<p>Hi, my son got accepted to both. He is undecided about his major.
Visiting is a problem since we are in another continent :). We read a lot about the two schools. I am asking for you experiences/thoughts.
Does anyone you know, or you, gave up Princeton for Brown?
Thank you for any info!</p>
<p>Hmm. Nope, not that I know of. I’m guessing that your son is an international student? If he is, Princeton showers its international students with money just as it does with its US citizens. There’s no discrimination in the availability of funds. I know this because I’m an international student myself.</p>
<p>If you are just living abroad, I can just tell you that the deciding factor for my was Princeton’s incredible list of study abroad opportunities. They have programs to literally take you anywhere, and so much more money than Brown University for all of its students to be part of these programs.</p>
<p>I know for a fact Brown University has limited funds for international students, and I imagine, given this fact, that they also can’t guarantee to a student that he’ll have the same opportunities as a millionaire going to the same school. </p>
<p>This just an opinion and my own personal experience. I hope it helps. And a huge congratulations to your son for being accepted to such great schools!</p>
<p>PS: Princeton’s pictures do the actual campus no justice. It’s way more beautiful than any picture of it.</p>
<p>Thanks StephensM. Yes, he is international. The only worry I have about Princeton are the deflated grading system (I hope I spelled it right). Is it as bad as everyone on the internet describe? ie students are angry, it takes the joy of learning and later on creates problems getting into graduate schools… it is hard for me to believe it’s true, but I read a lot of comments about it. One of the most important things for me is that my son will enjoy the learning and will be able to explore his diverse passions. Please share if you are a Princeton student. Thanks!!</p>
<p>They are both great universities, although some people (not me) describe Brown as a “fake Ivy”, just saying. :)</p>
<p>All kidding aside, I wouldn’t worry about the exaggerated grade deflating issue. True, my D is unhappy initially that she doesn’t get all A’s like she used to in HS but she has adjusted, knowing that she’s now in a group of bright, intelligent scholars like herself. And you can’t have everyone in the class getting A’s. </p>
<p>For grad school, I’m not sure a Brown student with a GPA of 4.0 is definitely having an edge of a Princeton student with 3.8. I know because I worked in Wall St. and I interviewed and hired many undergrad students. </p>
<p>Don’t let that be a factor of your decision.</p>
<p>Thanks aparentoftwo. This really helps. Is D happy in Princeton? academically and socially? does the system allow and encourage academic exploration? (the amazing Cambridge university in the UK does not, for example. They really want the student to know what you want to study and stick to it).</p>
<p>yoruyo, if your son is undecided and is extremely keen on thorough academic exploration, Brown might slightly overshadow Princeton in that. You can create your own majors (with certain general requirements though) there, and students can take some non-major classes that are graded on a Pass/Fail basis rather than on a letter grading basis. At Princeton, you must, on the most part, declare your concentration (term used instead of major at Princeton, which really implicates the highly focused nature) by the end of your sophomore year and take a certain curriculum there such as the Freshman Writing program in freshman year and, for A.B. (non-engineering) candidates, you must write a senior thesis according to your concentration (which means you really have to declare your concentration wisely). Princeton has a certificate program which encourages academic exploration, but you are not allowed to take them on a Pass/Fail basis, except in rare cases where you’re handling a heavy course load (like 5 or 6 classes).</p>
<p>If your son is leaning to the math, engineering, physics, chemistry, CS, and political science, I would strongly recommend Princeton over Brown: John Nash, Albert Einstein, the fact that it has an engineering school and Brown doesn’t, and Woody Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.</p>
<p>However, if your son is leaning to be a pre-med, I would avoid Princeton (grade deflation there, which isn’t good if you’re looking to apply for medical school) and go for Brown (which has a strong pre-med program, RE: Brown PLME). </p>
<p>Similarly, if your son is into art, I would strongly recommend Brown. You can take courses at RISD alongside those at Brown, one of the top art colleges in the nation. </p>
<p>For English and the humanities, I would say it doesn’t really matter and ultimately depends on your son’s fit factors (e.g. social setting).</p>
<ul>
<li>You can take courses at RISD, one of the top art colleges in the nation, alongside those at Brown. - A more accurate way of putting things. Lulz, grammar.</li>
</ul>
<p>@OREngineering: My understanding is Brown PLME requires a separate application. So in the case of yoruyo’s son who is already accepted, does he need to re-apply? </p>
<p>@yoruyo: My D is a freshman, and she’s very happy there. Academically she feels challenged but in a good way. Yes she’s disappointed at first she doesn’t get all A’s every quiz and test, but as I said she has adjusted to it. Socially she makes lot of friends both in and out of her residence hall. It also helped because she’s on the Varsity crew so she has a tight group of friends to practice and study together.</p>
<p>OREngineering: thats great info. “leaning” is the point. He is good at science but also at humanities. Likes to be challenged and has a strong analytical skills. More than anything he leans towards interdisciplinary subjects that combine both. He likes physics, chemistry, computers but also finds political science very interesting…one of those (doesnt like medicine or engineering).
aparentoftwo: thanks for sharing and good luck for D.</p>
<p>One factor that no one seems to have mentioned is that Princeton is known to be the most conservative of the Ivies and Brown has a reputation for being the most liberal. (just one more thing to think about)</p>
<p>Yoruyo, I will attempt to provide some information on the subjects you said that your son is interested in studying.</p>
<p>Princeton has been teaching physics since 1832 when Joseph Henry joined the faculty. For over 100 years Princeton undergraduates have been taught by some of the best physicists in the world. Some of the past famous faculty members include:
Nobel Prize winner Wolfgang Pauli for the quantum mechanics Pauli Exclusion Principle
Father of modern rocketry: Robert Hutchings Goddard
Nobel Prize winner William Shockley was the co-inventor of the transistor
David Joseph Bohm significant contributions to quantum mechanics and relatively theory
Karl T. Compton *12, helped develop radar and the atomic bomb, President of MIT
Edward Condon wrote the first English language book on Quantum Mechanics
Nobel Prize winner James Watson Cronin proved that certain subatomic reactions do not adhere to fundamental symmetry principles
Nobel Prize winner Clinton Joseph Davisson *1911 for electron diffraction
Robert H. Dicke '36 National Medal of Science winner
Nobel Prize winner David Jonathan Gross discovered asymptotic freedom
James Hillier developed the first practical electron microscope
Nobel Prize winner Robert Hofstadter *38 for his studies of the atomic nucleus
James Hopwood Jeans researched quantum theory and stellar evolution
Michio Kaku is an expert on string theory
Astrophysicist Bohdan Paczynski developed a technique using gravitational microlensing to allow observation of distant objects
Nobel Prize winner Owen Willans Richardson for thermal electron emission such as a vacuum tube
MacArthur Fellow Nathan “Nati” Seiberg helped to develop string theory
Nobel Prize winner J. J. Thomson discovered the electron
Wolf Prize winner John Archibald Wheeler was instrumental in the Manhattan Project
Nobel Prize winner Eugene Wigner for the discovery and application of fundamental symmetry principles
Nobel Prize winner Frank Wilczek *75 for research into the “strong force”
MacArthur Fellow Edward Witten *76 is one of the leading proponents of string theory </p>
<p>Princeton has just completed a new state of the art Chemistry building.
[Princeton</a> University - New Chemistry Building reflects its environment](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/70/64C28/]Princeton”>New Chemistry Building reflects its environment) Feb 1010</p>
<p>[Princeton</a> University - Elements of new Frick lab join to create ‘best infrastructure’ for chemistry](<a href=“Elements of new Frick lab join to create 'best infrastructure' for chemistry”>Elements of new Frick lab join to create 'best infrastructure' for chemistry) Sept 2010</p>
<p>[Princeton</a> University - Sculpture in chemistry lab bonds science and art](<a href=“Sculpture in chemistry lab bonds science and art”>Sculpture in chemistry lab bonds science and art) Sept 2010 Art </p>
<p>[Princeton</a> Alumni Weekly: New Frick Chemistry Lab opens, filled with light](<a href=“http://paw.princeton.edu/issues/2010/10/13/pages/3875/index.xml]Princeton”>New Frick Chemistry Lab opens, filled with light | Princeton Alumni Weekly) photos of the new building Oct 2010 environment </p>
<p>[Princeton</a> University - State-of-the-art Frick Chemistry Lab, now open, advances new frontier of research](<a href=“State-of-the-art Frick Chemistry Lab, now open, advances new frontier of research”>State-of-the-art Frick Chemistry Lab, now open, advances new frontier of research) Jan 13, 2011 good for scientific advances.</p>
<p>Princeton has a long history in the development of computers.</p>
<p>Before WWII Princeton conducted original research with Alan Turing *38 and John von Neumann to conceive of and build one of the world’s first computers: [Princeton</a> Alumni Weekly: Daybreak of the Digital Age](<a href=“http://paw.princeton.edu/issues/2012/04/04/pages/5444/index.xml]Princeton”>Daybreak of the Digital Age | Princeton Alumni Weekly) </p>
<p>Video on the history of computer science at Princeton: [Princeton</a> University - Alan Turing at Princeton University](<a href=“Alan Turing at Princeton University”>Alan Turing at Princeton University) </p>
<p>The Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs is one of the best undergraduate programs in public policy in the world. See: [Woodrow</a> Wilson School of Public and International Affairs | Home](<a href=“http://wws.princeton.edu/]Woodrow”>http://wws.princeton.edu/) </p>
<p>Princeton encourages students to explore new courses. Most students decide to concentrate in a subject other than the major they indicated when they applied to Princeton. Grade deflation has equalized the grades in the sciences and humanities. Prior to grade deflation the grading was easier in the humanities. The university reports that students have similar acceptance rates in graduate school today as they did prior to grade deflation. Graduate schools know that Princeton graduates are well prepared for graduate school.</p>
<p>You should be proud that your son is in position to choose between two fine universities.</p>
<p>Wow, PtonAlumnus, this is incredible. Thank you so much! We will read and watch every part of it.</p>
<p>My daughter attended a summer program at Brown and didn’t even apply to their for college, and instead is attending Princeton, which she loves. She did not know what her major would be when she applied, and has found she can satisfy her varied interests with her concentration (major) and 2 certificate programs (the Princeton equivalent of ‘minors’). She thought Brown had more of a ‘I smoke dope and am proud that I don’t study much’ atmosphere, which was not for her. Surveys have been taken about Ivy League students’ and professors’ political orientations and Princeton is not statistically more conservative than most of the Ivies, although Brown tends to be more liberal.</p>
<p>Princeton was the right place for my daughter, and she’s thriving there. To give you an idea of how much (most) students love Princeton, their alumni giving averages 61% of all graduates vs 40% at Brown. But the most important consideration is the right environment for your son, and only he can make that decision. If it had been up to me, my daughter would have attended Stanford, but she chose Princeton and it was the right college for her.</p>
<p>Sorry about the typos! Meant to type: My daughter attended a summer program at Brown and didn’t even apply there for college, and instead is attending Princeton, which she loves.</p>
<p>She has never once complained about grade deflation, being overworked, or the Pass/Fail options (which are available unless the class is in your concentration or certificate classes). Regardless of their availability, I’m sure that grad or professional school admissions directors would not look kindly on too many courses taken Pass/Fail… The Creative Writing courses at Princeton (taught by such esteemed faculty as Pulitzer Prize winners Jeffrey Eugenides, Tracy K Smith and Paul Muldoon) are only offered Pass/Fail, so there are ungraded options available at Princeton as well.</p>
<p>“She thought Brown had more of a ‘I smoke dope and am proud that I don’t study much’ atmosphere, which was not for her.”</p>
<p>I will step in to say that, as a Brown student, whatever experience your daughter may have had during a summer experience is not indicative of the experience during the academic year. I wouldn’t even say that 20% of the student body is around during the summer.</p>
<p>That being said, both schools are amazing, and you are lucky to have the chance to decide between the two!</p>
<p>thanks Momsters and Iapras. Its true that both schools are amazing. It is a challenging job for me as a parent. On one hand I want him to make his own decision without influencing him (and want to think that he knows better what will be good for him), but on the other hand he is only 17. no matter how bright our kids are, they are still young with a narrow perpective on many things. I guess this is an issue for another forum…</p>
<p>I might be a bit biased, as I am currently on the Princeton wait list, but I did spend a summer at Brown two years ago. Though I can’t share much about Brown’s curriculum beyond those posted on its website, I can however, share a bit about life in Providence. </p>
<p>The greatest merit, or attraction, of Brown is it’s liberal and free flowing philosophy that flows through not just its curriculum, but also it’s student body. I wouldn’t exactly say that Brown student has a ‘I smoke dope and am proud that I don’t study much’ approach, because there are a lot of very hard working students there, i.e. my residential advisor (RA). However, there does seem to be a trend in Brown where students are much more laid back and relaxed, which I don’t dispute. In terms of education, Brown shares professors with nearby Rhode Island University, and must of them are fantastic and respected professors in their respective fields. Princeton, of course, is known as one of the most undergraduate focused colleges out there, but Brown is right up there as well. </p>
<p>However, if I must say, Providence does present more of a lure than Princeton. Once enrolled into Brown, all students are given a Brown ID. With that, they can take all public transports in Providence free of charge. This means that if your son ever gets bored, he can hop on a ten-minute bus down to the mall, Providence Place, which has a cinema, plenty of restaurants and shops. However, most of the things your son will need can be found immediately on Thayer Street: restaurants, shops, CVS. Providence does have a bit of an edge over Princeton in this regards, at the end of the day, Providence is still the capital of Rhode Island.</p>
<p>I enjoyed my stay at Brown, but I don’t think it’s for me to be frank. I wanted a bit more discipline in my studies, so I never considered applying to Brown. </p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son, it’s a real fortunate position to be in.</p>
<p>My daughter liked Brown but felt that Providence was too limited for her. She takes the train to NYC twice a month, which is easy since there is a train station right on campus. Her classes have included (at no cost to students) trips to the Metropolitan Opera, the Symphony, the Ballet, the Cloisters and Met Museums, etc., which she has really enjoyed. On the other hand, students who want a more relaxed academic environment will probably prefer Brown. Princeton is perhaps more appropriate for Type A personalities. Both have beautiful campuses, and that walk up the hill to Brown will definitely keep you in shape!</p>
<p>DUNKIN DONUTS DOE (no pun intended)</p>
<p>lols jk - OP, you should schedule visits for your son to these two schools. It seems to really be all up to social/personal fit at this point.</p>
<p>My son also faced this choice. He’s the liberal creative sort, we were all set to make a second visit to Brown to help him choose, and then he just said, no, he wanted to go to Princeton. He felt the academics would be just that one notch above, and he wanted to feel certain that he’d taken the most rigorous path.</p>
<p>BTW, he loved Princeton. Every bit of it.</p>