<p>Hang on there, Arch. All I’ve done is simply point out the inconsistencies (which still exist) in your previous post, undermining its credibility. I think I’ve already said that I wish you well and I mean it. I’ve complimented you on your test scores and on your acceptances. I understand you are remaining on the Harvard waitlist and I wish you luck.</p>
<p>I still don’t buy your current explanation for your previous post and anyone who takes you up on your offer to check your prior posts is likely to come to the same conclusion. The violence of your response speaks volumes.</p>
<p>And as for this statement:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…isn’t that a little difficult to reconcile with these?</p>
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</p>
<p>It’s a little hard to see how you would hold a school in high regard that you consider gloomy, isolated, elitist, superficial, alienating and full of academic apathy along with not very bright students.</p>
<p>Perhaps you would like to explain what you really mean.</p>
<p>By the way, the argument is far from inane. Trash talk is bad form on these boards especially when it is accompanied by deception.</p>
<p>Did you go to these parties? If not, how could you depict those who attended them? If you did go, did you meet everyone who was in attendance and were they mostly all the same?</p>
<p>“There were the obvious rural smart kids, but they were few and far between.”</p>
<p>How many current Princeton students did you meet? We were there, too, and really got to meet, perhaps, less than 20 in total. Thus, I would feel totally unqualified to make a statement such as this. And BTW, it seems you feel that rural kids are better than non-rural kids. That’s kind of provincial, IMHO. </p>
<p>“I don’t think I fit in with the superficial culture.”</p>
<p>How long were you there that you feel qualified to describe its entire culture in such a manner? </p>
<p>“I felt really alienated by the exorbitant wealth and academic apathy.”</p>
<p>Are you saying there is no such wealth at Harvard? I would venture to say that both schools have about the same percentage of wealthy kids, middle-class kids, and lower-income kids. Princeton is also affiliated with Questbridge, an organization that recruits lower-income kids. Harvard is not. </p>
<p>As to the academic apathy, I wouldn’t generalize after sitting in on one lecture. You don’t achieve what Princeton grads have historically achieved if everyone there is academically apathetic. Is Michelle Obama an example of a rich, spoiled, academically apathetic Princetonian?</p>
<p>Pton grad, lay off of Arch. He was letting people know what he thought. It’s not a big deal. Plenty people have bad experiences at these things (just check the Yale board about Bulldog Days.) One person’s negative experience does not describe the entire school, and any person with half a mind who is considering Princeton will know to take Arch’s post with a grain of salt. As in, it was HIS experience, and doesn’t necessarily (or even probably) reflect what Princeton is actually like. There’s nothing wrong with tossing in a good ol’ reality check every now and then (c’mon, everyone knows that people sugarcoat their favorite of HYP to an enormous extent, myself included lol), but it’s still good to let people know that it’s not ALWAYS a fairytale for EVERYONE. it reminds people to make sure a school is the right fit for them.</p>
<p>So, Pton grad, you’ve ripped Arch to shreds. We get that. His posting history is against him, as you’ve laid every conflicting post bare for us all to see. Thank you for taking so much to validate him. Now that we know that Arch wasn’t the most diehard Princeton fan from the beginning (although he says that princeton became his #1 basically right before princeton preview… this is something we can neither prove nor disprove), everyone can still accept his experience as just another perspective. Lay off him. You’re killing him. :)</p>
<p>Arch3r: I unfortunately know what you mean. When I think about the exclusive, selective eating clubs, I feel kind of crappy about myself. In that little town, the only opportunity to socialize is Thursday/Saturday night drinking. I also don’t want to spend my Thursday and Saturday nights going out drinking to have the semblance of a social life because I’m going to college to study, not to drink myself into happiness. I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’m just not exclusive enough for the Princeton socialite scene and I’m sure I’ll be happy elsewhere, without eating clubs and without feeling inferior.</p>
<p>I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy your Princeton Preview and I’m happy that you made the decision that was correct for you, which was choosing Penn over Princeton. However, as the parent of a Penn student and a Princeton student, I can tell you that the Princeton social scene is far from exclusive and for “socialites” (where did you come up with that one?). There are bicker and non-bicker clubs so that everyone can join (and in fact over 80% of the students do and there’s also a fair amount of switching clubs). There is no more drinking at Princeton than at Penn (in fact, based on my experience I’d give the edge to Penn) and I feel that the academics at Princeton are overall much stronger than at Penn.</p>
<p>Sorry Pink, but I think you’re missing the point. Arch’s words weren’t just unbiased personal observation. They were sweeping negative generalizations accompanied by an obviously misleading statement that Princeton was his or her first choice prior to visiting-- a statement that was clearly intended to add extra shock value. Unfortunately CC has had far too much of this kind of behavior. It’s not useful to applicants to be misled in this way. </p>
<p>None of us on the Princeton board has any objection to students deciding Princeton is not right for them. Arch could simply have said that, given some rational explanation and left it at that. His post was, instead, misleading, inflammatory and full of characterizations that he or she would have been unqualified to make based on such a short visit. In short, they were clearly meant to be demeaning.</p>
<p>Arch, thank you for your apology and perhaps you can help all of us on CC maintain higher standards of discourse. I wish you the best at MIT or at Harvard, wherever you find yourself.</p>
<p>Yeah, Pton grad, his comments didn’t strike me as overly “inflammatory” at first. But upon second examination, you’re correct to say that the generalizations he made were too hasty for such a short visit.</p>
<p>Bulldog Days didn’t really live up to everyone’s expectations (the weather was miserable, so a lot of outdoor activities were cancelled), plus it was held on the last week of classes so the hosts could have been really, really busy and therefore not as accomodating to their pre-frosh. As someone who completely loves Yale, I would hate for anyone to walk away with a negative impression of it from just those three days. </p>
<p>Arch, maybe a couple days wasn’t enough to accurately ascertain much of anything about Princeton… but, it’s kinda late now, so good luck at MIT! :)</p>
<p>midatlmom-
my cousin went to Penn a few years before I went to undergrad (not at Penn). He’s now an assistant prof at Harvard Med school so I’m guessing the academics weren’t too shabby down there in Philly.</p>
<p>^i dont think she meant that Penn has bad academics… to the contrary, I’m sure she knows it is one of the world’s leading insttutions!</p>
<p>She was just saying, that since her daughters are at Penn and Princeton, she has come to realize that Princeton’s are better. Of course this varies among departments and programs… and it really is her personal opinion.</p>
<p>I believe that Penn is an excellent school and it obviously has some terrific teachers and facilities. Kids who graduate from Penn have wonderful options for careers and graduate school and I have been pleasantly surprised by the balance in the school–I don’t think that Wharton dominates on campus and I believe that there are numerous fine departments. However, in my opinion, the attention to undergraduate learning at Princeton is superior and overall, the professors at Princeton are more inspiring–there are just more amazing professors, whereas at Penn, you often have to pick your way through a number of bad choices before you find a decent professor. In addition, whereas at Princeton I feel that much attention is given to shaping a department and making sure that the course choices are both relevant and engaging, at Penn I don’t get the sense that the administration is trying as hard as it can to weed out bad professors, make sure new ones are excellent teachers and really look at the course options in a systematic way. That is just my opinion though and obviously, others might differ.</p>
<p>I’ll have to agree with Arch. Although segments of Princeton do not resemble an “elitist” culture, the atmosphere of Princeton in general seems less collaboratively intellectual and more isolating. The biggest let-down for me during the preview was that the school has so little people in it.</p>
<p>“Less collaboratively intellectual and more isolating”? And you decided this because the school has “so little people in it”?</p>
<p>Look not every school is right for every one and that’s why you visit. Some people will prefer cities, other love the outdoors, some prefer big sport schools and some prefer schools with a large undergraduate population. And people change over time and that’s why a school that is favored can turn into a school that you just don’t want to go to anymore. </p>
<p>However, I really don’t understand your point journey91. Princeton has 4900 or so students and it’s a decent sized campus, so it’s not very crowded. If you prefer a school like Penn, which always seems filled with people, I can understand that. But the fact that Princeton is more spread out than some schools and is located in a suburb doesn’t correlate with “less collaboratively intellectual”. Princeton students certainly study together and work in teams. The professors are completely available and many live in town and attend and are involved with on campus events. There are numerous interdisciplinary programs that involve teams of students and teachers. And, Princeton is one of the few schools that requires all students to write junior papers and senior theses, which rates way up there as an intellectual exercise. I’d sort of love to know on what you base your conclusion.</p>
<p>i was there and had a blast. met some great people. i care more about the people i met there than anyone im going to highschool with right now. :p</p>
<p>deciding factor for me i’ve already committed.</p>
<p>The eating club exclusivity and selectivity just serve to confirm that I don’t fit in in the socialite elitist social scene and that’s fine by me. I expected it.</p>
<p>How on earth are the eating clubs exclusive when eight are sign-ins and the school provides financial aid for them? It’s nonsensical. Plus, my host and his roommate were going independent and seemed to be doing absolutely fine. SusieBra, I don’t know what you are talking about.</p>
<p>“But when eating clubs become merely exclusive gated communities in which a few hundred members can isolate themselves from the rest of the University, the clubs no longer add to campus life but detract from it.”</p>
<p>Also, I don’t want my only social life to depend on Thursday and Saturday night drinking. I’m going to college to study, not to drink away my boredom and not to consume alcohol to try to achieve some type of superficial happiness.</p>
<p>^^^ Yeah some financial aid. I don’t regret my decision not to accept Princeton at all. It was an informed, well-researched one. Exclusive eating clubs are a huge part of Princeton, a part in which I wouldn’t be able to participate.</p>
<p>I’m on financial aid, and I don’t drink, but I’ve always found the eating clubs open for me. If I wanted to, I could go to any club I wanted on Thursday and Saturday nights because either (1) They are open for all PUID carrying students or (2) I have friends in them.</p>
<p>It is true that there’s no way I would afford the cost of, let’s say, Ivy, but students on full financial aid can afford clubs that are closer to the average, like Colonial or Tower. </p>
<p>As for me, I’m a happy member of the Brown Co-op, which I found was just the right mix of down-to-earth fun-loving people. It only costs $600/semester and the camaraderie from cooking together and eating together and plain hanging out together is hard to beat.</p>
<p>Good luck to everyone with college decisions! I’m still good friends with my first prefrosh who decided to come to Princeton, and in email contact with my second who’s taking a gap year.</p>
<p>You did read the entire editorial didn’t you? The Prince was reporting that three clubs had refused to participate in a Hunger and Homelessness Awareness week event and they were castigating those clubs for that particular action. The Prince was not bashing all clubs, nor the concept of eating clubs nor stating that Princeton was a bastion of exclusivity.</p>
<p>Once again, I respect your decision to chose Penn over Princeton and I hope that you enjoy Penn enormously. However, if you were truly confident in your decision, I don’t think you need to bash Princeton or to make statements about Princeton’s alcohol scene. Princeton students do not drink away their boredom or achieve some sort of superficial happiness by drinking, or at least not any more than students do on any other campus. You will find that at Penn, students drink as much or more than at Princeton, and that frats at Penn do not open their doors to all students. In addition, Princeton is known as a serious academic university. Students study quite a bit and they have junior papers and senior theses that add immeasurably to the intellectual challenge of the school. Your comments seems to suggest that Princeton students do not study as much as Penn students or they’re not as serious about academics or something. That is not true and I actually have never heard anyone suggest that.</p>