<p>I am sure that this has come up before. But, rather than digging through old threads, I figured I would just start a new one quickly. So last week I got in the mail a letter from my MOC. I received a Primary Nomination to USAFA, then a regular nomination to the other two. I am under the impression that as long as you are qualified for everything with USAFA (Triple Qualified) then they MUST give you an Appointment if you have that Primary Nom. Is this accurate? I an PRETTY sure that I am qualified but not positive. As soon as break is over, I’m going to call my councilor and ask them, but I figured that I would check with all you here first 
Thanks for the help! :)</p>
<p>I assume you mean principal. Have you checked your online status to see if it changed? Some MOCs will contact the appointee before the SA, so you might hear from them before the AFA (it is only a few days difference). Since it would be a principal, you must be charged to the MOC and thus they will know quickly from the AFA. What do you feel that you might not be qual...if it is the CFA they will ask for you to retake it, otherwise all of the mins for acad. are on the web, so that is an easy read. And if it is Dodmerb than you should know whether you are waiting on a waiver. Good Luck and Congrats</p>
<p>Does a principal nomination appear on your online status page as "Status: Received" and below it the name of your nominating source?</p>
<p>Ah yes. Principal Nomination not Primary. :) Wrong "P" word. It isn't that I don't think I am qualified. I am pretty sure that I AM qualified but I am trying to be realistic about it. I already got a letter from Navy saying that I was Triple Q'ed for them. My status is "Candidate" for AF which means I am "competitive" but it doesn't specify "Qualified" or not. I am just curious if its true that if I am qualified and I have a Principal Nom, then they MUST take me? </p>
<p>Semper: No, it says "None" right now but I expect that is because it came over Christmas Break and they haven't processed it yet.</p>
<p>Yes with a principal they must give you the appt. Realistically, if you are triple q'd for the USNA, than you are for the AFA. I can't speak for sure, but I believe you do not go into the candidate until you are qualified by the AFA.</p>
<p>CONGRATS and wrap yourself in bubblewrap and don't get injures...AIM HIGH ABOVE ALL</p>
<p>Now change the moniker to 35...that's the real jet :p (jk...if you don't know why, it's b/c Bullet is in charge of the 35 requirements for the AF)</p>
<p>From what i've read about the F-22/35 is that the F-22 is so much better than the 35. Even though it's bigger, it has a smaller radar signature, plus it can break Mach 2 and has super cruise capabilities. Not to mention greater internal weapon storage capacity of 4 AAMs compared to the 2 of the 35. Also figuring the 22s 2-d thrust vectoring gives more manuverability.
IMO- The only reason that the F-22 has been downgraded by the media and the requested numbers keep going down is because of it's cost. I'm not saying the 35 isn't good, just from what I understand capability wise, the 22 is more superior.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does a principal nomination appear on your online status page as "Status: Received" and below it the name of your nominating source?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Any nomination will appear that way on the web site.</p>
<p>Oh, alright Luigi, makes sense... Thanks!</p>
<p>Ask Bullet how many are going to be unmanned...especially since the F/A-18 demonstrated hands-off A/R at KEDW...and we need more UAV's, etc...etc..</p>
<p>I can foresee a UCAV called the MQ-35... ;-)</p>
<p>Simple question: While the norm is that the "Principle" nomination is pretty much automatically given an appointment; assuming 100% qualifications; the question is: Because there are rules to how many cadets a MOC can have attending the academy at one time, is it possible that a candidate can be a principle nominee but that MOC has the max allowed cadets in and the candidate can't get in under the principle provision? Or, would the MOC know ahead of time and wouldn't have nominated anyone as a principle in the first place?</p>
<p>If the MOC has no open slots, the MOC does not have the opportunity to give any noms that year so this situation would not occur. The MOC is made aware of how many openings they have ahead of time so it doesn't happen.</p>
<p>flieger is right there will be alot of unmanned coming down...so if you are going in to fly a jet, you might be doing t from a desk. Just realized that brings the statement about flying desks to a whole new meaning...G*d Bullet and I are old, when he got in nobody would have ever thought that could be taken literally...:p It also gives another meaning to CHAIR FORCE</p>
<p>From what I know, the MOCs know how many slots around June/July b/c they are charged with them and given an acct. Many yrs ago I interviewed at the Pentagon for a position that is in charge of keeping the quota count for the AFA. In the summer this dept sends out letters to all of the MOCs officially telling them of the amt of vacancies they have. They actually have a wall that is color coded for ea cadet/dig and placed under the MOCs name. If an MOC calls at any time they can look up and tell them the cadets name and what dig they are. The vacany is also color coded. It is actually pretty neat.</p>
<p>As you can see there is too much check (MOC), double check (Pentagon) and triple check (AFA) for there to ever have an MOC give out noms when they do not have a vacancy. In addition, it is rare for the MOC not to have a vacancy...just add into the fact that approx. 25% of cadets do not grad. if 50 drop per yr, there will be MOCs with a new vacancy opening up. No MOC wants to say to their constituents, I am sorry I can't nominate anybody b/c I filled up all of my vacancies...kind of makes the voters a little ticked when it is their kid that needed the nom from a very comp. state.</p>
<p>
[quote]
From what i've read about the F-22/35 is that the F-22 is so much better than the 35. Even though it's bigger, it has a smaller radar signature, plus it can break Mach 2 and has super cruise capabilities. Not to mention greater internal weapon storage capacity of 4 AAMs compared to the 2 of the 35. Also figuring the 22s 2-d thrust vectoring gives more manuverability.
IMO- The only reason that the F-22 has been downgraded by the media and the requested numbers keep going down is because of it's cost. I'm not saying the 35 isn't good, just from what I understand capability wise, the 22 is more superior.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well of course $122 million per jet vs $85 million (depending on the variant) makes a big difference. Keep in mind we plan on replacing the F-15C/D models with the raptor, and we'll be lucky to hit 200 F-22s in the next 25 years! We are expected to get something like 2,400 F-35s, for cheaper per aircraft, to replace the F-16/F/A-18/GR7/EA-7B/A-10.</p>
<p>It is not as good as the F-22 at air-to-air, but its purpose is ground attack at which is does VERY well since it can carry more missiles and bombs than an F-22 with its hard-points. </p>
<p>It's also far better than our inventory now based on these requirements: four times more effective than legacy fighters in air-to-air combat, eight times more effective in air-to-ground battle combat, and three times more effective in reconnaissance and suppression of air defenses.</p>
<p>:) It's a very good aircraft for its mission, the F-22 is great for its mission.</p>
<p>The 35 is also being sold to all of the branches and to our friends around the world, that is why you hear more about them.</p>
<p>Bullet had the chance when he retired to work on the 22 or the 35. He chose the 35 b/c of the fear that they will never make it to the numbers they are predicting. A lot harder to cut the 35 program if every branch is buying, than if just the AF. In the end they might cut the numbers due to budget reasons. Look at the Stealth, it had a very short life, but when it came on line every pilot was vieing for it. The original community was known to have vote on who got in (they actually used black and white balls in the vote).</p>
<p>Planes in the military are never a given thing...The A-10 was suppose to be boneyarded in 90 right after the gulf. 20 squadrons still have them almost 2 decades later. The B-52 is older than the hills, but it is still around. The F-4 lasted longer than the F-111. The Stealth was a blip on the fighter screen.</p>
<p>My guess is if the DOD has to cut budget numbers, they will make the min and spend the difference of the money to keep some more 15s around for a longer time...however, maybe they won't since it is a lawn dart! Very difficult to say to the Navy sorry we want the 22 more than the 35 and since we have less money, we're cutting the 35. Hard to say that to our allies also. Easy to say to the AF...sorry you are the only one with this jet and so we are going to cut it!</p>
<p>NOW BACK ON TOPIC</p>
<p>Although the MOC is told by the SA how many slots they have available every year, the MOC has access to that information everyday and most are well aware of it. They are planning how they are managing that fifth slot very carefully. The MOC has web access to each SA and on that web access it tells them exactly who is a cadet/mid from their district and who is charged to them for each year. Even those that are not charged to them (but are from their district) are listed as uncharged (these would be presidential or LOAs). In my dealings with this process I can assure you that the staffer does not have to wait to be told how many openings they have for a given year. If someone leaves the SA the SA notifies the MOC and the staffer typically prepares to brief the MOC on the status of the SA openings. If there is more than one opening in a given year (from the fifth slot or someone left) the staffer will do an analysis of how / when to best use that slot (based on several factors). The bottom line, however, is that the MOC knows if they don't have slots available (or at least they should know) and cannot submit a slate if there are no slots. Sometimes a MOC may come into office new and the prior MOC filled the slots so that no open slots are available ... this is a difficult situation but has occurred more often then you'd think. When a MOC submits more than one slate (more openings than one) the SA completes an analysis to make certain the MOC understands if there is a future year where they will have no openings and notifies the MOC giving them the option to alter it - if they already notified the candidates they typically will not make a change but take the hit in a future year. The SA does not want that to occur - and typically the MOC doesn't either. It is not difficult to track the slots to confirm there is an open slot every year but an inexperienced staffer may make a mistake and by not fully understanding they could box it up. I have seen MOC offices where they were blocked for a particular SA for two years in a row. </p>
<p>Bottom line - the MOCs know how many slots they have and manage them carefully. If the MOC has no openings in a given year, they cannot submit a slate. In order for a MOC to get a candidate to that SA during that year the candidate will have to get an LOA and nom from another source.</p>
<p>Very interesting info MOM. I am assuming you are with an MOC.</p>
<p>I am not sure due to budget cuts/re-alignment if the office that I interviewed at the Pentagon still exists. I know the job title was AFA Liasion(there was also someone for USNA, USMMA, USMA, ea had only 1 branch),that position was to keep track of every cadet, plebe, mid, etc and where their appt was charged. The true position of the job was to brief the MOC staff on the regulations for nominations and keeping track of the charges. This office is located on the same floor that ea SA has an office, makes it easy to get info back and forth. I am still going to take the leap that the office exists since in the end of the day the DOD does have a bone in this dog party.</p>
<p>I recall that they stated the busiest time was in July b4 the MOCs leave for summer vacation and after the cadets arrive, to send out paperwork verifying the person that they were charged with, the # of vacancies they have for the upcoming yr and when the mass brief for noms would occur...flat out told...you will be here 15 hr days to get all of them through, and you will go up to the hill to do the mass briefings in Sept. Then the 2nd time that was expected to be 15 hr days was the end of Jan to make sure all nom lists were in, and get on the MOC to send over the list.</p>
<p>I learned alot from Mom and I hope you all realize that there is alot that goes behind the scenes in the MOC/SA world re your appt.</p>