Princeton, MIT Applicants Ignore Call to Ease Admissions Stress

Parents Forum
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<p>This relates to the Wise Musing thread, but deserves its own space:</p>

<p>Full article available at <a href="http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=az65.71Kz80o&refer=news_index%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=az65.71Kz80o&refer=news_index&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Excerpts:

[quote]
Dec. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Marilee Jones, dean of admissions at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, tours U.S. high schools delivering what she hopes will be a wakeup call. The pressure on students to get into top colleges is ruining their health, she says. It's time to lighten up. </p>

<p>``We are raising the most anxious, sleep-deprived, judged and tested, poorly nourished generation steeped in stress in the universe,'' Jones told parents at Manhattan's Columbia Grammar and Preparatory School in November.

A chorus of parents, admissions officers and high school guidance counselors welcomes the counsel. They also say they are skeptical about whether the advice can be followed when it takes ever-higher scores and grades to get in. Cambridge-based MIT rejected 84 percent of its 10,455 applicants last year.

``This sounds great, but if I do it, will my son be at a disadvantage?'' a parent asked Mark Speyer, director of College Counseling at Columbia Grammar and Prep, after hearing Jones speak last month at the $27,000-a-year school on Manhattan's Upper West Side, where 80 of 92 seniors were awaiting word on early acceptance.

When we try to preach any instruction to lighten up, we find we usually just aren't trusted,'' says Bruce Poch, 49, dean of admissions and vice president at Pomona College in Claremont, California.They are convinced it's a trap.''

No one wants to be the sacrificial lamb or the first to blink,'' says Pope, 39, the author ofDoing School: How We Are Creating a Generation of Stressed Out, Materialistic, and Miseducated Students'' (Yale University Press, 2001).

Admissions deans such as Jennifer Delahunty Britz of Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio, say colleges can play a part in ratcheting down stress.

``We have dorms full of stressed-out kids who have mortgaged their adolescence to get in, and they aren't resilient,'' says Pope, a founder of the SOS-Stressed Out Students Project, which counsels schools on alleviating pressures.

Running on Empty

**There are people who arrive at college out of gas,'' says William Fitzsimmons, dean of admissions at Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts.It's crazy for students to think in lockstep they must take four or five or six advanced-placement courses because colleges demand it.''

Fitzsimmons and his staff dub some applicants ``summer school warriors'' because they spend every vacation enrolled in academic programs.

``It's not clear they've ever been exposed to fresh air,'' he says.**

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<p>
[quote]
Running on Empty</p>

<p><code>There are people who arrive at college out of gas,'' says William Fitzsimmons, dean of admissions at Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts.</code>It's crazy for students to think in lockstep they must take four or five or six advanced-placement courses because colleges demand it.''</p>

<p>Fitzsimmons and his staff dub some applicants ``summer school warriors'' because they spend every vacation enrolled in academic programs.

``It's not clear they've ever been exposed to fresh air,'' he says.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL! Summer school warrior describes my S to a T. And he would not have had it any other way. What's the good of fresh air when you can do problem sets, play mafia and practice Monty Python skits? </p>

<p>S, in his first year in college, is thinking of ways he can spend next summer indoors again. :)</p>

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<p>When I placed the emphasis on the Harvard quotation, I almost added a reference to Marite S. :)</p>

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<p>"There are people who arrive at college out of gas,'' says William Fitzsimmons, dean of admissions at Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts."</p>

<p>Yup. A full 50% of them end up in the bottom half of their class! (and that's not counting the dropouts!) ;)</p>

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<p>These vocal deans mystify me. Let's say Student A with all As in regular courses who spends his after-school hours lounging on the beach applies to Harvard. Student B who has all As in 7 AP courses, plays the French horn with the local symphony, captains his high school baseball team, is student body president, and does research in his spare time also applies. Which will Harvard accept? Does MIT pursue recreational skiers with good grades, or does it pursue Siemens and IMO winners with good grades? </p>

<p>My guess is that the amorphous "building a class" culture in admissions puts far more pressure on students than the "you're admitted if you have these scores" culture. The latter is definite. The former isn't. Students may want to attend a particular college, but have no idea what the admissions criteria actually are, so push ever harder to stand out from the crowd.</p>

<p>I may be all wet, but I think, perhaps unconciously, the admissions deans themselves have not only created the problem, but continue to be the driving force behind the frenzy of activity for high school students.</p>

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<p>love of fresh air? MIT? Come on... the buildings are connected for a reason. Nobody there likes fresh air. And don't forget that the students sleep all day and work all night, so they don't place a high priority on sunlight either. ;)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Does MIT pursue recreational skiers with good grades, or does it pursue Siemens and IMO winners with good grades?

[/quote]
Just as a humorous aside, the boyfriend (MIT '07) of "molliebatmit" (MIT '06, who frequently posts on CC) had as his main EC in HS that he's a freestyle skier.</p>

<p>(From a post molliebatmit made in the MIT forum, noting the HS ECs of the students sitting in her dorm lounge at the time, as evidence that "normal, non-award-winner students" do in fact get accepted at MIT: )


</p>

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<p>I disagree with the earlier post. I think that the fault is not with the admissions officers. The consumer culture has put such an emphasis on admissions to certain colleges that application numbers have skyrocketed. In order to get a class of 1000 out of 20000 applications, the admissions officers have to choose, so naturally they choose the best test scores, best EC's, etc. The excessive pressure is put on students by themselves (maybe not as individuals, but as a whole). They feel an amazing pressure to get the highest test scores, EC's, etc to compete, and like the article says, no one wants to be the first to blink.</p>

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<p>Well, "alls I know" as they say in the town I live in, is that my S, accepted to a not quite MIT school, but similar acceptance levels, had none of that "summer program, never seen daylight, kind of outlook." Just a nice guy. I think Mollie is right. My S blinked, without a thought.</p>

<p>If kids like that stuff, the whole summer program rigamorole, and do it for their own sake. well, great. Just don't assume it means that you'll get accepted to a school because of it. </p>

<p>Personally, once you've jumped the "can they handle it" hurdle, I think that what they're looking for, is "is this the kind of kid we'd like to see walking around here for the next four years?".</p>

<p>Parse it how you want, but that's what the admissions weirdnesses seem to lead to. </p>

<p>As I've said, my kids didn't have the best test scores, grades, EC's or anything else. They just never felt that they were supposed to. </p>

<p>So for adcoms to say that they don't need to be perfect, rings true in our home. We blinked, and the kids are alright.</p>

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<p>

This applies to most college kids I know! I swear that my son has turned into a vampire -- wakes at 1:00 or 2:00, grazes for an hour, showers, and is ready to go into action about 10:00 pm! I hate to see our electricity bill next month, with all that midnight oil being burned.</p>

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<p>hahahah Harvard dean saying that!!!! hahahhaha!!!! there is no way I could ever lower my intensity, I wouldn't get into all those schools</p>

<p>this is all great in theory, but once again, NO ONE WILL DO IT! You can't stop the trend, it's called competition</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, elite admissions folk don't believe a word of what they are throwing out for public consumption. Even where they do, the system is bigger than they are. They are as much victims of the system as are the applicants. All the players are ensnared in an ungodly trap.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Yup. A full 50% of them end up in the bottom half of their class! (and that's not counting the dropouts!)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>mini, you really must stop making these wild claims without the data to back them up!!!! (Where are my smilies when i need them? )</p>

<p>I find this comment hilarious:

[quote]
It's not clear they've ever been exposed to fresh air,'' he says.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So who is admitting these suffocating students? And what is that speech going to sound like the first day of school? Is the Dean of Admissions going to tell the entering class how special, accomplished and wonderful they are, or is he going to tell them they really need to get a life?</p>

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<p>Hmm...Harvard still does run one of those money making academic summer programs don't they?????</p>

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<p>When MIT dean says "generation of most anxious, sleep deprived, judged.... in the universe", she is referring to very small percentage of kids in the US. . These deans are so trapped into their bubble that they believe all kids in this nation are autoflagelleting themselves with 7 AP's and 7 EC's just to get into their school. These ridiculously overachieving Harvard/ MIT prospies don't represent a 'generation'. They just represent Harvard/ MIT class of..... In fact more that 75% of college-bound high school graduates each year go to state-school or a communty college.</p>

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<p>Ellen,</p>

<p>I agree with you! I think it's laughable that the college deans throw their hands up in despair while continuing to encourage admissions hysteria. Those preaching "lighten up" messages also require applicants to show that they've taken certain classes, attained certain test scores, and received national attention for their noble extracurricular pursuits. Any change needs to start with THEM.</p>