<p>But even if you're a wealthy black person, there's always a stigma attacthed to your race that makes you disadvantaged.</p>
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^Because universities need to fill certain quotas so that minority activist groups can shut up.
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<p>They need to? somehow I don't see aa/hispanic minority activist groups bullying harvard into doing something they don't want to do. If private uni's wanted to change things they could.</p>
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Who says these URMs are unqualified? A 3 hr test? Most URMs that get into elite colleges are just as qualified in categories such as gpa, class rank, essays, and ecs. The only thing that lags behind is their SAT score.
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OK. The research + article substantiate the fact that URMs DO lag behind in class rank, gpa etc. not only SATs. And they did get chosen over Asians + Caucasians because of their colour. Of course there are other factors, but YOU CANNOT SAY that ALL URMs have lower numbers and better ECs than Whites/Asians and therefore they deserved the spot. Numbers don't lie</p>
<p>where are you getting this from???? who keeps telling you people that admissions comitees are not aware of the economic situation of every applicant???. right there on the application they ask you what your parents do. they also see where you live. of course that is taken into account. stop saying that it isnt because that is simply false and a way for people who dont get into college to complain. minorities with high incomes are barely given any advantage and I know because I am personal friends with many rich blacks and i have been in contact with many from CC so I can see the patterns. you guys really think the admissions commitees are stupid or dont have any morals or backbone but i really disagree with what you are saying</p>
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Most URMs that get into elite colleges are just as qualified in categories such as gpa, class rank, essays, and ecs. The only thing that lags behind is their SAT score. A three letter acronym shouldn't judge how "qualified" you are.
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<p>SO WHAT? I'm more than qualified in all those areas too, and I have a low(ish) SAT score. Why should we make excuses for their SAT scores? If it's gonna get me rejected, I don't see why anyone else shouldn't be held to the same standards. Saying that they are qualified in all those other areas makes the SAT scores even LESS excusable.</p>
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They need to? somehow I don't see aa/hispanic minority activist groups bullying harvard into doing something they don't want to do.
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<p>Then you haven't been watching the news very closely. Activist groups are definitely forcing the hands of some universities that wouldn't do this otherwise. Even Harvard recently got a lot of flak from some black grads who were mad about immigrants being admitted AA.</p>
<p>you really think that whites and asians never get in with 1300's and 1200's??? it happens though many of you refuse to see it. oh please wipe your eyes and move on because there are other ways to prove that you are qualified other than the SAT, and minorities are definently not the only ones who are given a chance.</p>
<p>^^ I never said that. But they don't deserve any MORE of a chance. Besides, it's been proven (in that study, even) that minorities get a LOT more room to f up their SAT.</p>
<p>i really wish non URM's can feel what i felt in high school. teachers automatically assuming you are stupid, guidance counselor putting me in regular classes once she saw me because I didnt look like "honors or ap" material, my classmates making constant jokes about token blacks, me being the only minority in all my top classes, black kids in the school who are failing make fun of me doing so much work, ohhh what a life. there are days when i have no drive and no will to go on to such an awful enviroment. go through that every day and lets see how much harder school is for you and the drama that you must face that everyone else is not subject to. if that doesnt call for an advantage in admission then i dont know what will.</p>
<p>Aw, you got made fun of? That NEVER happens to white kids! Maybe it's not because of race, but if you're flat-chested, short, have a lisp, dress funny, aren't good at sports, don't have a lot of money, drive a crappy car...you get judged. No matter what race you are. And if you don't think teachers judge a white kid's ability to learn based on style of dress, reputation, way of speaking, etc, then you need a reality check.</p>
<p>By the way. I'm half-Latina. And if you don't think I know what it feels like to be judged based on race, you should come out here to California and see how Latinas and Latinos are percieved. But I'm no idiot and I don't think AA's going to do **** to fix that.</p>
<p>I suppose that I'm a bit selfish when it comes to AA. I'm Mexican, and because AA is going to help ME, I have no problem with it. </p>
<p>When it comes to others, however, AA does make me angry. It irritates me a lot that wealthy blacks or hispanics are given an advantage over poor white's or asians. I mean, my family is poor - setting quotas for shower time, no cable, coupon-hoarding poor. But I think it's more difficult being impoverished than it is being a minority. I've never encountered a lot of racism or discrimination just because I'm Mexican-American. I HAVE known how difficult it is to be poor, however. I know that admissions officers see the family income on the applications. It just makes me angry when a wealthy hispanic is admitted to an elite university, when a poor asian or white person with identical stats and similar essays is rejected.</p>
<p>I think AA based on minority status works to a certain extent, because there ARE many intelligent blacks or hispanics who just don't get high SAT scores. But in the long run, I believe that AA based on financial status would be more benificial.</p>
<p>I think people need to freaking buy the book Illiberal Education and read it. It's required reading for my Theory of Knowledge class, but it's my favorite book from all I've read so far. It pretty much points out that AA creates bitterness between those not included in the AA plan and those included in it, aggravating the tension between races. Not the intended plan, eh?</p>
<p>Also, let's take my friend Eifei for example. We're a school with more Asians than usual (~30% Asians?). He's one of the maybe 15 African American at our school (only ~4 in our grade). He's just as economically "advantaged" as the rest of the top-tier students (meaning top 10%); in fact, I know many more Asian-American students economically worse than him. Eifei is very smart, very active and get good grades/scores. We're placing bets whether Eifei will even get rejected by any school. On the other hand, the Asian students (and the 2 white students) who have higher grades, better scores, and even some with incredibly unique activities are shooting through fire hoops and whips to find some way to get accepted. We love Eifei and all, but sometimes, it's just frustrating.</p>
<p>Bleh. Not Asian-American's fault that our culture generally pushes us to focus on education (and I've seen too many times where it's either comply with the pushing parents or be disowned). It's like blaming African-American culture for being so creative.</p>
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I never said that. But they don't deserve any MORE of a chance. Besides, it's been proven (in that study, even) that minorities get a LOT more room to f up their SAT.
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SO WHAT? I'm more than qualified in all those areas too, and I have a low(ish) SAT score. Why should we make excuses for their SAT scores? If it's gonna get me rejected, I don't see why anyone else shouldn't be held to the same standards. Saying that they are qualified in all those other areas makes the SAT scores even LESS excusable.
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By the way. I'm half-Latina. And if you don't think I know what it feels like to be judged based on race, you should come out here to California and see how Latinas and Latinos are percieved. But I'm no idiot and I don't think AA's going to do **** to fix that.
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<p>But I am also willing to bet money that you will check the URM box stating hispanic and show your latina roots if it gives you a boost and helps you to get admitted to the ivy which you are looking to get into (despite what you quote as your low scores).</p>
<p>The full text article also states:</p>
<p>This study examines how preferences for different types of applicants for admission to elite universities influence the number and composition of admitted students. Methods. Previous research with these NSCE data employed logistic regression analysis to link information on the admission decision for 124,374 applications to applicants SAT scores, race, athletic ability, and legacy status, among other variables.</p>
<p>The article also states:</p>
<p>The Opportunity Cost of Preferences</p>
<p>The admission process at academically selective colleges and universities inevitably entails opportunity costs (Bowen and Levin, 2003; Shulman and Bowen, 2001). A decision to admit one student involves a choice not to admit someone else. When preferences enter into the mix, applicants who are denied admission often feel that they would have been next in line to be accepted had preferences not played a part (Kane, 2003).</p>
<p>I'm just as much against althete recruitment and legacy status as I am against AA. All 3 should be eliminated. Applicants should be judged solely on what they bring to the academic table.</p>
<p>lets not start the rants. Lets atleast wait until December 15th, when rejections are mailed for ED. How about a nice rant on legacies, or college meal plans, or even the cost of textbooks, or how about overworked underpayed and crowded counselors.</p>
<p>IMO, athletic recruitment is not so bad. Legacy status, I completely disagree with though, same as AA.</p>
<p>Syrieria, actually legacy makes more sense than any other form of AA. With Legacies, college tend to "insure" more donations from Alumni</p>
<p>¬_¬ Bleh. It's good for their money status.</p>
<p>i heard that some colleges get funded by organizations depending on the percentage the minorities make up.</p>
<p>learning about AA in american gov. now...</p>