<p>It was an Environmental Decision Making class - we had to write a letter to investors recommending a particular level of LEED certification for a office building development in Toronto. We had to keep it to a page, but research everything and use it as evidence. This was an actual project that my professor’s firm received and got paid tons of money to do. I received a B because my case for Platinum certification was not strong enough/it would cost the investors too much compared to perceived gain. Other people had a compelling enough argument to convince the investors (the professor) that Platinum was the way to go.</p>
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<p>lol, father91, my son at Harvard took up the opportunity to finish in three years so we saved 50K.</p>
<p>“I think Princeton may not be the best fit for your student.” - Stemit, with all due respect, don’t they teach any critical thinking/analysis skills at Princeton whereby you shouldn’t just make “blanket opinion statements” such as this without any subsequent facts to explain or defend your statement?</p>
<p>alexcuad, thanks for a fascinating answer! Sounds like an interesting assignment.</p>
<p>I’ve been following this thread, and your other one about preppy clothing. </p>
<p>Here’s what I know to be true: At any university, you can find lots of students who are happy. You can also find a certain percentage of students who are unhappy or who don’t like some aspect of academic or social life. Not one college is perfect for everyone – and more specifically – not one college is perfect!</p>
<p>For both my kids, their decision came down to a gut feeling. </p>
<p>If your child is lucky enough to be accepted to HYP or a host of other great colleges, you cannot go wrong with whatever choice they make. You really can’t!</p>
<p>After April 1st, your family should re-visit all of your child’s top choices – and not just on invited student weekends, as those events often give false impressions. Have them take a couple of days off from school; go eat in a dining hall, talk to professor’s and students. Audit a class, if you can. Go back for a 2nd and 3rd visit if need be. Walk the campus with your child. Believe me, they WILL show a preference for one school over the other. </p>
<p>Unlike other Dean’s of Admissions, Jeffrey Brenzel still teaches class every year. He gets to teach the students that he accepts, and as a teacher of philosophy, he has written words that everyone should read, no matter college they end up attending: [Epilogue:</a> After Colleges Accept You | Yale College Admissions](<a href=“http://admissions.yale.edu/after-colleges-accept-you]Epilogue:”>After Colleges Accept You | Yale College Undergraduate Admissions)</p>
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<p>Hsmom. Here’s my critical thinking. (Btw, in your OP you complained that no student even bothered to offer a conclusory word as to their level of “happiness.” I hadn’t realized that you needed greater detail.)</p>
<p>Get your student through the gauntlet of admissions. Once he/she is in the lucky 5ish percent, visit the school during the period that Princeton is courting the lucky few. Ask questions to actual students, actual professors, actual preceptors. Share all you concerns with the people who actually have real knowledge - instead of on an Internet forum where all opinions are worth the paper on which those opinions are printed.</p>
<p>Your issues are so granular that a group of actual Princeton students would offer differing opinions - and those opinions may change year to year and course to course. (For example: bag lunches for the sick; student attire; where to buy the clothes you saw in a photo album of students; what does someone need to do to earn an “A;” what is the real impact of the curve, social clubs (on your MIT thread you imply that certain clubs are for the non- studious), etc.)</p>
<p>What you can glean from all the comments is a general feeling that Princeton is a very rewarding experience. But what goes into each student’s experiences to reach that conclusion is very unique to that student.</p>
<p>Go to the school and get the answers to your questions. And, with your inquiring mind and areas of inquisition, you can formulate conclusions based on the information you actually observe/see/hear.</p>
<p>And most important question to ask hosts/students during admitted students weekend: “Does this much stuff go on all the time? Is this an accurate representation of the average weekend?” </p>
<p>I visited Bowdoin and they had all sorts of different events scheduled … I asked and it turns out that they had purposely put everything into the admit. student weekend. At Princeton I asked and they said that yes, there is always tons of stuff going on - which is true. </p>
<p>Don’t get a false impression from admit. student weekends.</p>
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To be honest, I agree with stemit. Between this and the thread about preppy clothing, you are too involved, or perhaps involved in the wrong ways, in your child’s college search.</p>
<p>You comment that a “B” seems like an ok grade, but wanted to know why students are happy with a B. If you’re going to be unhappy if your student comes home with a couple of B’s or worse, a whole slate of B’s or even C’s, and you’re in charge of paying the bills, I suggest you find a school where your student will be in the top 1% of the student body, not a highly selective university. Anyone who gets into Princeton is an able student, and someone getting even a C in a class at Priceton is still average FOR PRINCETON! At a place like Princeton the classes are not designed so the everyone can get an A, unlike what we can expect at some high schools. HS grades have become so over-inflated, many people have no concept of what a B really is (above average).</p>
<p>stemit replied earlier in this same thread, and you were grateful for the comments, yet seem to feel insulted that he thinks it might not be a good fit for your family. Often that type of assessment is a gut feeling - just like your student may reject what you consider a perfectly wonderful school based on what you feel is a silly reason. But underlying that silly reason is some other sense that it is not a good fit. You don’t always have to quantify why. As involved as you seem to be in the college selection process, I would suggest you step back and let your child ask the questions. You will not be living on campus, and you are not the one who will be happy or unhappy. The questions you have asked might or might not be all that important to your student.</p>
<p>A school where your happy is only good if you can handle the academic rigor. Most students I have known who were unhappy with their chosen college were those who “settled” based on someone else’s criteria, or they never did any research and didn’t visit the school. Let your student guide the selection process - you get to decide the budget, and maybe veto power. But this is your student’s decision, not yours. Don’t push him int o a college he will end up disliking, or away from one he might love by imposing your own standards.</p>
<p>I also thought stemit made a good point but was perhaps a bit blunt.</p>
<p>HSmom, if you are overly fixated on your child’s grades then probably good to realize that at schools like Princeton, Yale, Harvard, etc – they won’t be special kids within an honor’s college within a larger context of less motivated and/or talented kids. They will be lucky to be somewhat average in their context. That is a truly shocking experience for many kids and their parents.</p>
<p>Regarding the assignment in question – it was writing. All parents should know, imo, that there truly is no such thing as a perfect piece of writing. Of course, a paper can always be a B+ or B or A- even though a highly talented kid worked their tail off writing it. That’s just the reality. At the schools under discussion here, the writing standards are extremely high. It is not a situation where the kid can simply check-off the items on a rubric and snag an A. If that is not your comfort zone for your child, then best to give it some thought.</p>
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<p>Undergraduates Living in College Housing
98% - Harvard
98% - Princeton</p>
<p>I want to add to sewhappy’s comment: “They will be lucky to be somewhat average in their context. That is a truly shocking experience for many kids and their parents.”</p>
<p>In high school, my kids were straight ‘A’ students; they were both way above average. At H & Y, however, they are just average – and there is nothing wrong with that! Both, at times, struggle just to tread water. They have had to adjust to a new reality, as they have met truly extraordinary students who have accomplished at 19-years old what adults sometimes try their entire life to do. Need examples? A writer, who at 17, had a Broadway play produced to rave reviews in the NY Times. In between going to classes, the student now writes scripts for HBO. Or, the 20 year old student who is CEO of his own company that is now on the Fortune 500 list. In between going to classes, the student manages his company. Anybody is average compared to some of the best and brightest in the world! Getting a ‘B’ next to these ‘A’ students is an awesome accomplishment in-and-of itself. And BTW: some of those multi-talented students are too busy with their “other life” that they are NOT the students who get the ‘A’. Sometimes those kudos go to the truly gifted.</p>
<p>I’m having trouble buying that these are questions from a parent. What grown person asks about preppy dress? For that matter, I can’t imagine these posts coming from a HS senior, thus my confusion. There’s something very off about posts by the OP. That degree of scrutiny would warrant a restraining order IRL.</p>
<p>stemit, thank you very much for a very thoughtful and genuine post. Just to put one thing “to rest”, however, although not confirmed 100%, it does appear that the pictures I saw of SO many with “preppy clothes” were of a specific event held, rather than pictures offering a “day to day” view, but since I had NOT known this at the time, hopefully you (and others) can understand why seeing dozens of students all dressed similarly at one college would be cause to inquire if that is how “all or most” of the students dressed most (or all?) of the time, and if so, to further inquire as to just what stores they might shop at since one who is “uninitiated” in “preppy clothes” might be uncertain of the best places to shop if that is the “uniform du jour”. (Sorry for the extreme run-on sentence! :-)) Even if only for particular events, I still appreciate those who offered specific recommendations to purchase that type of clothing. </p>
<p>In terms of “bagged lunches”, “A’s”, etc., those were NOT the main focus of my initial posts - merely interested “follow-up inquiries” to what others shared, and which peaked my interest. (And based on private messages received, and/or number of views, apparently others who are reticent to post publicly found my questions helpful as well). </p>
<p>Of course, one should not base their final decisions solely on clothes, or food, or ease (or difficulty) of earning A’s, or residential housing, etc. But I DO believe that all of these “small factors” do add up to what defines the “culture” of a campus. I can easily find the courses a college offers, and no doubt any of the Ivy Leagues offer a stellar academic education, but there is much more to one’s 4 years on campus than JUST the academics, and it’s the “other stuff” that often determines whether one has a good “fit” or not. If you feel I am not asking the most appropriate questions to determine either “fit” or “culture”, I more than welcome any other suggestions. However, what you have already suggested in your most recent post (regarding actually viewing a campus, etc.) makes perfectly good and logical sense. Thank you.</p>
<p>PS I wrote this prior to reading “lefthandofdog’s” post. Hopefully, my comments geared towards stemit explain my original intent, particularly re: my clothing question, and puts your own concerns to rest.</p>
<p>CTScoutmom, while I appreciate your input, I need to clarify something. I never asked “why students are happy with a B” nor did I ever say that I would be unhappy if my own child came home with a B. I think you misinterpreted my questions that were directed to another poster who had commented about an assignment that he had put “a lot of genuine effort into” and based on his posts, I clearly believed him to be highly intelligent, and I was simply curious what it required to earn an “A” at a school like Princeton. I believe my questions were valid, and that the original poster answered them clearly and consisely, and I thanked him for his fascinating answer.</p>
<p>sewhappy, I didn’t know the assignment was one involving “writing” as the original post did not indicate what the nature of the assignment was – hence why I both asked, and if you review my post, you will note I also specifically asked if it was possibly an assignment involving “writing” as I wholeheartedly agree that grading a student’s writing is often subjective.</p>
<p>For anyone else, I think a discussion specifically regarding grades, grade inflation, or grade deflation is digressing quite a bit from my original question. Or rather, the “intent” of my question. Yes, I understand this is a “hot button” for many, but I would prefer input on how “happy” students are in ways OTHER than the grading policies of Princeton.</p>
<p>DS is happy. I’d estimate his satisfaction on a 10 point scale as follows.</p>
<p>Grading policies - 9
Preparation for grad school admission - 10
Preparation for employment - 10
Eating clubs - 8
Finding interesting peers - 9
Access to internships - 10
Satisfaction with athletic experience - 10
Opportunities through career placement office - 10</p>
<p>Hmmm . . . my sense is that the preppy dress at Princeton is generally ironic in intent.</p>
<p>Hsmom. If you have the time and inclination (and haven’t done so), read the Daily Princetonian. The articles there pretty much capture the community and its diverse interests and happenings. Here’s a link to a series the Prince is running. You can get to the entire paper from there.</p>
<p>[Love</a> and lust in the bubble: Liquid courage - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2012/09/27/31273/]Love”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2012/09/27/31273/)</p>
<p>Thanks stemit! I greatly appreciate the link and suggestion!! :-))</p>
<p>HSMOM: Be extremely skeptical about what you see on college-made brochures or videos, what you see or are told on college tours, and the falsefront you see on admitted students’ weekends.</p>
<p>As someone posted, the Daily Princetonian is a better way to follow the school, as it is student-run and pretty much uncensored. However, it is a newspaper, and doesn’t run regular articles on clothing, the difficulty of physics classes, whether the girls are less happy than the boys, or about the parties over the weekend.</p>
<p>The only way to find out what a school is really like is for your child to stay overnight with a student (hopefully one that he or she knows and not one the school sets up as their mouthpiece), talk to other students, attend some classes and talk to some professors that he or she approaches in an unscheduled fashion. That means that a good part or all of the trip has to be without the parents (my second trip to Princeton and only trip to Dartmouth were both without my parents, and both were overnights). I can’t imagine making a $250,000 investment without doing this.</p>
<p>Regarding dress, and this goes back a ways, I wore jeans and t-shirts most of the time. None of my friends or members of my eating club dressed preppy – they would have been teased unmercifully for wearing something like a LaCoste alligator shirt. While I was in college, an Esquire article showed photos of exquisitely-dressed young gentlemen and ladies playing croquet at one of the preppy clubs during our annual house parties weekend. The photos were of the preppiest club members on the dressiest event of the year. The article made Princeton look like it was a step back to British high society of the 1900’s. We thought the article was a riot. </p>
<p>The different dress styles haven’t changed, from what I’ve seen when I go back. Kids dress in a wide variety of ways.</p>
<p>In other words, you’re going to find a lot of diversity at Princeton, and the same goes for other colleges.</p>