Princeton is what?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>i have heard that princeton is only for rich people who treat those that are poor as untouchables? how much of this statement is true? This can affect my choices for a school this coming fall. Please answer.</p>

2

<p>The statement you have made is completely incorrect, but at this point if you haven't started your Princeton application, it will be difficult to complete it by the deadline.</p>

<p>Here are a few facts. For the class of 2011, 54% received financial aid, with an average financial aid package of approximately $31,000. Princeton has a no-loan policy, so you won't have to spend your working career paying off an enormous loan balance. In terms of diversity, the class of 2011 was 8% African-American, 15% Asian, 8% Hispanic and 11% International. 57% of the class of 2011 attended public high schools.</p>

<p>Princeton is an extremely diverse university, and there are no problems between well-to-do students and students on financial aid. The university has spent many years trying to reach out to all kinds of students and is pouring money into many different programs to attract all kinds of students, including building 4-year residential colleges, an arts neighborhood and new science initiatives. It is truly a wonderful school, with a great president and administration, exciting academic options and caring professors. I hope that this helps dispel some of your concerns, which are truly unfounded.</p>

3

<p>Just don't apply then. The rest of us really love Princeton (and know that's not true) and don't need people applying who don't love the school...</p>

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<p>I have heard manzi's statement applied more often and more vehemently to Princeton than to any other university, including Harvard and Yale. There has to be a reason why it has this reputation of being a mecca for the white, snobby, prepp ultra-rich.</p>

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<p>Having 'Prince' in the name probably doesn't help...</p>

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<p>ceebee63, manzi can apply wherever he/she wants to. I am sick of hearing many people say, "Oh, if you don't love the school, don't apply and give others a chance!" Are you in love with all the schools you're applying to? Or are you just applying to Princeton? I bet you have some matches and safties. Do you love those equally too? The "If you don't love the school" crap is just an insecure and selfish response to the competition inherent in the admissions process.</p>

<p>manzi just wants to know more about the school. He/she certainly has a right to question about the school's atmosphere because it's a part of manzi's future too.</p>

7

<p>Ok, to answer the question. No, it isn't true at all. Sure, HYP and most every good school used to be pretty much for the children of the rich and powerful along with a couple of brilliant scholarship kids but the truth in those stereotypes died out ages ago. Look at the numbers, Princeton, and for that matter, any of the ivies, are nothing like the institutions that popular culture and misguided stereotypes often make them out to be.</p>

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<p>And to think I thought the OP was a troll, looking for a response with a prompt something like "I've heard that you beat your mother and I really need to know how often that happens"...</p>

9

<p>I think midatlmom did a great job showing the inconsistency between stereotype and reality. When the majority of students receive financial aid and come from public schools, and when minority representation is stronger than that of the nation at large, I'd say Princeton loses any claims to being a bastion of exclusivity.</p>

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<p>This reputation stems, unfortunately, from an era where such criticisms did hold water. If you look at Princeton in the 1950's, for example, you wouldn't be too far off with your description of a University as "a mecca for the white, snobby, prepp ultra-rich." Things weren't too different, by the way, at places like Yale or Harvard, but even by such standards, Princeton was something of a country club.</p>

<p>Then came the 1960's, and with it, a wave of progressive changes. Affirmative action began as did female enrollment and a very different view of what an elite university should be. It was between 1960 and 1990 that a lot of the stereotypes of Princeton that come to mind broke down. Not necessarily all at once, and it wasn't a smooth one way ride, but remarkably quickly for an institution that had not changed very much for the majority of its over 200 year history. This is a slight oversimplification of the timeline, and if you want to learn more, you should pick up Jerome Karabel's book, "The Chosen".</p>

<p>Of course, reputations don't change overnight, and when high school seniors try to split hairs between similarly good universities, old stereotypes become easy things to cling to. It's for that reason that it's always better to take the harder route and dig for reality. As midatlmom pointed out, that reality scarcely matches stereotype. In fact, I'd argue that Princeton today matches or exceeds its peer universities in nearly all measures of diversity. Here's a tidbit from a post by PtonGrad2000, citations and all:</p>

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<p>Look, Princeton's a diverse, exciting, progressive environment, and frankly a great place to be for ANYONE willing to work hard and make the most of the opportunities you get here. All the data point to it. If you're still in doubt, come and take a campus tour. Just make an informed decision, not one based on stereotypes that have broken down.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Just don't apply then. The rest of us really love Princeton (and know that's not true) and don't need people applying who don't love the school...

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<p>That's a bit harsh, I think. A lot of people, current students like myself included, didn't really know what Princeton was like and were uncomfortable with the stereotype before we did some research. Now that we've seen the stereotypes fall apart, we can help spare others of that same discomfort.</p>

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<p>Yes, but I've researched all my schools, visited, had all my questions answered, talked to students, etc. I'm not deciding on December 27th what schools to apply to, and I'm certainly NOT applying to any schools I wouldn't want to attend.</p>

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<p>Amb3r, congratulations on your acceptance to Yale. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/5125783-post7.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/5125783-post7.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I understand from your post above that you may also apply to Harvard. These are both terrific schools and you should be justifiably proud of your acceptance to the former. Your interest in reaching for the latter is laudable as well. Good form! </p>

<p>What is not good form on these boards, however, is to disparage schools to which you have not applied and to which you do not intend to apply. First-hand experience should be your guide.</p>

<p>These old and terribly outdated stereotypes of Princeton are always tossed about by detractors at this time of year and in the spring prior to matriculation decisions. Let’s stick to the positive, the verifiable and to what we know from first-hand experience.</p>

<p>The original poster is new to these boards. Such negative threads from new posters are always suspect but especially so at this time of year. They seem to appear in profusion (especially on the Princeton and Harvard boards) just before the cutoff for applications and for matriculation decisions.</p>

<p>I’ll give “manzi” the benefit of the doubt and assume that his/her question is serious. If that is the case, then I think that these negative and outdated stereotypes have already been dealt with by the above posters. I would give you just a couple more sets of statistics. In case you believe that Princeton has a higher percentage of wealthy students than its peers, you may be interested to know the following: </p>

<p>Class of 2010 % of Students on Financial Aid
(the most recent figures available from U.S. News & World Report)</p>

<p>55%--Princeton
53%--Harvard
49%--Columbia
47%--Dartmouth
46%--Stanford
43%--Yale
42%--Brown (tie)
42%--Cornell (tie)
40%--Penn</p>

<p>TOTAL Percentage of Undergraduates From All Classes on Financial Aid During 2005-2006 (the most recent figures available from U.S. News & World Report)</p>

<p>52%--Dartmouth (tie)
52%--Princeton (tie)
49%--Harvard
48%--Columbia
45%--Stanford
43%--Penn
44%--Brown
43%--Yale
42%--Cornell</p>

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<p>
[quote]
What is not good form on these boards, however, is to disparage schools to which you have not applied and to which you do not intend to apply.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not disparaging Princeton. Neither is manzi; neither is anybody on this thread. Notice how all of us are beginning our posts with "I have heard... " not "I believe that ..." I am questioning the persistance of a stereotype and wondering about how much truth, if any, lies beneath it. What better place than the Princeton boards to air my doubts? There is no better way to dispel harmful stereotypes than to discuss them. Yes, I am sure questions like these appear during the college applications process every year, as new crops of prospective students try to learn more about universities before applying. What is wrong with that? Anyway, thank you for your response, and also for Silly Puddy's. They are very informative and give us a better perspective of what Pton's atmosphere is really like. I am not surprised to find out that the unfortunate stereotypes of Princeton are outdated, yet unfortunately, they still persist today. Many of my friends, undergrads and HS seniors alike, make these jokes about Princeton, and while they are jokes, you know what they say - it's not a joke unless there's a modicum of truth behind it. Now, I don't believe that Princeton is full of snobby white kids anymore, but I can see how this image might have been true a few decades ago.</p>

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<p>Like others have said, the stereotypes might have been true forty years ago, but on the whole they do not apply today. I would like to add that these stereotypes are just as applicable to Harvard and Yale as they are to Princeton. Sure we have Ivy Club, but what about Porcellian at Harvard and Skull and Bones at Yale? At any elite institution, you are bound to find exclusive organizations which some may find distasteful. manzi, my advice to you is to go ahead and apply, and if you are accepted, visit during April Hosting. Princeton will be trying to put on its best face, but you will have plenty of time to ask individual students any questions you might have. Feel free to PM at any point during the application process.</p>

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<p>Just close your eyes and it will go away...</p>

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<p>And, one might add, Ivy Club is much less elitist than both Porcellian and Skull and Bones...</p>

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<p>Uh, what? </p>

<p>When I visited Princeton I learned they have a superior (equal to or better than Harvard's) financial aid program. Obviously, one of us is wrong and it's not me.</p>

17

<p>Piccolojunior, your statement about financial aid would certainly have been correct prior to Harvard’s recently announced changes. I believe it would be fair to say that with the changes just enacted by Harvard, that school has caught up with Princeton and even slightly exceeded it for the wealthier families applying for aid. Princeton would need to make only a slight adjustment at the upper end of its sliding scale to match Harvard’s new program and I anticipate that they will make this change. Princeton has a significant advantage in financial aid because nearly 100% of its aid program is already supported by endowed funds so that current income doesn’t need to be used for that aid. About 70% of Harvard’s aid budget is supported by endowed funds and (I believe) slightly under half of Yale’s.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your post, amb3r. I’m pleased to see you express your open-mindedness. The jokes that you’ve heard are not dissimilar from those I and most other Princeton students heard before we applied. You might see my comments to that effect here:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/432489-all-things-i-learned-princeton-these-most-important.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/432489-all-things-i-learned-princeton-these-most-important.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I’m sorry if I sounded a little firm. It’s odd that these mean-spirited characterizations are so common and yet so wrong about Princeton. Knowing a little about the history of Princeton, Harvard and Yale, I can assure you that those characterizations did have some, as you put it “modicum” of truth to them fifty years ago and earlier. Each of these institutions was overwhelmingly populated by graduates of prep schools who hailed mostly from the northeast’s wealthy families. Princeton has not been that way for decades yet the legends persist. In fact, among the Ivies, Princeton is less favored by the graduates of the older blue-blooded eastern prep schools than is either Harvard or Yale. Schools such as Exeter and Andover post their students’ college choices online so this information is easy to find. While I can’t seem to locate the numbers for the Class of 2011, here are some reported percentages of public versus private high school graduates at Princeton and Yale.</p>

<p>Class of 2010 Public versus Private High Schools</p>

<p>Princeton-----61% from public schools and 39% from private schools
Yale ----------54.4% from public schools and 45.6% from private schools</p>

<p>(Princeton</a> University - Princeton offers admission to 10.2 percent of applicants)
(Yale</a> Daily News - Diverse class of 2010 arrives in Elm City)</p>

<p>You suggest that there “must be a reason” that Princeton has this reputation. I would suggest that those reasons have little to nothing to do with the facts but a great deal to do with myths and legends perpetuated at least in part by advocates for Princeton’s peers. It’s sad that this should be so. Interestingly, as I said in my own remembrances of my first visit to Princeton, I found very few Princeton students denigrating other schools during my visit. While some had reasonable ideas for improving their own institution, even they were overwhelmingly happy with their experiences and few were concerned with competitive comparisons with their peers. (They were more concerned about time-management or about their senior theses which are required of every Princeton student!) I should add that this was less true at some of the other schools I visited where I was repeatedly fed the negative stories about Princeton. Except as expressed in the predictable and generally good-spirited jibes that occurred during athletic events with other Ivy League schools, I found no competitive anxiousness on the part of Princeton students about their school’s reputation relative to other top schools.</p>

<p>Again, congratulations on your wonderful admissions news to date and good luck with any other applications you are submitting. Tell your high school friends that, like you, they should be more open-minded and check facts rather than just repeating stereotypes.</p>

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<p>amb3r, I hear that Yale is full of gay and lesbian elitist liberals. I am not disparaging Yale as you will notice that I prefaced my comment by "I hear," but please provide proof that I am wrong. Thank you.</p>

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<p>Middlebury Dad, we can certainly see the point you’re making about stereotypes but this isn’t really necessary. Stereotypes are frequently pernicious. Let’s just avoid them. Yale is a great university and no more deserves to be the victim of stereotyping than does Princeton.</p>