<p>Hello everyone,
I am wondering about the importance of attending a "prestigous" undergraduate school in getting into a great graduate school. I was accepted to a top 5 LAC, and two other top 25 LACs. Unfortunately, the Financial Aid packages at these schools make them simply unaffordable for my family. Therefore, I will most likely be attending a LAC ranked about 70. (And, believe me, I really don't care about ranking. I DO care, however, about what the grad schools care about). I will be triple majoring in Physics, Computer Science, and Math; I should be able to do so without any trouble, as I have a bunch of credits in those areas already (I almost have a minor in math). I plan on going to grad school in physics, and I REALLY empathetically want to go to MIT, Caltech, or the likes. Admission to these schools is not at all uncommon at some of the schools that I was accepted to, but it has not happened recently at the school that I will be attending. Will it be impossible for me to get into a good grad school from this college (good being defined above)?
Thanks!</p>
<p>you'll be fine if you do well.</p>
<p>I don't know. There were a lot of factors in why I didn't get into the grad school of my choice but I do think my school, which is good but not top tier, hurt me even though I have a stellar GPA.</p>
<p>"I plan on going to grad school in physics, and I REALLY empathetically want to go to MIT, Caltech, or the likes."</p>
<p>Clearly you're not going for English.</p>
<p>jpps1, what is that supposed to mean?
If you are refering to my use of the word empathetically, I know what the word means, but where I am from, it's considered acceptable to use it in the way that I did (I'm serious, it's actually a pretty common thing to hear/say). And, really, there is no reason for you to make a remark like that. Oh, wait, I suppose now you are going to chide me for starting a sentence with a conjunction? Now, if you care to actually help answering my question, that might be nice...</p>
<p>Wow, some people are really touchy.</p>
<p>But now I'm curious as to where you're from and how "empathetically" can be used in that context (I assumed that you meant "emphatically").</p>
<p>Not to offend, but it really doesn't make much sense. To whom are you being empathic towards in wanting to attend a top school? (I know it's rather pedantic, but I've always seen correcting english as an aid, don't want to be using words incorrectly in your SOP's for grad school!)</p>
<p>As for your original question, I could have attended Grinnell but I went to another LAC instead...and I've been admitted to the 2 of the top 5 schools in my field for my Ph.D. The school is far from everything, it is more important to establish key relationships with faculty, show evidence of strong motivation via internships, research projects, etc. Initiative and excellence in education far outweigh your undergrad school.</p>
<p>nblarson,
I will explain myself. I was really worked up about the issue in the post, and when I saw that there was a reply, I assumed, logically, that it was in response to the question posted in my original post. This was not the case. I found, instead, a snide remark insulting my English ability (which was mildly insulting). It would have been very different had jpps1 simply (and politely) said, "I think that you meant to say emphatically instead of empathetically: don't make mistakes like that in your essays." See the difference? I think that might have addressed why I was "touchy" as well (to jpps1). Jpps1, I am from Northern MN, where people really do say empathetically to mean, as you said, emphatically (atleast when they are speaking aloud). This is probobly because it is easier to pronounce.</p>
<p>Of course, and I understand, the internet seems to detach many from sentiments of propriety.</p>
<p>newUser,</p>
<p>Wrong is wrong, no matter if 5 people say it or 5 million people say it. Empathetically cannot be used in that context if we are talking about standard American English. Now, you may feel free to argue that dialectically or colloquially it's acceptable, but don't use a Bandwagon fallacy to back up your clear misuse of a word.</p>
<p>Oh, and get over it. Welcome to CC, where nobody is safe from the grammar Nazis. Not even you.</p>
<p>So does undergraduate name matter...The short answer is "Yes." The long answer is "Yes, it does." There is no doubt in my mind that having a LOR from a well-known professor in your field will always trump the very personal letter from the professor at Podunk U. Hell, as a graduate of a very well-known research university (UCLA), I don't doubt that I lose out to higher ranked peers when it comes to admissions into graduate programs and fellowships and the like.</p>
<p>Now, is this insurmountable and impossibly against you? Not really. But if you do a cursory glance at CVs of students at top programs in my field (IR/poli sci), you will find that most of the names start out with "Harvard" and "Yale" and "Princeton."</p>
<p>Oh well.</p>
<p>when i was touring grad schools it seemed to me that it did not matter what undergrad you attended as much as the quality of the department that relates to your proposed field of study ... better grad schools picked more of their students from schools with what are known as strong departments in the field they applied to - they didn't just round up everyone and anyone graduating harvard or princeton</p>
<p>kihyle,</p>
<p>Of course not. But let's be honest: Harvard and Princeton are good in a lot of things. </p>
<p>I still say that undergrad matters a fair amount for the PhD. Maybe not for professional schools as much, though.</p>
<p>UCLAri, my only real point was that he could have been nicer. You could have been nicer, too. "Oh, and get over it. Welcome to CC, where nobody is safe from the grammar Nazis. Not even you." I'm sorry, I don't like to be insulted. What is the "not even you" comment supposed to mean? Did I ever imply that I am better than anyone else. I don't think so. Apparently people think that, while using the internet, perfect grammar/word usage is essential, but being polite/nice is not? Or are you always like this? Out at UCLA they don't care if you are obnoxious or not (especially to people who are going to "inferior" colleges to UCLA)? Also, there isn't really a "bandwagon fallacy" in word usage in Enlgish, because if enough people use a word, it will become a perfectly correct part of the language.</p>
<p>Also UCLAri,
After those first two lines, I would like to thank you for taking the time to actually respond to my question.</p>
<p>UCLAri,
they are good at some things but there is no point going there if there are other schools with better departments in your field than a particular well-known school -- you'll end up getting far better education and circulating about the right people, alas forgoing having "harvard" on your resume to amaze those who count name worthier than what you, as a person, actually accomplished</p>
<p>and lets not forget that what you actually accomplish at a mediocre school can be more significant for committee members than "harvard" on your transcript -- though "harvard" and "princeton" may indicate that as a high schools student you were quite competitive compared to your peers (and financially able to pay up the tuition), grad schools question what exactly did you do those 3-5 years of your undergrad? and what kind of education were you able to get there?</p>
<p>newUser,</p>
<p>First of all, it was very very clearly a sarcastic joke. I don't really think jpps had "insulting" in mind. You really need to calm down. YOU were the one who set yourself up for a joke by using a word incorrectly.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Out at UCLA they don't care if you are obnoxious or not (especially to people who are going to "inferior" colleges to UCLA)?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm looking at left field, and hoo boy, did a real whopper come my way.</p>
<p>Huh?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, there isn't really a "bandwagon fallacy" in word usage in Enlgish, because if enough people use a word, it will become a perfectly correct part of the language.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's a fine line, if you ask me. With language usage, it's always better to err on the side of caution. Lots of people use "don't" in place of "doesn't," but I'm not about to start using that as an argument for my using it.</p>
<p>kihyle,</p>
<p>I'd really love to agree with you, but I honestly tend to find that in a wide variety of fields, if you look at CVs of grad students, they're usually from big name schools.</p>
<p>UCLAri is both right and wrong. There do tend to be the same schools with a larger piece of the graduate pie among the top grad schools. That varies from major to major and program to program, though. For example, if you look at Yale's grad students in physics, they're pretty inbred. 17 of their students graduated fromYale, and others are listed as being from UMich, Rutgers, Amherst, Maryland, Berkeley, Simon Fraser, Stanford, MIT, and U of Science and Tech (China). MIT doesn't have their grad students listed, but Caltech has more variety - USC, SUNY, UWash, MIT (3), Duke (2), Princeton (2), UNC, UCape Town, Reed, Caltech, UCSD, UWisc, Williams, UMinn, IIT-Madras, Berkeley (2), UKansas, USt. Thomas, Seoul, Drexel, UChicago, Moscow St. U, Bowdoin, UMich, UBC, Czech Tech, USTC. That's just the incoming for 2005.</p>
<p>The other point is that assuming a "lesser" (please don't jump on me, note the quotes) college has less of a chance because they are underrepresented is a bit fallacious. Perhaps people who plan to go on to grad school tend to shoot more for the big name schools. Perhaps people coming from "lesser" institutions don't apply to the big name schools because they are intimidated or don't receive the best counseling. We don't necessarily know the reason for the skew simply from looking at a list or CVs.</p>
<p>That having been said, larger institutions tend to have far more research opportunities, especially in the sciences. And as research is highly regarded during the application process, this may be a significant factor.</p>
<p>My advice would be: 1) attend the LAC but find lots of opportunities for research - summer, institutional, etc. 2) try to land a prestigious science award (those are always good for applications) 3) do stellar work at the LAC for a couple years and then try to transfer to a bigger name school for junior-senior year - often there are funds available for those who have proven their abilities at the college level. 4) a state school, even if it isn't a big name like UMich, again may have more contacts/opportunities that will help you in the grad application process. Transferring there may help as well. 5) finish your BS at the LAC and then go apply for MA programs at more prestigious universities. I would apply for a mix of reach schools (Caltech, MIT, etc.) good but not top 10 schools, and safety schools. Even a safety school will give you opportunities for research and to prove yourself at the grad level, as well as expanding your contacts that can help you. And if I'm not mistaken, there is a lot more funding for MAs in the sciences than in other areas. (Obviously, you can't do all of these - these are options!)</p>
<p>Basically, you have to be a bit more proactive if you choose a lower-tier school. That isn't a bad thing, though - adcoms know that opportunities come easy at the top schools, but garnering those opportunities at lower schools shows initiative, which they appreciate.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>What he said.</p>
<p>yeah, if you consider top 100 undergrad schools to be "big-name" schools then of course</p>
<p><what he="" said.=""></what></p>
<p>She...let's not assume all smart people are men... ;)</p>