from the get-go, but I would have been happy with any of them, too.</p>