<p>Susie, as the above posters have noted, that is nonsense. Anyone can participate in the eating clubs, including those that don’t belong to any of them. Getting passes is easy and most students have at least one friend in each club. For those who want to join, the financial aid from the University covers virtually all of the difference between the cost of a University meal plan and the cost of meals at the eating clubs. I didn’t belong to a club but was certainly not a stranger on the Street. The same was true for many of my friends.</p>
<p>It’s simply not true that you would not have been able to participate but I get the distinct impression that you have such a low opinion of Princeton that you probably didn’t investigate that issue as thoroughly as you might have.</p>
<p>The clubs are definitely not elitist- unlike at some schools where you need to be in the know in order to find out where the party is going on any particular night, at princeton all you have to do is walk down the street if you’re looking for something to do. As a freshman (and not a particularly social one), I was able to get into all of the clubs at least once on a thurs/sat night. It only got easier to get in as a junior or senior, as my friends were in a pretty wide subset of clubs. I was in a sign-in club, but my friends were pretty spread out between sign-ins, bicker, and independents. Most of my friends were on pretty serious financial aid, and that did get some of them to choose to be independent. But I don’t think that they felt left out, as we invited them to all of the members only events at our club. Both are great schools, but I think that the princeton eating club scene actually makes everything far more inclusive than the scenes at some other schools.</p>
<p>I did read both of them. And I took out the quote that proved my point from the first one. But do especially notice the second article. </p>
<p>AND POINT OF CLARIFICATION: I FOUND OUT THAT YES, I WOULD BE ABLE TO GO TO EATING CLUBS TO DRINK ON THURSDAYS AND SATURDAYS. BUT LIVING THERE, NO, FOR THAT I’M NOT GOOD ENOUGH.</p>
<p>It’s a terrible system that should be changed. I should be able to live at the eating clubs regardless of financial aid but it just served as a real indicator for me that this was not right for me. And for that, I’m forever thankful.</p>
<p>No one other than the officers live in the eating clubs, and not even all of the officers. Most clubs have space for ~5 people-- so maybe 50 people total live in the clubs, out of ~1300 people in the class. It is a VERY VERY small minority, and doesn’t affect social life at all. It’s no big deal. My senior year I (who was in a sign in club), lived with someone in a bicker club, someone in a different sign in club, and someone who was independent. Living in the eating clubs is actually more inexpensive than living in the dorms, since the clubs subsidize the housing of the officers who live at the club (at least this was true for my club).</p>
<p>not that you haven’t made a good choice for yourself in choosing penn, both are great schools, but you should at least get your story right.</p>
<p>It confirms everything I have previously said and really makes me question the basis of this “esteemed” institution. The system needs to be changed and quickly at that.</p>
<p>Are eating clubs subsidized by the university? If so, it’s disturbing that people can be precluded from joining them on the basis of cost. If they’re not, then I see no problem.</p>
<p>yes, princeton does not fully subsidize joining clubs, they give something like $6500 to cover board for junior and senior years, the clubs cost somewhere between $7000 and $8500. If it’s important enough to you, taking out $2000 in loans over the course of 4 years really isn’t so bad, and it’s not that difficult to make that kind of money working during the school year or over the summer. They also have RA plans that are significantly cheaper (under the $6500), if you want to RA and join, or you can be an officer and get a discounted rate. There are tons of ways to make it work. A good percentage of my friends were independent, some for financial reasons, but none of them felt like they COULDN’T join an eating club if they wanted to, they just decided that for them it wasn’t worth the money. And it is not just the people on financial aid who decide to be independent, I knew a percentage of quite wealthy people who were independent as well. And now that they give 2 meals a week to ALL upperclassmen, there are plenty of opportunities to eat with all of your friends in the dining halls-- tons of upperclassmen go to the dining halls for brunch to catch up with all of their friends at various eating clubs/independent. </p>
<p>just to clarify, you don’t LIVE at an eating club, you EAT there.</p>
<p>Yes, they are university-subsidized eating club. I was nauseous, to say the least, when I learned that I would not be able to take part in the experience about which the view book spoke so highly. They should put a caveat below the discussion of eating clubs: Must be a wealthy socialite to take part.</p>
<p>So I’m glad that I found out the truth for myself but I’m still disgusted that a “progressive” university would promote such exclusivity. It’s like a 21st century caste system. I would have been crushed to have gone and then learned about this. They should be legally forced to change it, rather than being able to not only condone it but also promote it and take pride in it.</p>
<p>You have made many mistakes on this thread.</p>
<p>First and foremost, you seemed upset that you couldn’t live at the clubs. However, as others have pointed out, almost no one lives at the clubs. The only people who live in the clubs are the officers, an extremely small group of people. The clubs are not supposed to be living spaces and there is no reason to feel excluded if you can’t live in one.</p>
<p>Secondly, about two years ago, Princeton increased financial aid to cover the “eating” part of the eating club costs. As others have mentioned, the additional social fees range from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand depending on the club, but the vast majority range from $500 to $1500 in additional costs. Eating clubs are generally available for two years, so the total additional costs not covered by financial aid are $1000 to $3000. Many people on financial aid are able to cover those costs and your wealthy socialite comment is both unwarranted and inaccurate. Princeton also offers 4 year residential colleges with eating plans covered by financial aid.</p>
<p>I don’t know if you know this, but at Penn, if you want to join a sorority, there will be social fees associated with it that are not covered by financial aid, so you might find yourself “excluded” there as well. </p>
<p>Princeton offers some of the best financial aid in the country and covers most of the eating club costs. Over 80% of the student body joins the clubs and since over 50% of the student body gets financial aid, that 80% includes many many students on financial aid. The university is also going to great lengths to offer alternatives to eating clubs, including the establishment of several 4 year colleges where you live and eat. I find your comments wrong and uninformed and I’m afraid that you’re going to have issues when you find out that not everything at Penn is perfect.</p>
<p>You still persist with your misinformed assertions. It seems to me that you just ignore everything the Princeton posters write. These are people who actually go to the school. As a low income student, I have never felt excluded from the clubs. </p>
<p>As midatlmom pointed out, what is the difference between Eating Clubs social fees and Frat/Sorority social fees? </p>
<p>The Prince really doesn’t fully represent study opinions. For the sake of an argument, it leaves out the thousands of students who opt to join the eating clubs. Like most school newspapers, I feel it’s overcritical with the goal of garnering readership.</p>
<p>Greek life is not a big deal at Penn. The difference is that eating clubs are a big deal. I know they are because they fill the pages of Princeton view books. I’m saying that if everyone can’t be included, why would the Univeristy pride itself on something for the few?</p>
<p>And the Prince did not just make up a story. Journalism is sensationalism but it’s based on facts and I’m not just a gullible reader. I’m an informed one.</p>
<p>Well, if there’s one thing that can be gleaned from this discussion, it’s that SusieBra is nauseous. See [World</a> Wide Words: Nauseous versus nauseated](<a href=“Nauseous versus nauseated”>Nauseous versus nauseated) for an explanation.</p>
<p>SusieBra, there are a ton of things that most universities pride themselves on that don’t include everyone. The most salient example that comes to mind are study abroad opportunities. Would you like the justice system to interfere and either shut down study abroad programs or force schools to offer full scholarships for those unable to afford the experience?</p>
<p>I’m guessing there’s no point to this but here goes…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is not true.</p>
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</p>
<p>This is more true. It’s also true that a large majority of juniors and seniors take their meals at them and those that don’t have many many other options. They are not at all exclusive.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is not true.</p>
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</p>
<p>This is a gross distortion as almost all juniors and seniors are included as members and those that aren’t members regularly socialize at the clubs.</p>
<p>Susie, it seems to me that as a recent Penn admit you are far more interested in criticizing another school (in a very uninformed way I might add) than in celebrating your decision to attend a fine one. Your posts show that you know little about Princeton’s social scene but that you are unwilling to hear any point of view that differs with your own belligerently critical one. Why do you feel the need to behave as you do? Let me assure you, this is not the best way to represent Penn students or the institution itself.</p>
<p>I’m always surprised at the postings of Penn students on the Princeton board.</p>
<p>Susie are you a prefrosh? I bet i’ve spent more time at Penn than you. I go there very often. Your posts indicate that you know both very little about Princeton AND Penn. I can assure you that Frats/Sororities are not sideline activities at Penn.</p>
<p>also just to clear up that PRINCETON DOES NOT SUBSIDIZE THE EATING CLUBS, they are private entities that started in the early 20th century when there were only dining facilities for freshmen (commons). They all own their own land and maintain their own clubhouses. They pay the university to install PUwireless in the clubs and that’s about it. Each club has its own endowment, which varies in size. The university really has no say over what they do, which is why they can all charge different amounts. </p>
<p>I am sure that not 100% of people are happy with the eating clubs, and I’m sure that most people wish that they were less expensive, but you seem unable to listen to reason from actual princeton students who actually experience the “elistism” of the clubs. I am also sure that not 100% of people enjoy their time at penn, and I am sure that I could find at least a subset that finds the social scene “elitist” or “exclusive.”</p>
<p>Just look at posts from MomofWildChild…you will find all kinds of Penn hating. If you care to. And the drinking culture at Penn was one of her primary issues. That and the non-intellectual culture.</p>
<p>I make $2000 per year (about $38.50 a week). That makes me a wealthy socialite. </p>
<p>I’ve decided to invest my newly-earned fortune in a membership in an eating club as opposed to the regular meal plan, just like 80% of all the other Princeton upperclasspeople. We are “the few.” I know that because I am a math major and realize that 80% is a minority.</p>