princeton or yale - help me

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
21

<p>No school is going to be perfect in every category, and I'd say that the dorms at both Princeton and Yale, for the most part, are very nice. Some are, of course, better than others, but with some effort you can make your dorm room comfortable, regardless of its size or location on campus.</p>

<p>As far as eating clubs go, I believe they're largely misunderstood. I would suggest finding a current student to talk to (here, or elsewhere), if that's one of your primary concerns. And if you have, and it's still a concern, then maybe you'll feel more comfortable at Yale -- and that's fine.</p>

<p>In terms of academics, it's really a pointless debate. You're going to get an incredible education at either institution. It seems to me that Princeton places more emphasis on Undergraduates, seeing as most of the professors come to Princeton specifically for the purpose of teaching Undergraduates, but I'm sure that's arguable (or, at least, I'm sure some would argue it). As it relates to grade deflation, to reiterate what others have said, it doesn't affect GPAs all that much, and any Graduate school that you plan on applying to will be fully aware of Princeton's policies.</p>

<p>In terms of location, I do believe that Princeton has the edge -- but that's my personal opinion. Although New Haven isn't exactly a, well... haven, safety shouldn't be too big of a worry. Most, if not all, of the students at Yale feel perfectly safe, and for good reason. Personally, I love the town of Princeton, and I also love that NYC and Philly are only short (and inexpensive) train rides away, but New Haven's, of course, a little bigger itself, and not terribly far from NYC or Boston.</p>

<p>All in all, choose where you're going to feel most comfortable right now. You can't make a "wrong" decision, because I'm positive that you'll be happy at either institution. Good luck!</p>

22

<p>Hey zach. These were some nice insights, but consider my case. I really love the way Princeton balances itself between Science and humanities, it's just the way I function. Academically, Princeton is my place to be.</p>

<p>But somehow I tend to be afraid that Princeton is cliquish. Do the International students fit in very naturally? How often do fun-events happen...concerts, formals and trips? I haven't visited the place, you see, for geographical constraints. And what is Princeton town like? Does it go to sleep early? Because I'm nocturnal. It pains me to see how vague I am, and I'm sure I'm sure whatever decision I'm gonna make is going to be an ill-informed one.</p>

<p>At this moment I'm leaning towards Yale, for the reason that I got to talk to some student who really elaborated on the life at Yale. And I liked it. Now let's see if some Princetonian can convince me otherwise... Just what do you DO at Princeton? </p>

<p>Another question. Supposing I was going to grad school for, say Physics. Would it make a considerable difference if I had a Yale degree or Princeton's?</p>

23

<p>Huda--There are apparently some admitted students online chats going on today and tomorrow for Princeton. Is there any way you could go on any of those? If you don't know when they are, you could call or e-mail the admissions department and they would give you the information. That way you could ask your questions and speak to some kids who might well be going to the school.</p>

24

<p>From what I've seen, I'd have to agree with you that Yale's campus life is much stronger than Princeton's. Yale is packed with students going everywhere, having fun and doing things all weekend long. Princeton just seems dull and boring by comparison.</p>

<p>The main reason some people think Yale is less of a "science" school than a place like MIT or Berkeley is because Yale's humanities and arts departments are the best in the world. When you're #1 at something, it's hard to shake the people - especially rivals - who are inevitably saying that because you're #1 you're not as good at something else. Yale's science departments are among the best, but they don't stand out as #1 in the same way; in fact, no school does, because there are so many incredible universities, including Yale, when it comes to scientific research. The tops, in terms of the number of National Academy of Sciences members on the faculty, would be Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Berkeley and MIT. The other thing to consider is that, although its basic science departments were incredibly strong about 10 or 20 years ago, some of Yale's engineering departments were underfunded back then. But since then, the engineering programs have all been rebuilt and are now among the best in the country. (<a href="http://www.sciencewatch.com/nov-dec2002/sw_nov-dec2002_page2.htm#Engineering%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sciencewatch.com/nov-dec2002/sw_nov-dec2002_page2.htm#Engineering&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>The best way to look at the sciences, aside from talking with current science majors and professors at each school, is to consider that Yale does over $300 million in federal research per year, while Princeton does less than a third of that. Per undergraduate science major, that means Yale students have about 3 times more access to cutting-edge laboratory research, and everything I've heard supports that. Caltech, Yale and MIT lead the pack when it comes to the amount of research funded on the central campus, per undergraduate. Sure, Berkeley might have a bit more research than any of those three, but nobody considers Berkeley to be the top undergraduate science school because in terms of research per undergrad, there's no comparison with a place like Caltech or Yale.</p>

25

<p>Yale has a very strong science program, better than princeton in biology, chemisty, and medical fields. Yale is also top ten in math. Physics at princeton is hard to beat, but in terms of undergrad education, you won't lose out on going to yale. (It is true that yale has the the fifth most national academy members - National academy of science, National academy of Engineering and the Institute of Medicine). I wouldn't go as far as saying Yale is the best in science in the country as PosterX does, but it is alot stronger than everyone says. I think it is due to the fact that Yale really does dominate in the humanities and arts. </p>

<p>Pretty much you could nitpick between the two and say that well, Yale is better in English and history, while princeton is better in math and sociology etc... but in the end, what it comes down to, is being the most comfortable. Yale's residential college system is awesome. Each college has tons of resources and ameneties, both socially and academically - and that it is the reallyd defining experience of going to Yale. For a tour, of an example college (Branford), follow the links:
<a href="http://www.yale.edu/admit/freshmen/residential_life/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/admit/freshmen/residential_life/index.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.yale.edu/about/tour.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/about/tour.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

26

<p>I might add that, in addition to the physical science ranking I posted above, ISI/Sciencewatch says that Harvard, Stanford, UCSD, Yale and MIT are considered the top five universities in biology.</p>

<p>A slightly different ranking of "average" showing, published in the same article (Sciencewatch/ISI Highest Impact U.S. Universities, 1997-2001, Sept-Oct 2002), says Caltech, Harvard, Yale, Duke, and MIT are the top five. </p>

<p>Princeton does not fall within the top ten in either ranking.</p>

27

<p>"From what I've seen, I'd have to agree with you that Yale's campus life is much stronger than Princeton's. Yale is packed with students going everywhere, having fun and doing things all weekend long. Princeton just seems dull and boring by comparison."</p>

<p>WHAT???????????? Where on earth are you getting this? The only problem I have heard about on the Princeton campus over the past few years is that there is way too much to choose from and way too many fun, interesting students to do it all with. Every weekend brings parties, cultural events, trips, etc., and during the week there are world-class speakers competing with practices, rehearsals, meetings, receptions and dinners with famous faculty and visitors, etc. You really hurt your credibility with postings like that one.</p>

28

<p>As a Yale troll, I too can vouch for the vibrancy of Princeton's campus. There is a ton to do and the students are all very involved. My gripe is with the town, not the campus. The campus is wonderful as are the students. I think maybe PosterX is referring to the town as it can be rather lacking in some respects and dead at night. The social life is campus based.</p>

29

<p>As aparent said, PosterX damages his credibility with statements like that, so I won't respond to him. If you think that the difference in academic qualaity between either of these two schools is anything but marginal, you are probabaly biased. Its one thing to praise a specific department, another to make sweeping generalizations about Princeton sciences not comparing to that of Yale.</p>

<p>Huda - From Sunday - Wednesday, people are generally busy with work and ECs, so the social life is more informal - stopping by friend's rooms, grabbing something to eat, etc. However, on any night there are events that students can attend - tonight, for example, there is a marathon of the show 24, an African film screening, a piano concert, and several lectures. Extracurricular activities take up a lot of time for many students - particularly for those in performing groups and theater.</p>

<p>Thursday night is when the weekend begins. Generally, there are a number of events to go to in the evening - plays, concerts, films - and then, many students will go to the eating clubs (mainly Thursday and Saturday nights). The Street doesn't really get crowded until 1, so if you choose not to spend much time there, it isn't like you'll be isolated, just better rested!</p>

<p>Students do go to NYC sometimes, though generally because they want to attend a specific event or exhibit, not just on a a whim. The residential colleges also sponsor trips periodical (maybe once a month?) to Broadway shows and other events in the city. There are concerts on campus all the time. There is one official freshman formal, and then the eating clubs sponsor some. </p>

<p>International students seem very comfortable here. Certainly, there are a pretty good number of them. The one problem my international friends seem to have is that Princeton's unusual vacation schedule means that they get slightly less time at home - most internationals only go home for winter break, which is only three weeks at Princeton, rather than four or even five at some other schools. However, some internationals remedy this problem by coming back to school after reading period, which would mean that you would have to study at home, but that you would get more time there.</p>

<p>I don't find Princeton particularly "cliquish," although clearly people tend to make a lot of friends through clubs or activities. Personally, I have three groups of friends: People I know through my Jewish activities, a group I've met in one of my classes, and people that live in my residential college. However, this is just a practical distinction, and is in no way exclusionary.</p>

<p>The town of Princeton isn't an all-night town. You can't go out in the middle of the night and get food. There is a convenience store on campus open 24 hours, and the dining areas and cafe at Frist stay open until 2. There is also a Wawa opened quite late. However, this is a suburb, so you won't find much of a town life past 11. </p>

<p>As others have said, you can't go wrong with your choice. I personally love Princeton, and I think almost anyone could be happy here. However, since Yale is such a great school, too, the choice, of course, should be based on personal preference.</p>

30

<p>ICargil brings up another point: schedule. At Yale one takes final exams before winter break, but after a 10 day reading period (which then equates to a free month), while at princeton you take exams after winter break. Now this has its upside in that you can study more for exams, but then again, that is your vacation, so take it as you will.</p>

31

<p>"But since then, the engineering programs have all been rebuilt and are now among the best in the country."</p>

<p>not exactly. according to the latest u.s. news rankings, yale's undergraduate engineering program is only the <em>44th</em> best in the country. that makes it "among the best" only if you define "best" extremely loosely. princeton, by way of comparison, is #12 in those rankings, second in the ivies behind only cornell (#10). if you want to compare the two by national academy membership, as before, well, princeton has 20 NAE members to yale's five.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nae.edu/nae/naepub.nsf/Members+By+Parent+InstitutionA?openview%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nae.edu/nae/naepub.nsf/Members+By+Parent+InstitutionA?openview&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

32

<p>Hey, you know what? The similarities between Princeton and Yale far outweigh any differences between them. It really comes down to a few things:</p>

<p>(1) Location. Princeton is "safe", Yale is OK, but not totally "safe." Yale is an urban environment, Princeton suburban. It is slightly easier and quicker to get into NYC or Philadelphia from Princeton than it is to get to NYC from Yale, but only slightly.</p>

<p>(2) Size. The undergraduate programs are about the same size (Princeton in ramping up), but Yale University is much larger than Princeton. That means more things going on, more people coming through. For example, Princeton has no equivalent to the Yale Drama School. Undergraduate education is central to both universities, but has an easier time staying central at Princeton, since it doesn't have much competition.</p>

<p>(3) Residential college system. Yale has 100% affiliation with 4-year residential colleges. It is a wonderful system; by the time you graduate you feel very close to a large number of people that you share very few interests with, but have lived with/next to for four years. I have never heard of a college residential system that works better than Yale's. Princeton has residential colleges modelled on Yale's, but only for the first two years (although in the future it will have some 4-year options). After that, the decks are reshuffled, and the eating clubs (or substitutes) become the social focus (to some extent, like fraternities, but in a very Princeton way). Princetonians tend to love their eating clubs; no reason to be afraid of them.</p>

<p>Years ago, I chose Yale, largely because it was then the center of the world in English and comp lit (that's no longer true), because I loved the residential college system (which Princeton then didn't have), and because my best friend was also going to go there. I loved it, but I would have loved Princeton, too, and I know lots of people who did.</p>

<p>So relax, enjoy your fabulous choice, and go with your gut.</p>

33

<p>FScottie, those rankings do not consider program size and are highly biased as a result, towards mega"factories" like Purdue and University of Illinois. If you look more carefully, you'll see Yale is the smallest program to be ranked among the top 50, in fact ranking better than many programs over three or four times its size. On a quality basis, Yale has the #1 engineering program in the country, which is what the rankings I posted clearly show.</p>

<p>As far as other differences go:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Yale has a significantly higher yield rate than Princeton despite the fact that Princeton has a more binding early %, indicating Yale is generally the more popular choice. The Hoxby Revealed Preference study confirms that Harvard and Yale are generally seen as significantly more desirable than Princeton, by most applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>I don't think NYC is easier to get to from Princeton than from Yale. New Haven has express trains to and from NYC running nearly 24 hours per day and there are something like 45 to 50 of them each day, counted altogether. Princeton is much smaller so the trains don't run as often. Another difference with the location is that New Haven is located on the coast, meaning beautiful beaches are just a few minutes away, by bicycle, bus or car. Princeton is inland, so don't expect being able to go to see beautiful waterfront ocean views whenever you'd like. New Haven also has much larger state parks within close proximity, so hiking, mountain climbing or biking is a much more available option. Princeton is caught in the midst of mind-numbing, ugly, typical suburban "sprawl."</p></li>
</ol>

34

<p>don't be ridiculous, X. the u.s. news rankings are based entirely on "peer assessment score," not size or output. princeton's engineering program is probably no bigger than yale's (it has a smaller student body, after all), yet despite this shared, supposed "handicap," it ranks 32 spots higher than yale and has four times the number of professors in the NAE. in short, it is substantially "better" than yale, as everyone in the discipline knows.</p>

<p>second, new york city is in fact "easier to get to from princeton than from yale." princeton is about 50 miles away; new haven, about 80. the train station to both new york and philadelphia is literally right on the princeton campus. trains run frequently, as many princeton residents and professors make the daily commute. in fact, i count 51 trains per day in the schedule i have attached.</p>

<p>finally, no one but a yale troll would describe princeton as "caught in the midst of mind-numbing, ugly, typical suburban 'sprawl.'" in fact, i think in just another recent post you bashed it as "isolated" - rather a contradiction. money magazine recently rated princeton as one of the top 15 towns in the country (new haven did not make the top 100), a recent MSNBC article put it among the top 10 college towns, and epodunk has it as the #2 college town in its category. it has the charm and safety of a university town with easy access to two of the biggest cities in the country. in that way, it enjoys the best of both worlds. with your new haven boasts, you're trying in vain to turn a negative into a positive, because as everyone knows, the shabby state of that city is a major reason yale loses cross-admits to places like princeton.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/current/r0070.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/current/r0070.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/top100_1.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://money.cnn.com/best/bplive/top100_1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9593731/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9593731/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/princeton.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/princeton.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

35

<p>meeh, you guys are fighting like 10 year olds, fighting for who can pi$$ farther in a pi$$ing contest :)</p>

<p>Pinceton is a great skool. Yale is a great skool. The OP can't go wrong with either</p>

36

<p>Being isolated and being in the midst of suburban strip malls, like Princeton, is not a contradiction. It's actually the sad state of affairs in most of America. And contrary to what some people believe, living in one of these suburban areas is actually much more dangerous than living in a city because of the severely increased risk of car accidents.</p>

<p>Yale, on the other hand, is in the middle of one of the few walkable, livable cities in the country, with supermarkets, movie theaters, bars, nightclubs, 24 hour diners, public libraries, a city hall, thousands of businesses, hundreds of restaurants and stores all located within a short walk of the central city "Green", a park created nearly 400 years ago. You can find links to some of the press coverage about it here: <a href="http://www.econ.yale.edu/%7Esteveb/new-haven.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.econ.yale.edu/~steveb/new-haven.html&lt;/a>. As a result of this, million dollar condos and apartments are being built in the old buildings all over downtown New Haven, while quite the opposite, wealthy people in suburban New Jersey are increasingly choosing to avoid the mind-numbingness of the sprawling suburban state and purchase houses in nearby New York or Philadelphia instead. Sure, cities like New York and New Haven used to be "shabby", back in the 1980s and mid-1990s, but they are now among the most desirable places to live in the United States.</p>

<p>As far as engineering goes, the ranking I posted stands - it's from the most respected scientific research organization in the world. Everyone knows that the US News specialty rankings are biased in favor of larger schools. Princeton has many more engineering students than Yale. In fact, Princeton likes to claim it is great for undergraduate education but the fact is, Yale and Harvard have more faculty members per undergraduate major in most of the most popular fields of study.</p>

37

<p>oh god, why do I feel that posterx is really an anti-yale troll in disguise! PosterX, you are making some outrageous claims about Yale's engineering department, Princeton life and New Haven in general.</p>

38

<p>I don't think any of my claims are outrageous, given that they are supported by research from ISI, which is by far the oldest and most respected scientific information organization in the world. Faculty members get tenure based on what the ISI says about their research. Of course, you're welcome to disagree, and as I've said before, the best way to choose a college is to visit for a few days at each of all of your choices and make an informed decision. But it's not like I'm not the only one with these opinions.</p>

39

<p>
[quote]
Being isolated and being in the midst of suburban strip malls, like Princeton, is not a contradiction. It's actually the sad state of affairs in most of America. And contrary to what some people believe, living in one of these suburban areas is actually much more dangerous than living in a city because of the severely increased risk of car accidents.</p>

<p>Yale, on the other hand, is in the middle of one of the few walkable, livable cities in the country, with supermarkets, movie theaters, bars, nightclubs, 24 hour diners, public libraries, a city hall, thousands of businesses, hundreds of restaurants and stores all located within a short walk of the central city "Green", a park created nearly 400 years ago. You can find links to some of the press coverage about it here: <a href="http://www.econ.yale.edu/%7Esteveb/new-haven.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.econ.yale.edu/~steveb/new-haven.html&lt;/a>. As a result of this, million dollar condos and apartments are being built in the old buildings all over downtown New Haven, while quite the opposite, wealthy people in suburban New Jersey are increasingly choosing to avoid the mind-numbingness of the sprawling suburban state and purchase houses in nearby New York or Philadelphia instead. Sure, cities like New York and New Haven used to be "shabby", back in the 1980s and mid-1990s, but they are now among the most desirable places to live in the United States.</p>

<p>As far as engineering goes, the ranking I posted stands - it's from the most respected scientific research organization in the world. Everyone knows that the US News specialty rankings are biased in favor of larger schools. Princeton has many more engineering students than Yale. In fact, Princeton likes to claim it is great for undergraduate education but the fact is, Yale and Harvard have more faculty members per undergraduate major in most of the most popular fields of study.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hahahaha...a few more posts like these, and the OP's coming to Princeton...</p>

40

<p>There's been a huge shift in central cities, which the OP should be aware of. The prices of housing in gentrifying cities such as Brooklyn, Manhattan, New Haven, central Boston or Westwood have tripled in the past five years, while nationwide average prices are only up about 30-40%. These places have at least one coffeeshop (sometimes a Starbucks, even!) on every block. If you draw a nationwide "map" of areas that have two coffeeshops on every block, you'll end up a map of cities like these, and certainly not places like Princeton.</p>

<p>It's really interesting that New York City, for example, used to have between 2,000 and 3,000 murders per year, and now has only about 600 per year. Meanwhile, over 100 people - many of them college students - are dying every single <em>day</em> on the nation's roads, primarily in suburban and rural areas. This is an enormous number of deaths, many times bigger than 9/11 and much worse than urban crime, that nobody is discussing. </p>

<p>Traffic deaths get about a day of news coverage and are then forgotten, whereas other types of crimes that happened long ago, like the murder in Princeton in the 1980s, are still talked about today!</p>