I’ve come down to my final chances as Princeton and Penn. Now these two are very close, but as far as I’ve read(can’t visit,international) life is worlds apart in these two college settings. My choice won’t be based on only academics. I know Philadelphia has a lot of bars, restaurants etc. and Penn itself has an amazing social life. Please tell me about these aspects with regards to princeton.
I’ve never visited Princeton (or NJ) but a friend of mine who goes there told me that Princeton doesn’t have much in terms of restaurants/night life (it is a small town and not immediately near any major cities).
Final choices for what? ED? To round out your college apps? Just wondering.
@lvvcsf yes these are my top two choices for early decision(Scea in case of princeton). But like MITer94 said, princeton is just not appealing socially. Plus I don’t understand the concept of eating clubs in place of frats. I don’t want to live those 4 years of my life like that, having to visit New York or Philadelphia to have a good time. But this is just based on what people have told me, so correct me if I’m wrong, because princeton is one of the best none the less.
Are you assuming PTon is filled with bored people on the weekends while everyone else abandons the place for NYC or Philly? You’re rather mistaken about the amount of activity that happens on campus…
Speaking up for someone who adds a lot to these forums, no, he did not say that
I only said what my friend told me - perhaps you might get better responses by asking in the Princeton subforum, if you haven’t already done so.
Princeton is a charming small town, close to major corporate headquarters and research facilities as well as an hour from NYC, so it is also a community that many who work in NYC choose to live in. You will find national stores, including Brooks Bros, J Crew etc., as well as the quirky small proprietor shop – a shop which sells, as best as I recall, olives, olive oil and other savories, as well as a marvelously surprising ice cream shop (“the Bent Spoon”) which sells curious as well as familiar flavors of ice cream. The food scene is quite good, with farm to table restaurants etc., as well as pizza places etc. Culturally, McCarter theater is an excellent smaller theater, where shows that will go onto NYC might open. The Princeton Art Museum has an excellent collection. There is lots going on culturally, this is a world class university, not some remote place. Princeton has a central core campus, and then spills out into the surrounding area. It feels like Cambridge, MA – tree-lined streets, charming (but unbelievably expensive) homes, with lots going on. While Cambridge is about 20 minutes from Boston on the T (subway), Princeton is an hour from Manhattan. Different strokes for different folks.
The P’ton eating clubs offer a lot of variety – for the first two years, students eat in the dining halls. The last two years, students join either “open” or “bicker” eating clubs, the “bicker” ones are often compared to Greek life, and range from more traditional to not so much. We have known athletes and intellectuals who have found their home in their eating club. As I have heard, Greek life is fairly significant at U Penn, so they are not entirely different environments in that regard though obviously, U Penn is in West Philly and Princeton is in Princeton.
Personally, I would have said that the most significant difference between the two schools is that U Penn has a strong pre-professional vibe, whereas Princeton has less of one.
I was in a similar position spring of my senior year when I was choosing between Penn and Princeton, among other universities. I had spent a summer at princeton (which is admittedly very different from spending an actual semester somewhere) so I had some understanding of what living in Princeton NJ was like. I then spent a weekend at Penn and also went to the admitted students weekends for both and felt that Penn was a better fit.
Social life at Penn is a solid mix between Extracurriculars/campus life, university city (the area in which Penn is located), Philly, and greek life. Only about 27% of Penn undergrads join greek life so it’s actually not the biggest source of social life for Penn students. Most students find friends and go to parties thrown by their friends in their clubs and student organizations. That being said, University City has tons of awesome bars (for when you’re 21 of course… 
) at which you can have a really good time: 1- Smokey Joe’s (smokes) for the Penn Socialite, 2- Blarney for the under 21… 3- City Tap House (Tap House) for the Junior/Senior who likes to keep it classy 4- I’ve heard the former Drinker’s West is becoming super popular, 5- Fiume for the hipster-esque, and many many others that can satisfy your craving for night life close to campus. Otherwise, Philly is full of clubs and bars for you to try. Philly is also a huge BYOB city which means you can bring your own alcohol to a restaurant to have a good time. Penn’s clubs and student organizations will often host BYOBs downtown for a relaxing night of wine and dinner or to pregame the main event of the night which could be anything from a party back on campus or a Downtown (a party downtown) thrown by one of Penn’s clubs or Fraternities. If Greek life is your scene, you are totally welcome to either join or simply go to their parties. The nice thing about Penn Greek life is that it rarely feels overly exclusive. The parties are usually open to all undergrads and you never have to pay to get in. So as a freshman during NSO, a lot of kids will go to fraternity parties because they are an easy way to socialize even if you aren’t in one. Many students will also move off campus and have fraternity-style parties at their houses but that are organized by non-greeks. And of course, if you are looking for a quiet night at world famous museums like the PMA or the Barnes Collection, that’s always an option too. Lots of students would be interested in having dinner on campus and then heading downtown for a concert or just going back to the College Houses to relax and watch netflix. Penn’s robust campus life, full of clubs/student organizations and genuinely fun and social students, provides a nice balance to the city just beyond Penn’s campus which means you can always craft the experience that best suits your interests. And while many of the things i mentioned here involve alcohol, if you don’t drink, that’s not a problem either! Many students do not drink and still go out to bars and parties just because it’s fine to be social. A lot of students also opt for alcohol free weekends to do things that are more relaxing. It’s really a choose-your-own adventure.
Penn is the Social Ivy not because it’s solely characterized by wild parties and drunken nights, but because there is a HUGE diversity of social options on and off campus that provide students of all backgrounds and social proclivities something to do on both a tuesday and a saturday night if you know what I mean.
And a final note on pre-professionalism: Penn does have a culture that can feel pre-professional at times though that is sometimes a good thing in that it keeps kids focused on their goals for the future. That being said, because Penn has 3 pre professional undergrad schools (engineering, Wharton, and Nursing), I have found that the students attracted to the College of Arts and Sciences are even more passionately dedicated to the liberal arts and sciences. Those are students who don’t worry about the lure of the professions because they always know that a more technical education is an option for them. The one university policy allows students to take classes in any of Penn’s undergraduate and most of Penn’s graduate schools regardless of their homeschool affiliation. It also allows students to take on University minors in Wharton, Engineering, and Nursing, as well as dual degrees between the schools or a double major between Engineering and the College. Thus the students in the College are usually at the College because they actively don’t feel the compulsion to obsess over their careers. So while Penn does an amazing job of placing ALL of its students in highly coveted jobs and grad schools, the atmosphere is only as pre-professional as you want it to be as a student.
Just some food for thought. Good luck with the college app process. Both Penn and Princeton are wonderful schools and I think most students are happy regardless of where they end up!
I agree with Midwestmomofboys. Being in New Jersey, you are very close to a lot of places and both the campus and town are beautiful. In my opinion choosing between these schools on the basis of location is not a very good idea
@PennCAS2014 thanks a lot man!
@Wje9164be yes, I know it might not be the best way to choose college, but I’ll be spending 4 years of my life there, and I’m already from a suburban area. I want to be able to go out at nights just walking/cycling around the city (ofcourse when academics are taken care of). I personally love Philadelphia( only from what I have seen on tv and internet ) but princeton as a school would be a better choice for me( as I want to do aerospace engineering and I understand that upenn doesn’t provide an aerospace major in SEAS)
Last question, how is Penn’s mech egg program?
@theglowingone I actually don’t know that much about Penn’s specific mechanical engineering program. Here is a link to their website: http://www.me.upenn.edu/prospective-students/index.php
I will say that Penngineering undergrads all seem to do pretty well with career and grad school placement. 2014 Graduates of the major seem to be working for a variety of organizations from the US Navy to Amazon and Blackrock (http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/SEAS_CPSurvey_2014.pdf). And the salary range for graduates of the major was $54,000 ‐ $150,000 with an average of 69,330. Finally, it looks like graduates of the major who chose to pursue more education went on to grad school at Columbia, Penn and Berkeley.
@Much2learn do you have any insight into the mechanical engineering program at Penn?
“too isolated and subarban-y?” I think it depends on what the student is looking for.
When deciding on programs that were a good fit for her, we found the sample schedules to be very helpful. Remember that they are for a student who has no AP credits and wants to finish in 4 years, so to the extent that you have AP credit, or test out of something, you would have more flexibility in your schedule.
http://www.me.upenn.edu/current-students/undergraduates/sample-schedule.php
I looked for the one for Princeton but did not see one.
Honestly, Princeton is an outstanding school. When D1 was applying to schools, I encouraged her to take a serious look at it. We visited, and it is a beautiful campus, but she thought that it had a status-conscious, entitled vibe that she felt uncomfortable with. The eating clubs definitely contributed to this. It is also suburban as opposed to Penn’s urban campus. She likes the city, so that was a plus for Penn from her perspective, but it depends on the student. I would spend some time at both and see where you feel at home. Four years is a long time and you have to be where you want to be.
ED vs. SCEA
Penn’s ED rate is about 24% and Princeton’s SCEA rate is about 18%, so your odds are better at Penn. However, with SCEA you can still apply regular to other schools and change your mind if you are not sure.
Both schools will provide a challenging program, amazing EC opportunities, internships, and job opportunities. Starting salaries are similar, and placement rates are high. Visit both schools, and go to the one where you feel like you fit best. You will have a good experience and always believe you made the right decision.
I have had children attend both schools. The one at Penn was unhappy for the first year or so, because of the fact that social life seemed to revolve around the Greek system, something my child wasn’t interested in. Things got increasingly better in junior and senior year, mainly I think because my child explored Philly much more during that period.
My two children at Princeton had bouts of both happiness and unhappiness, which related much more to personal issues than the school itself. However, I would say that there was never a lack of things to do and places to go in Princeton and both of them absolutely have loved the University and the opportunities it offers. My daughter who graduated Princeton goes back regularly for Reunions and to see friends and feels incredibly connected to the school, whereas my child who graduated Penn went back once and said it was lame.
I guess I feel that social happiness is a bit of a wild card - it depends on your roommates, your room, whether you join a frat or an eating club you’re happy with etc. What I will say is that as a parent, there was no question that Princeton academically provided a much better experience. Penn introductory classes seemed to be incredibly hit or miss and the university didn’t seem to have leadership that really focused on academics in a thoughtful and consistent manner. The quality of teacher/student interaction was not as strong at Penn - at Princeton, it’s hard not to make personal connections with your professors - plus the advising was much worse at Penn.
The student body at Princeton is probably less pre-professional than at Penn. I also think that Wharton takes up a lot of oxygen at Penn - there are students who probably wanted to get into Wharton who didn’t and the success of Wharton definitely makes students more inclined to think about getting finance or business jobs.
As for the student body, there are entitled students at both universities, but I don’t think that Princeton students are particularly entitled. In fact, in the case of my children, I always felt that Penn students were a little more wealthy - there seemed to be so many kids who came from tremendously wealthy and successful families.
“too isolated and subarban-y?” Sort of - NJ is not known for public transportation. Isolated? Not really, not like rural would be.
Penn was not that Greek-y when I was there. Yes, the Greek presence is obvious, but it was and is about 25% of the undergrads at most, and there are strong ethnic/racial bent fraternities and sororities which attract a very high percentage of those in the group.
I will tell you one thing - pretty much if you go to one, you will be inculcated to hate the other.
My son loved the spreading of the Penn campus, in terms of restaurants and shop. Living in NJ we have been to and through the Princeton campus, and it is totally different.
I don’t know anyone who had serious mental health issues at Penn (yes, there are recent articles about suicides), but I do personally know several people who had serious mental health issues at Princeton.
All in all, my understanding is that for engineers and scientists in particular, Penn is much more applications-based, and Princeton is much more theoretical. I suggest you research the departments you are targeting, and see which fits you better.
(and I want to note, to say Penn is an “urban campus” is not really fair, it is not like Temple in that Penn has a real campus and students do not feel at all like they are “in a city” except for the resources available close by - never had an issue with crime or malingerers - the campus feels like a college campus)
Rhandco - If I were inclined to debate the issue, obviously Penn has had a recent spate of suicides http://chronicle.com/article/After-6-Suicides-U-of/228095/, but I think that suggesting that either school is worse for mental health issues is misleading (and frankly, I’m not sure why you raised the issue at all). Anxiety is an increasing problem in many universities and colleges are grappling with how to deal with these issues. Princeton is no better or worse than similarly situated schools - I’m sure it could do more about these issues just like Penn could.
In terms of academics, the OP is interested in mechanical and aerospace engineering. Princeton’s department is highly ranked - I don’t know if Penn has much of an aerospace program at all to be honest.
And finally, Penn is definitely urban. You know you’re in a city. I happen to think it’s a beautiful urban campus with tons of vitality, but it is not that set apart from Philly. Moreover, since a very large percentage of students live off campus, they are constantly aware of the city (which is not necessarily a bad thing, and I’m not saying that crime is rampant or anything like that, but I don’t see how you could go to Penn and not be aware that you live in Philly).
@Much2learn @midatlmom @rhandco thanks a lot!!
I like mechanical engineering, and aerospace too( haven’t had much exposure to aerospace yet). And i have researched that aerospace is not available at penn? I would love to do mechanical too. I am definitely not going to take up the theoretical majors ( life sciences etc.). And i also love the vibe of the city. Ive heard that Princeton course load sometimes becomes too much to handle? Like people don’t go off campus for a very long stretch of time.
Plus, i have relatives who used to live in Philly and tell me its an amazing city. Will i , as a penn SEAS student, be able to take out time to just visit and explore the city once a week?
Pretty sure you can easily take the train from princeton to nyc.
@theglowingone “Plus, i have relatives who used to live in Philly and tell me its an amazing city. Will i be, as a penn SEAS student, be able to take out time to just visit and explore the city once a week?”
Penn SEAS is a challenging environment. It is definitely a lot of work, and not for everyone. The students who thrive in this environment tend to prioritize, manage their time well, like what they study, have long attention spans, and are willing to work very hard.
In order to sustain that level of effort over a multi-year period, it is important to have some fun, blow off some steam, socialize, and hit the reset button from time to time.
DD1 does this by doing things with her group friends, and she is also active in a couple of clubs and a sorority.
She is a very work-hard, play-hard person, and needs some social time to be a her best and manage a hectic schedule.
Occasionally midterms or projects cause her to miss a week, but most weeks she goes out a couple of times, and also plans opportunities to meet people for coffee or a meal.
One of the thing she like to do the most is to explore Philly. Often planning with a friend or group to visit a place she hasn’t been before. If you have time it is easy to walk downtown from Penn, or Uber is good if you don’t.
As a graduate of Penn, I can assure you that the education is in no way inferior to those of our friends at any other Ivies. Student and faculty interaction is outstanding at Penn. A much higher percentage of faculty are full time teachers at Penn than at most other top schools which is a driving force behind the close bonds students form with their professors and advisors (http://college.usatoday.com/2015/09/08/best-us-college-2016-yale-penn/). The low student to faculty ratio of 6:1 also helps to facilitate close faculty-student relationships. At any university, some classes will be better than others. And of course if you look at a university at the department level, some may have moderately stronger departments than others depending on faculty and department structure. Though, on the whole, undergraduate educations at the top schools tend to be pretty similar.
Wharton definitely doesn’t 'take up a lot of the oxygen at Penn. From the outside, many who were never students at Penn might be under the false impression that Wharton has a disproportionate influence on the university, but that’s not what the average student experience is like at all (there are exceptions to every rule, of course). The rest of us had plenty of oxygen to enjoy, and then some 
Since we all live together in the College Houses, eat together in the dining halls, socialize together, share the same career services/recruitment opportunities, join the same clubs/extracurriculars, and take classes together (the one university policy ensures that Penn undergrads can take classes in any of Penn’s 4 undergraduate schools and many graduate and professional schools, regardless of their homeschools), most students pay little attention to which undergrad school is their homeschool. Also, as a side note, no one at Penn can be a student who wanted to go to Wharton but didn’t get in because you only apply to one of Penn’s four undergraduate schools. If you aren’t admitted to that school, you don’t get to attend a ‘second choice’ within the university. So no one is in the College because they didn’t get into Wharton- it was just a choice that each student made about where his or her intellectual interests would be best served.
A substantial portion of Penn students do live ‘off campus’ but most of them will choose to live in the beautiful Victorian homes just a block or two from campus. Penn’s beautiful, contiguous, 300 acre campus keeps students constantly engaged around a central and compact roughly 12 block urban oasis on which most students will spend the majority of their time, in class and at clubs. It rarely feels like you are in a major city when you’re on campus and yet you have access to America’s fifth largest city only a short walk from the heart of College Green.
The Ivies do differ in social life, however. It’s not that one has a better social life than another, it’s that they are all distinct from one another. My best friend went to Princeton and she wasn’t to pleased with the eating clubs or lack of night life options in suburban New Jersey. She also felt ‘bickering’ was a little demeaning- though it paid off for her as she did get the club she wanted! She did love Princeton’s quiet atmosphere and the somewhat bucolic feel it can engender depending on where you are on campus. The place is like a perfectly manicured garden, no doubt about it. It all depends on what you’re looking for.
And at the end of the day, graduates of both universities go on to pretty similar careers and grad schools. Looking at the post graduate stats from only Penn’s College of Arts and Sciences and comparing them to Princeton’s (so a roughly equal sample size studying largely similar subjects) you can see that the schools have nearly identical outcomes. (http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/2013CASFinalReport.pdf) (https://careerservices.princeton.edu/sites/career/files/Annual%20Report%202012-2013_FINAL_0.pdf). It’s not a perfect comparison because a lot of Penn’s STEM students obviously self select into the Engineering school and many kids interested in Wall Street self select into Wharton, though it’s a pretty solid comparison on the whole.
Top Grad Schools-
For Penn grads: For Princeton grads:
Harvard (9) Harvard (12)
NYU (11) NYU (7)
Princeton (5) Princeton (12)
Penn (43) Penn (5)
Stanford (5) Stanford (14)
Columbia (25) Columbia (not listed)
MIT (not listed) MIT (9)
Oxford (3) Oxford (6)
Cambridge (6) Cambridge (6)
Top Areas of Employment:
For Penn Grads (60% employed full time): For Princeton Grads (50.3% employed full time):
Financial Services (18%) Financial Services (12.2%)
Education (14%) Education (3.6)
Technology + (8%) Professional Scientific and Technology services (12.3%)
Government (3%) Public Administration (0.6%)
Manufacturing (2%) Manufacturing (1.8%)
Just some more food for thought. College is really what you make of it. If you don’t take advantage of what’s afforded to you, it’s easy to miss out anywhere. Go where you’ll be happy.