Hi, there are only old-ish threads on this comparison. I’m asking in the P forum I guess because I have a bias for my DS in that direction…but would anyone like to opine on issues/questions to consider for a student lucky enough to have this choice to make?
I would add that in his case, the cultures of BOTH schools are very appealing, in spite of being different, so I don’t think he’ll be able to choose based on that elusive idea of “fit” when he goes to CPW and PP. I mean, he was drooling over descriptions of MIT CPW activities like “life size chess” but also super excited about the Classics resources at Princeton.
P will cost us more but for the purposes of this discussion, let’s say it’s doable. M is almost in our backyard, with the pros and cons of that which probably balance each other out.
Specific questions that I have are about employability, grad school admissions, research/job opportunities on campus (he is in STEM), and finding one’s social place if one is very friendly and excited to hang out with new people, but not remotely into the “partying” culture in terms of alcohol or frats/exclusivity. (Is it socially awkward to have to work while in college, at either place?)
This feels like asking how many tigers and beavers can dance on the head of a life-size-chess pin.
Your son knows MIT well. IIRC, he has done PRIMES, and you are an alum. It’s a question of picking the environment that he knows well and which is in his backyard, vs. picking something different. I’m personally a fan of the latter in general. I grew up in the Boston area but went to Stanford partly because I wanted a different experience and a fresh environment, and that was definitely an added educational factor.
Honestly, of all the schools your son’s been accepted to, I’d probably choose Harvard, but between Princeton and MIT, it’s hard to say. I’m sure you’re aware Princeton is very undergrad-focused while MIT is less so. I’m fairly certain there aren’t frats at Princeton, but there are eating clubs, whereas frat life is somewhat prevalent at MIT. With regards to drinking culture, it’s probably about the same, maybe a bit more prevalent at Princeton. For any STEM major, both Princeton and MIT are amazing, and I really don’t know if an employer would see a degree from one any different from a degree from the other. Whatever he chooses, don’t look back, and know he has 4 amazing years ahead of him.
There are frats at Princeton, though they are not officially recognized/sanctioned. Students cannot join until fall of sophomore year. They really do not have a huge impact on the social life, especially compared to the eating clubs.
I think you already know which college I’d recommend : )
Congratulations on your son’s admission to some really great schools!
A friend of my son’s was in a similar position of choosing between MIT and Princeton and she ended up at Princeton. Neither she nor my son are into the partying culture and there is more than enough to do to keep busy and have fun without venturing onto the Street (eating club area) at all if you so choose. Both of them are engineers and now accepted to high level grad schools so it is certainly doable. In fact, most of their friends are going on to at least their Masters, and some into fully funded PhD programs. My son has already had job offers (not at the high Wall Street starting level but very good none the less) through some of his Princeton contacts. His friend had a job waiting at a firm she interned for over several summers.
You said your son is in STEM but didn’t indicate which field. Engineering at Princeton tends to be highly theoretical but they absolutely teach their students how to think and problem solve. My son was shocked at how easy a related course was that he took at a nearby university so theory certainly does not mean easy.
Has your son looked at the integrated science program at all? It’s extremely challenging and would certainly stretch those students who need an extra challenge.
If as a STEM major your son is interested in the classics as well I think he will find Princeton a better fit than MIT. This was certainly part of some of my son’s friend’s decision making…she liked the wide variety of opportunity to learn from top scholars in a range of fields at Princeton.
“Specific questions that I have are about employability, grad school admissions, research/job opportunities on campus (he is in STEM), and finding one’s social place if one is very friendly and excited to hang out with new people, but not remotely into the “partying” culture in terms of alcohol or frats/exclusivity. (Is it socially awkward to have to work while in college, at either place?)”
I had to make the choice a few years back (damn I’m old). I chose MIT. Most of those considerations were things that were high on my priority list also, so here’s my input:
Employability: I think MIT wins over princeton, simply because tech is becoming more and more important. Technology will boom in the 21st century the same way physics experiened a boom in the early 1900's.
grad school admissions: No specifics, but all my friends who went academic and were serious students got into top schools in their field.
research/job opportunities on campus (he is in STEM): UROP's (research for undergrads @ MIT) are awesome. If your son is at all interested in EECS, there's now a super UROP. Basically a UROP, but more cool and better paid. It's pretty much as good as it gets.
Social: I'd say MIT is probably a more diverse place socially than Princeton simply because different cultures collect around different living spaces (froshes get to pick and develop their housing culture), and each diverge. You can pretty much find anything. I was never into the party scene @ MIT and had loads of fun and made many very good friends.
How is the entrepreneurial/innovation culture at Princeton? I love how MIT is amazing in technology/STEM, but I also like the more diverse student body that you can find at Princeton.
Also, how do the research opportunities compare? I know that Princeton focuses more on their undergrads, but they seem to have fewer labs (especially in the physical sciences). On the other hand, at MIT, there are many labs but also many grad students.
I am interested in CS, chemical engineering, and physics as of now.
Thank you so much @renaissancedad - yes I think Yale is out of the running because they offered so much less financial aid and I can’t see them being better choices for DS than the others at this point. I totally see your point about the familiarity.
Thank you very much @gormar099 - that’s interesting; why Harvard per se? And thank you for the advice not to look back because that is a worry of mine
@Cantiger - thank you very much; I have read a lot of your answers on P threads and they are very insightful. My DS is leaning toward ChemE but also is slightly interested in ORFE after someone told him that’s the mathy-est one. He did look at the Integrated Science sequence but I think it’s not a great match for him because he would like to do the big humanities sequence instead and pick/choose his STEM courses in line with his APs in those areas.
@tellmecombo - thank you also! You are saying a bunch of things I know being an extraordinarily happy alum of MIT. Oh, it is so hard, as a mom hoping for the “best” decision.
I’d choose Harvard just because of personal, subjective preference. There is something about the history behind it, knowing that you’re on a campus that has been the pinnacle of education for nearly 400 years (although it’s probably the same with Princeton), it’s kind of hard for me to put it in words. I also love the house system as well as Harvard’s architecture (that being said, Princeton’s architecture is hard to beat). But, as a STEM major, I would only choose Harvard for Science or Math. I think MIT’s CS would blow Harvard’s out of the water and MIT and Princeton’s engineering is also significantly better.
But back on topic, I think it sounds like Princeton is a better fit for him. The only way I think MIT would be a better choice is if he is 100% set on Engineering, just because I think MIT Engineering is unparalleled. I know ORFE has Engineering in the name, but my understanding was always that it was more like a Finance degree than an Engineering degree (please correct me if I’m wrong here). I think he’ll fit in very well at Princeton, since the Math department there is amazing (ranked 3rd in the world on USNWR if that means anything to you). Also, I think humanities have a much greater emphasis at Princeton than at MIT. Just looking at the class of 2016, this link http://tech.mit.edu/V133/N48/majors.html says only 7 students enrolled in a degree in a humanity, arts, or social science other than Econ @ MIT. Has your son given an indication as to a preference? Please let us know what he chooses!
@gormar099 - thank you for all those details!! I’m always so surprised and pleased about how internet strangers help each other. So yes, I can see the appeal of Harvard because of all that.
I think yes, my DS is set on engineering as his big focus (and major) - but he does like Classics. And Mandarin, and other kinds of subjects. One of the things he has loved most about HS (possibly second to his mathy stuff) is the deep discussions they get into when he’s in History or his sociology-type units in humanities. I’m sure they do that also at MIT, but possibly more at Princeton.
He’s going to CPW and to PP and possibly this decision might be down to the wire. (He will also go to Visitas but cannot make Bulldog Days due to Passover. One of his YES-W friends just committed to MIT, he found out tonight.) It’s such a bummer that a person can only choose one college, in many ways!! And I know he is incredibly lucky and privileged to have this choice, so please don’t think we are taking anything for granted at all.
@fretfulmother - I’m sure as an MIT alum you already know this, but our S said that he was told over and over by the students that CPW was not at all representative of the real life of a student actually attending MIT. He was told that tests were not allowed during that time period so the atmosphere would be more relaxed. He said it was quite a production and he had a wonderful time. He also said he had the best food there of any of his visits (at the MIT frats)! Even if you have to choose one college, at least you will enjoy getting a ‘taste’ of each one and will have many well-deserved, happy memories. Good luck with your decision making!
Oh, and our S '13 did not choose MIT or an Ivy in the end, but he did go for a top-notch academic school on the other coast. He had non-STEM interests as well, which pushed MIT down his list. I know he would say to go for Princeton under the circumstances. He thought peers that were hyper-focused on STEM would be potentially better for grad school. He definitely made the right decision for him. His younger brother, S '16, is in the process of making a similar choice. But they both have friends that could not imagine turning down an acceptance to MIT. Which environment can your S not imagine giving a pass? And to be honest, none of our kids would have considered going to a college in their own back yard. They had too many other new experiences on their wish list, including location and peers.
@critter that is very helpful! I didn’t know that about tests not being allowed during CPW. When I went, there was a very different visit; it was just for women and minorities and did not have a zillion activities by every possible affinity group. You are right about a taste of each college!
In terms of “which environment can your S not imagine giving a pass?” - that is the hard one. (All of them??)
I am very grateful for all the help here. I was thinking last night that part of this is that in my heart I loved MIT so much that it kind of represents the ne plus ultra of college in my life. And let’s be honest, this point of view gets some support in real life and from CC. Part of this process is the cutting of the umbilical cord enough for DS to be doing his own falling in love, even if we are very similar in certain ways.
In particular, there are two differences between me and him that are likely game-changers here. First, he adores studying and discussing history whereas I not only was thrilled not to have to take it in college, I also did a special program in high school to qualify for one semester less of social studies. Second, he is a lot more mature personally (and two years older) than I was going to college, so he is just more aware of world issues, current events, social justice…and really engaged in these.
I have a feeling that all of this is pushing toward P.
As a Princeton alumna and the mother of two Princetonians, I think that the exams after holiday issue recedes well into the background if you matriculate at Princeton - not an issue at all.
Congratulations to the OP and her son on some wonderful choices. In terms of an interest in classics, Princeton has an amazing department and the professors are incredibly strong (joshua katz is just wonderful!). I also have a lot of knowledge about the history department- once again, professors are strong and caring and inspire the students. Your son can’t go wrong, but all I can say is that Princeton has an extraordinary commitment to undergraduate education and the teaching in the history and classic departments is first-rate.
My now-senior BSE son said there is no way he could have prepared for exams before Christmas with all the rest of his work load. He generally took a week or so off and then did some light study for the remainder of the holidays, coming in ready for reading week and feeling refreshed. Having a week off (or more depending on your exam schedule) at the end of January was great and he was always ready to tackle second semester in February.
@fretfulmother - Your son sounds a bit like mine, who was a strong STEM student but whose interests went well beyond the sciences, for example having enjoyed all the history APs in HS. When he applied to Princeton he listed his possible majors as physics and philosophy; ultimately, he believes the topics are inexorably interwoven.
One attribute of Princeton that hasn’t been mentioned is the writing seminar which is required for all freshmen. I thought DS was a very good writer coming out of HS, but the writing seminar was definitely beneficial for him.
As for the odd winter break schedule, my son liked it that way. He’d come home for a relaxing holiday with a little light studying knowing he’d go deep into finals prep during “reading period”.
