Prestige in the US vs Prestige around the world

College Search & Selection
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When did I every say I MYSELF remind other people where I go to school? Stop putting words in my mouth. Usually, if I'm at a party or a social gathering, a mutual friend ends up revealing this information to people I interact with. Yes, they are usually impressed. But does that mean that kid who goes to Western Michigan and doesn't receive the same "awe" that I do can't succeed and outperform Ivy grads in the real world? Absolutely not. Going to a good school starts you out on the right path and gives everyone you meet a good first impression. That's all I am trying to say. After that, it's all about YOU and how YOU perform in the workplace.</p>

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So, have you had bad experiences with elite school grads in the past?;) Your posts seem to reflect some kind of bias towards those individuals. MOST people would be more impressed by the Duke/NU/Penn than the ASU grad initially. It is what it is. Honestly, the kids who can get into Duke/NU/Penn in today's competitive college climate and shell out major bucks for an amazing education should get at least the initial moment in the spotlight. It's only fair right? That doesn't at all mean the ASU grad can't shine as well if he/she is able to convey qualities like intelligence, maturity, thoughtfulness, etc.</p>

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I'm a college-aged kid so naturally this piece of information comes up all the time right now. I really don't care either way. Sometimes that special attention is kind of embarassing. I know some of my Harvard friends blush a lot when that piece of information is revealed. I don't think anthing would happen though if people didn't know where me or my friends went to school. The kids I know who go to an elite school have a canny ability to carry across an intelligent conversation, more so than state school students. I think this is evident to most people either way.</p>

<p>Yeah, some elite school students are pedantic and boring. The vast majority are more intelligent, quirky, level-headed and ambitious than most kids who go to state schools. You just can't deny this.</p>

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<p>"Yeah, some elite school students are pedantic and boring. The vast majority are more intelligent, quirky, level-headed and ambitious than most kids who go to state schools. You just can't deny this."</p>

<p>But EAD, some public universities are elite. At such universities, the students are, by and large, identical to their peers at private elites. </p>

<p>Also, I am not sure how students at elite universities are more level headed than students at non-elite universities.</p>

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<p>" wonder what I should think my my bosses throughout my career. My first job was with Lehman Brothers in London. My boss (who recruited me on campus) was a fellow Michigan alum. However, most of my peers at Lehman (and later on at Goldman Sachs) did not attend elite universities. Many attended top universities but the majority attended schools that would be considered "second, or even third, tier" on this forum. </p>

<p>Since my investment banking days, none of my bosses attended what we would consider an elite university. At Ford, my boss was a Western Michigan alum and at Eaton, my boss was a Case Western alum, at my last couple of firms, my bosses attended the University of Manchester (in the UK) and the Ohio State University respectively.</p>

<p>At my current employer (one of the major US consulting firms with over 55,000 employees globaly), my boss is a UConn alum. Note than none of my bosses would be what I would consider the exception. Most of their peers attended similar institutions. Of my peers at the consulting firm I am currently working at, only 4 out of 40 attended top universities (one Chicago alum, one Georgetown alum one LSE alum and myself). The rest of my peers attended schools that would not inspire awe! The star of my department is an Eastern Illinois alum. The guy just knows how to get things done well and on time and he is an incredible team player and contributor. I am trying to model my behavior and attitude by watching how he operates. On a side note, the CEO of our firm is a St. Joseph University alum, and darn proud of it too.</p>

<p>Bottom line, if you attend a top university, or eat at an awesome restaurant or stay at an exclusive resort or drive a performance vehicle, be sure you do it for your own satisfaction and development. Anybody worth his (or her) salt will not judge you based on any of those."</p>

<p>Wonderful post!!!!Some people believe that only going to elite university will give you acess to top notch jobs...i remember looking at the list of billionaires and i did i little research and found out that most of them didn´t go to elite schools. I´m not from USA and it blows my mind to see so many people obsessed with prestige. I have some american friends going to top universities only because of their name..they think that´s what going to give them "the dream job".
Back on the topic, here in south america the most famous american universities are:
harvard
MIT
Stanford
Yale
Berkeley
UCLA
UM
columbia
princeton</p>

<p>as for european universities:
cambridge
oxford
LSE
sorbonne</p>

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<p>
[quote]
So, have you had bad experiences with elite school grads in the past? Your posts seem to reflect some kind of bias towards those individuals.

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</p>

<p>Oh good lord. I still keep up with my NU friends. I've got tons of friends and acquaintances from those kinds of schools. I have no bad experiences, but not everyone who goes to an elite school is the Greatest Person in the World. They're just ... people. Some are good, bad, indifferent.</p>

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[quote]
Honestly, the kids who can get into Duke/NU/Penn in today's competitive college climate and shell out major bucks for an amazing education should get at least the initial moment in the spotlight. It's only fair right?

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</p>

<p>Again, so competitive ... why a spotlight? Spotlight for what?
Look, the kids going to D/NU/Penn/whatever already have the leg up because they have a network they can leverage that's generally speaking better than the non-elite state flagships. Isn't that enough? Why do you also need to be in the spotlight? Don't you ever let your hard work, drive, enthusiasm, smarts speak for themselves, or do they always have to have a brand name attached to them?</p>

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I apologize. I was just referring to a typical state university, not places like Berkeley and Virginia. Obviously students at the top public schools share characteristics that one would find in top private school kids, although to a lesser extent.</p>

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No no, I think you misinterpreted what I said. I just mean that kids who go to top schools rightfully deserve a good first impression because of the quality education that they received. After that, I agree that the factors you mentioned ultimately end up mattering a lot more.</p>

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<p>I agree that top schools give you what I call "the stamp of smart." However, that stamp can easily be broken in a job interview situation just by evaluating the candidate on how they come across, how creative they are, how flexible they are, how easily they'll be able to take direction but also be self-directed when needed, how they'll work with others, etc. If those other characteristics aren't immediately apparent within 5 minutes of an interview starting, a 4.0 at Harvard doesn't matter.</p>

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<p>
[quote]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Pizzagirl:
No, that's YOU. YOU would be impressed by the Duke/NU/Penn grad and expect the ASU grad to prove herself. You know, really, not everyone at Duke/NU/Penn et al is the Perfect Person. Some are pedantic and some are boring and some are stupid, just like everywhere else.

[/quote]
Originally Posted by EAD:
So, have you had bad experiences with elite school grads in the past?;) Your posts seem to reflect some kind of bias towards those individuals.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>i thought Pizzagirl graduated from NU (correct me if i'm wrong). so EAD had no idea all this time.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, you are referring to things I lump into the category "street smart". the best candidates I hired were first, street smart, second, good character, and third, book smart.</p>

<p>And I agree with your perspective. It is possible for a book/school skill development focus throughout high school and college to actually inhibit a person developing street smarts/skills which will ultimately be far more important, than, for example, understanding the differences between Freud and Jung (or fill in any other technical knowledge).</p>

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<p>Everyone conversation with pizzagirl disintegrates into prestige doesn't matter, no it doesn't, yes it does and so on....Can we all just admit that attending an elite school gives you an immediate advantage in that it demonstrate you are intelligent. What you do from there is up to you and anyone from any school can make a great impression. Its just the immediate "smart brand" or whatever you want to call it goes to those people who are from elite schools. I just met a few kids at a party the other day, one girl went to Vanderbilt very pretty and cool, one guy want to Emory very chill and one guy went to Yale and he was exceptionally smart. If you were admitted to a school like Yale, people will think your smart on first impression and then its up to you to demonstrate it, but in many cases an initial impression is all you really get.</p>

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<p>A Harvard grad once said that, following graduation, his school "opened doors I didn't know existed."</p>

<p>A friend of mine who graduated from Yale once told me he couldn't remember how often he was told he got the interview just because he was a Yalie. Doesn't mean he got all those jobs -- but Yale sure opened the doors to the interview! </p>

<p>Finally, I went to a school considered the best public in the US. Decades ago. And it still comes up during MY interviews. </p>

<p>Yes, those "prestige" schools get noticed. But you still have to perform to get the job and to stay on the job. And just as likely, the person in the office/cubicle/lab space next to you went to a no-name school and is doing the same work you are, or is your boss.</p>

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<p>I agree katliamom. HYPSM have the wow factor. That's about it.</p>

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<p>I think what katliamom said sums everything up nicely. Any elite school gives graduates that instant "you must be smart" impression to an employer, but it doesn't mean the student who sat around in Harvard wasting his parent's money is going keep the job, let alone get it. A smart, hard working person is a smart, hard working person.</p>

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<p>^^Right and the elite schools I would wager have more of them and thus as a result are more successful as a whole. In the end a school is only as good as the students it has.</p>

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<p>bescraze,
I agree with you to an extent, but what you are missing is the employer is not hiring the school, they are hiring the individual. The school positions the student to have the opportunity (and this advantage declines over time) to interview and it may provide some networking opportunities within the target company, but the interviewer is focused on the individual and what she or he will bring to the company.</p>

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<p>I whole heartedly agree, all I was saying was that the top schools tend to have that "individual" a company will seek more than other schools, since those elite schools are so selective in who they admit. For all the rest I agree with you, in that the advantage will decline over time. I think your take on it is correct and more moderate and I believe more people need to recognize that. Since people like Pizzagirl and others seek to simply reject the premise that an elite education does confer an advantage and that the advantage does not neccessarily apply evenly across all top 25 schools.</p>

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[quote]
I whole heartedly agree, all I was saying was that the top schools tend to have that "individual" a company will seek more than other schools, since those elite schools are so selective in who they admit.

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<p>What about those "individuals" grades? Tendency to have those type of individuals doesn't mean that ALL those individuals at said schools will do well academically.</p>

<p>I understand where you might get that generalization from, however, given there are so many different factors to consider, its not as simple to say one school may have that many more individuals based on XYZ selectivity difference. There are so many top 25 schools I did not apply to, who knows which schools I could or could not have gotten into?** I believe undergraduate schools helps in summer internships and from abundance of internships you'd get expereience, and from experience it gets real jobs.**
To from yes, school to jobs is too great of a leap. Think of the many things right inbetween.</p>

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<p>I do think the elite univ. opens up doors that were inaccessible before. I have some friends who graduated from MIT, Stanford and they have told me that they had many job offers waiting for them before they graduated. The time i learned about this, i was awed.. because after you graduate here from a Canadian Univ., you generally have to search months for a decent job. It probably has a lot to do with.. 'wow, this guy went to Princeton..he must be well qualified.' As the saying goes... well i forget how the saying goes but first impression is the most important one. That is the extra edge elite univ. grads get.</p>

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You have to be more careful how you phrase things. What do you mean by "street smart"? Do you mean having good social and teamwork skills? Or are you talking about "common sense"? You can't come to the conclusion that "book smart" kids are less important than "street smart" kids or whatever. While the actual technical knowledge they possess may not be useful, "book smart" kids usually are hard working, have strong critical thinking skills and are very diligent at getting tasks. How is that more important than "street smart skills"? Social skills and common sense are traits that most individuals possess to an at least reasonable degree. I would argue that less people are very hard workers, have strong character, have independent drive, have good critical thinking skills, good written skills, etc. Ultimately, after all the socializing is done, you need someone who can actually do the work.</p>

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<p>EAD, according to a recent, market-standard study, an effective business leader relies far more on emotional intelligence (EQ or soft skills) and industry/technical knowlege than intellectual horsepower (IQ). EQ has no known ties to IQ.</p>