<p>Bahahaha. That's funny nopoisonivy. :D</p>
<p>BookFreak: "Basher" is such a strong word, isn't it? I'd consider myself as "Truthsayer", who's not afraid of revealing the bad side of Princeton. A steward who likes to guide admitted students to make well-informed decison of their owns, whose notions are often clouded by "fanboys" and "fanatics" in this forum.</p>
<p>Well, I can only offer anecdotal evidence, but I feel that Princeton is aboslutely NOT any "preppier" than any other college.</p>
<p>I was hosted at Princeton in November, a time when the school isn't in the usual convince-the-cross-admits Spring Hosting mode. My parents are low-income non-college-educated Chinese immigrants, and yet every person I met in my two full days at Princeton was down-to-earth and extraordinarily amiable. I felt at home immediately, and have turned down literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in financial aid from other colleges to come to Princeton. I would not do so if I felt uncomfortable in the least at Princeton.</p>
<p>Lord: With all due respects, two full days is not a quite suffient time to fully appreciate the " beauty" of Princeton. Don't you thnik?</p>
<p>however you care to regard yourself, wet, the truth is that 41 of your 64 posts have been made to this forum, including all of your last 23. almost all of those posts have been scathingly negative and highly inaccurate. i would therefore strongly disagree with any characterization of your efforts here as "truthsaying" or "stewardship" of any kind. especially since you seem to have no actual connection to or experience with princeton, unlike the several students and young alumni who share their thoughts here. granted, the latter group's posts should be read with some reservation about their potential positive bias, but yours should be taken for what they apparently are: strenuous but baseless bashings of one of harvard's peer schools made in the desperate hope of dissuading info-seeking common admits from attending.</p>
<p>For me (and many, it seems) it does not take long to feel the "vibe" that determines whether a school environment is a good fit. But if I need to search to find preppiness, then I would not consider Princeton particularly "preppy."</p>
<p>(By the way, I don't automatically consider anyone wearing a polo shirt to be "preppy." I could care less what people wear. :))</p>
<p>Lord: Good for you! That's a spirit. Good Luck! I wish nothing but the best for you next four years. I am certain that you will succeed.</p>
<p>By the way Lord, "The Ivy Graden" on Nassau Street is the best chinese restaurant in town. Dont miss it ! =)</p>
<p>I'll be sure to check it out. (But southern California Chinese food is hard to beat!) Thanks anyway! :)</p>
<p>I just got back from a full day at Princeton as a parent of a kid doing the April hosting program. It was my second visit, but first with students around. I spent most of the day walking the campus, stopping students and asking about their perceptions, likes and dislikes. The weather was perfect, trees were in blossom and the campus was lovely. My anecdotal impression was that there was more ethnic/racial diversity than I expected. Most of the kids I talked to said they were happy but worked hard. A couple characterized the Princeton student body as the most conservative of the Ivies and the faculty as being very liberal. I didn't have a sense of much political engagement. I didn't see any anti-war posters or t-shirts. I saw at least three right to life presences on campus, including a table in the main student center and hundreds of little flags on the lawn with the sign saying something like "Welcome Class of 2010, these flags represent the 347 others who would have been here with you if they hadn't been aborted." What struck me wasn't that the pro-life group was so visible but rather that there wasn't a pro-choice faction right in their faces. </p>
<p>Driving home I tried to figure out what it was about Princeton that bothered me. What I came up with (and I know this is a gross generalization) is a feeling that the students and the environment lacked edge. It felt as if Princeton U was a training ground for the people who are going to inhabit Princeton the suburb. They are smart but they're not out there pushing the limits. They want to succeed but they don't want to rock the boat. They are risk-averse and want to network for the future. As much as I tried to be fair-minded, I couldn't help but be bothered by three or four croquet games on the green with the students dressed up in whites and pastels with a few smoking cigars. Where were the frisbees and kids wearing rock and roll t-shirts?</p>
<p>Princeton may turn out to be my son's choice and if so I hope it is a great fit. I just wish I had a better feeling about it.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Princeton pro-life is a very active group looking to get publicity from some showy events during pre-frosh weekend. At least this morning, there were two pro-choice posters directly behind the pro-life display, one discussing back alley abortions that would take place were abortion illegal, and one talking about the right to choose. They may have been taken down, since pro-lifers claimed they booked the green.</p></li>
<li><p>The croquet games are a joke. The only time they happen is during freshman week and April hosting. People do not play regularly, only as an ironic nod to the preppy image on days on which the public is coming.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks for the clarifications icargirl. What are your reactions to my lack of edge argument? Also a misperception based on a few hours exposure?</p>
<p>Re edge, look at <a href="http://www.nassauweekly.com%5B/url%5D">www.nassauweekly.com</a> and <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/%7Equipfire/%5B/url%5D">http://www.princeton.edu/~quipfire/</a>. Also search on "senior thesis" on the Princeton website and you will see students pushing the limits, doing interdepartmental work that breaks boundaries, etc. </p>
<p>Right now the seniors at Princeton have nearly all just turned in their theses. The juniors are doing or have finished their second junior paper. At this time of year they are more exhausted than edgy and are enjoying the sunshine and flowers. If your son is interested in a very challenging school where he will not become a "talking head" but will be among intellectual peers who want to develop as whole people, he will find opportunities without limits at Princeton to struggle in class, travel all over the world on university grants, compete to participate in international and national social service projects, get funding for summer internships, etc. For all the incredible opportunities at Princeton, students on campus seem to be constantly filling out applications to do one fascinating thing after another.</p>
<p>They do the croquet and pink shirts on purpose. It's a joke. They do it to make fun of the stereotype.</p>
<p>princeton students can be "politically engaged" when they want. in fact, they can be as engaged as any in the country. see, e.g. princeton filibuster named 2005 college "protest of the year":</p>
<p>SAN FRANCISCO, Aug. 29 (AScribe Newswire) -- Mother Jones magazine today released its 12th annual roundup of college campus activism, naming the group filibuster mounted by Princeton students in response to the GOP's nuclear option threat the Protest of the Year; Nate Wright, co-founder of Students Taking Action Now: Darfur (STAND), Student Activist of the Year; and the "Boot the Bell" campaign, on behalf of Florida tomato pickers, the Victory of the Year. </p>
<p>Protest of the Year: Initiated when eight students in cheap suits gathered in front of Princeton's Frist Campus Center to give dramatic readings of the campus phone book, the protest against Princeton alum Bill Frist's threat to go nuclear in the battle over judicial appointments quickly picked up steam and spread to 50 campuses in 35 states, from UCLA to Bates College. The 348-hour Princeton gabfest ended with a "fili-bus-tour" to Washington, D.C., where guest bloviators Senators Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Jon Corzine (D-N.J.) joined in. </p>
<p>for more on the abortion war currently being waged on frist's front lawn (note especially the picture):</p>
<p>One of the things that struck me during my two and a half day visit was the curiosity, passion, and brilliance of the students I was surrounded by. Even a casual conversation between a group of friends would often turn into an insightful and impassioned discussion of politics, on-campus issues, or a theory learned in class. As freshman, the students I met were already working closely with incredible professors, and their inspiration and excitement was almost electric. </p>
<p>And as for kids hanging out playing Frisbee ... they were all over the place. I hate Frisbee, but you can't seem to step onto a campus these days without stumbling over a group of Frisbee-tossing kids. My brother has also been to more rock concerts than I can count in the one and a half years he's been at Princeton - how important is it that he wears a polo shirt to class?</p>
<p>Here's an example of a student whose senior thesis brought her into doing her own research and working with amazing faculty as well as contacts beyond campus: <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/55/59O16/index.xml?section=featured%5B/url%5D">http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/55/59O16/index.xml?section=featured</a></p>
<p>
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Where were the frisbees and kids wearing rock and roll t-shirts?
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<p>It sounds like you are building a case for your child to like Brown.
Princeton can be preppy (is that so bad?)
Princeton can be a bit conservative.
Princeton can have a strong evangelical culture (read the Prince around Easter)</p>
<p>Princeton can sometimes have a Brown like feel as well.</p>
<p>BTW...It will be years before the kids will be able to live in the town of Princeton or the surrounding area. The taxes are astronomical!</p>
<p>Well, let me admit to something. I think Princeton in terms of what you might term the social aesthetic is more conservative than places like Brown. However, it is not in the least intellectually conservative. </p>
<p>On my last visit there what I noticed was how many attractive kids there are on campus, and yes, how they looked a little more clean cut than I am used to in teenagers. I think that is the Other Side of Paradise impact - and I think no matter what everyone else says that Harvard probably is more swimming with the sharks and Brown more edgy and Columbia more whatever and Dartmouth more conservative and frat -like - ON AVERAGE - than the other schools. Stereotypes have some backing. Like it or not each institution has a culture. </p>
<p>The intellectual culture at Princeton is edgy as hell. It is like drinking 150 proof alcohol. The dominant and visible social culture is preppy-looking.</p>
<p>However, I each university also supports its alternative culture. Harvard has easy-going kids, Dartmouth some flaming liberals, Princeton artists and politicos and social activists. They just don't have such a visible dress code:). And kids who do not fit the dominant visible stereotype can still find a wonderful college experience.</p>
<p>As I have said, I showed up in 1974, very few women at that time, I had a bandanna on my head and patches on my jeans. First time I had ever seen whales on a belt or pink pants on a man.</p>
<p>And I found Princeton to be the most truly creative and edgy environment I have experienced then or since - including my years in Manhattan, a year in London, a year at a dot.com, and now my stints in China.</p>
<p>Ephesus: I don't know that I would call most Princeton students "edgy" either. However, it seems to me that someone can only be "pushing limits" if he defies the norms of his society or, in this case, institution, which would mean that the "edgy" element in any college is necessarily a minority.</p>
<p>Politically, while I think the majority of students are liberal, there is a definite conservative flavor in comparison to most other Ivies. However, I've found that to be a valuable learning experience - while not radical, I am decidedly left of center, and appreciate that, for the first time, I am around people with well-though out and well-articulated conservative beliefs. It actually makes me re-evaluate and reaffirm where I stand on issues. While I have not been politically involved personally, there is a fairly active politicala life if you want to find it. The Princeton Tory and Princeton Progressive Nation are the main conservative and liberal publicatinons, there is a foreign policy magazine, College Republicans and Democrats, pro-life and pro-choice groups, students for a sensible drug policy, and a few others. </p>
<p>Intellectually, I think there is also a mix. Without stereotyping too much, there is definately a large group that is career oriented in a way that turns me off a bit. However, I think most people, even the more pragmatic ones, are passionate about something. Not everyone wants to be an i-banker. I also don't think students are afraid to criticize established wisdom - I've had a lot of precepts in which people criticized canonical texts pretty sharply. It is rarer to have students in open disagreement with a professor, but I think that is partially because, at least in the classes I'm taking, the professor is the one providing a context for a work, shaping how students recieve it.</p>