<p>after visiting both schools, i am really torn. i loved yale although i did not like timothy dwight res. college, and i think ezra stiles is somewhat off campus. people also say morse is bad. also worried about crime. princeton on the other hand seems good. but i hated the dorms. also, classes are supposed to be very hard and they have grade deflation. i do not like the idea of eating clubs. princeton is buidling new dorms. yale in pirnceton, new jersey is the perfect school. i don't know what to do.</p>
<p>It sounds like you prefer the expereince of yale and are only hesitating because of the location (you want a Yale in Princeton, NJ) so you should probably go to Yale. New Haven honestly isn't that bad. the actual campus is pretty safe, and you seem like youd enjoy your time at yale more than at princeton?</p>
<p>Also you mention the grade deflation and difficult classes at Princeton as possible deterrents. I don't believe the classes at Yale are a cinch. Either school will be a challenging experience. If I were you, I would choose Princeton.</p>
<p>mel, it's hard for me to imagine how you could "hate" the dorms at princeton if you stayed in holder or witherspoon this weekend. those are some of the best freshman dorms in the <em>country</em>, let alone at princeton. they have the best of both worlds: the hardwood floors and mullioned windows of authentic collegiate gothic buildings, but all the modern amenities brought by really recent renovations. i suppose it's possible you stayed in an unusually small suite, but still, i don't understand what you were expecting or using as a basis for comparison. i also don't really understand your trepidation about princeton classwork. it's princeton, after all; it's <em>going</em> to be challenging. same thing for yale, where you would have to take several more courses than at princeton in order to graduate. grade deflation i can understand as a more legitimate concern, but please do know that the policy is still one of "targets" not limits. in any event, it has only brought the average GPA down from maybe a 3.5 to a 3.4, a level still vastly inflated from that "enjoyed" by previous generations of princetonians. in short, i think you'll be fine at princeton, should you decide to enroll. being biased, i think that you should, but i know that the decision is yours alone, and i trust that you'll make the "right" one (you'll love either place). good luck to you.</p>
<p>i made a mistake; i stayed in brown.</p>
<p>ahh, in that case...</p>
<p>Mel--I can't speak to the question of small dorms. It seems from your experience at Yale and Princeton that there are small and/or bad dorms at both schools, but there are also great dorms at both schools. </p>
<p>In connection with grades and classes, I am certain that the classes at Yale are as difficult (but also equally as interesting) as the ones at Princeton. In addition, at Yale you have to take 36 credits a year, which would mean that you have to take more courses than at Princeton. I don't necessarily consider this a negative, but it is a difference between the two schools and it might mean that the overall workload at Princeton would be more manageable.</p>
<p>As for safety, only you can answer that one. Princeton is located in a nice suburb and almost everyone feels extremely safe there. Yale is in a somewhat run-down city, although the area around the school is very nice. Once again, this is a difference between the two schools and the location of Yale is something that will not change.</p>
<p>Both schools offer wonderful undergraduate experiences. As a Princeton alumna, I can tell you that I believe that Princeton will provide you with a terrific education and that your fellow students will be interesting, fun and often exciting. I believe that it is a great time to be attending Princeton--the administration is upbeat and proactive, there is a new emphasis on the arts (with a $101 million gift just pledged for a new arts center) and the campus is increasing in diversity.</p>
<p>Good luck in making your decision!</p>
<p>not to be picky, but at Yale it is 36 credits to graduate, not per year (which is about 4 to 5 classes a semester, depending on their weight, with the average class = 1 credit, though some are 1.5)</p>
<p>I have seen bad dorms at both schools, and yet both campuses are beautiful in their particular way. Decide whether you want urban or suburban, and then look carefully at the course catalogue to see what's offered in your area of interest. Both schools are very, very strong in the humanities but I believe it's fair to say Princeton is stronger in math and science. Princeton has the amazing freshman seminars; when I last checked Yale did not have these. Unless they have recently added them, that is a definite plus for Princeton.</p>
<p>Thanks for the correction Crimsonbulldog--you're right of course, it's 36 credits to graduate.</p>
<p>Actually, most people would agree that Yale is stronger in science than Princeton. There is more scientific research on the central campus per student than any other school in the country, except Caltech and MIT. The ISI, the leading provider of scientific information, says that Caltech, Harvard and Yale have the greatest scientific research impact of any universities in the world.</p>
<p>Yale is in a city (one of the best college towns in the country, with many tens of thousands of college students in the area and a downtown filled with 100s of restaurants), and because of that it's a much more exciting location. Also, Yale has a lot of renowned professional schools, such as business, law, medicine, art, architecture, drama, music, environmental studies, etc., that also contribute a great deal of activity to the campus and also offer the opportunity to branch out more into special areas of study. </p>
<p>Princeton is very isolated, although you can take a bus for a half hour to Rutgers. Both of your choices are great, but I think Yale students tend to be happier overall because of things to do, a more compact campus so its easier to see all your friends -- none of the dorms are off campus, in fact they are all within a three or four minute walk of each other, unlike almost any other school. Also, Yale places slightly more emphasis on undergraduates than Princeton, from what I've seen, also making students very happy. In fact, the Princeton Review rated Yale the #1 "Best Overall Undergraduate Academic Experience" out of any university or college in the country, and David Brooks (a famous UChicago alumnus and writer) has published articles explaining why he thinks Yale provides the best undergrad education in the country.</p>
<p>Go with where you think you'll have the best experience, especially in terms of with the other students. You'll have a great time and keep these friends for your whole life. This is what matters most!</p>
<p>Good luck with your choice.</p>
<p>Yale's sciences are great and underated, but they are not the best in the world with Harvard. But for my own info, I couldn't find that ISI report you are talking about. Is this it? </p>
<p>"Of the institutions here, none achieved greater distinction than Harvard University, which appears in seven of the eleven rankings, and in the top spot in all but one of those appearances (the exception being chemistry, where Harvard came in at #10). The University of Texas System also accounts for seven placements, while the University of California, San Francisco, is not far behind with six. Johns Hopkins University, the National Cancer Institute (NCI), and the University of Tokyo each score five appearances, with Stanford, Yale, the University of Washington, and Washington University of St. Louis each making four of the lists."</p>
<p>It depends how you measure it. There were other rankings I was going to cite from that website, showing Caltech/Harvard/Yale at the top, but either way, Yale stands above Princeton. </p>
<p>Harvard is obviously a bit more prominent overall than, say, Yale, because it has larger departments (e.g., something like 4000 staff members instead of 3000 staff members in the sciences). But in terms of research quality, and especially in terms of undergraduate access to laboratory research, it probably stands below Caltech and possibly Yale and MIT.</p>
<p>With all due respect, posterX, given your past slant (to put it mildly) towards Yale, please cite sources. Your statements are extravagant, no doubt. But credible? Well, I have yet to see why.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually, most people would agree that Yale is stronger in science than Princeton.
[/quote]
Do they really? Since we seem to be chatting to entirely different groups of people, please prove it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Princeton is very isolated
[/quote]
That's a tad bit of exaggeration. With NYC and Philly a train ride away and a vibrant campus, it shouldn't be too bad at all, and definitely not "very isolated".</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, Yale places slightly more emphasis on undergraduates than Princeton
[/quote]
Somewhat hard to believe, don't you think, considering that Princeton's graduate programs are very limited whereas Yale also has far more (very fine) grad/prof. schools? Not to mention the fact that Princeton's got the highest per student endowment in the US of 1.64 million, $300,000 more than Yale's. I don't know by what other means you judge this otherwise subjective criteria.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League</a>
[quote]
In fact, the Princeton Review rated Yale the #1 "Best Overall Undergraduate Academic Experience" out of any university or college in the country.
[/quote]
Now this is a FLAT OUT LIE. It was actually ranked 19th. I really don't care much for rankings, especially TPR rankings, but let's not pull numbers out of our a$$es, shall we? <a href="http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?CategoryID=1&TopicID=9%5B/url%5D">http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?CategoryID=1&TopicID=9</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
David Brooks (a famous UChicago alumnus and writer) has published articles explaining why he thinks Yale provides the best undergrad education in the country
[/quote]
For starters, David Brooks is rather controversial for his conservative leaning, famous though he may be. Just a quick search through CC would show you that much. As for him saying "Yale provides the best undergraduate education in the country", if he's said it, I can't find it. Perhaps posterX could post the link? Of course, he may have said something along those lines, since after all, 3 of his children attend Yale. Bias, maybe? The only thing I can find where he compares Princeton and Yale in the same sentence is when he says: </p>
<p>
[quote]
"Students at Yale are basically the same as here. It's not just Princeton," said Brooks.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So with all due respect, if we're going to make such powerful statements as fact, let's give people reason to believe them.</p>
<p>The PR rankings fluctuate from year to year.</p>
<p>Also, Brooks' discussion of Yale is in an article he wrote for a major national news magazine. Search any major library catalogue and you'll find it very quickly. It's been posted here before, too.</p>
<p>I really can't advocate going to one school just because you don't like the other school's location. If you love one school, you should go to that school. From what I've read about Yale, it's an amazing (and one-of-a-kind) experience. If I were you I would not hesitate to go their and sounds like that's honestly the place you want to be.</p>
<p>Actually, Tetris, the location is one of the biggest components of your school experience. The academics at both places are fantastic. Princeton better in sciences, Yale in thing like Comp Lit. But you are in the location every minute, in your classes just during class time.</p>
<p>Princeton = better in sciences</p>
<p>Yale = better most humanties</p>
<p>posterX: Actually, this year's #1 for TPR's Overall Academic Experience for Ugrads is Reed College.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Princeton = better in sciences</p>
<p>Yale = better most humanties
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Princeton is also better in math, economics, political science, and sociology.</p>
<p>I would definitely not cite Yale as better than Princeton in comparative literature. While Yale has one of the top graduate programs, its undergraduate program (the "literature major") is not as good as Princeton's from what I've been able to gather.</p>
<p>Princeton is most certainly excellent in math, the sciences, and engineering, but I would not say that its humanities lag behind those. If anything, the humanities/social science departments are setting the bar. The difference is minute, but I did want to note the comp. lit. difference :)</p>