Princeton vs. Stanford

I was accepted to both Princeton and Stanford RD and am currently torn between these two options. As of now, I plan to study music performance and cognitive science, but I want to try other things (CS, economics, linguistics, etc.) as well.

I live 20 mins from Stanford and have visited the campus. I plan to attend admit weekend (28th-29th). I’ve never been to Princeton but I will be going next week for the admitted students’ day.

Here is my understanding/concerns for each school. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Stanford: I did a trial lesson with a music professor and was told that there are not enough faculty so taking private lessons won’t be likely. The music facility is also quite dated. I heard that professors are more focused on graduate students/work. I grew up in Silicon Valley so I’m a bit tired of start-up culture.

Princeton: Heard that there is grade deflation and the academic environment is overly competitive whereas Stanford is more collaborative. Also, elitist given that it’s an Ivy.

Any input is appreciated - especially about academic culture and music performance programs.

Thank you all in advance!

First, congratulations on having this choice!

Princeton has a reputation for being good for undergrads. Look up the music performance certificate and the study abroad or double degree program at the Royal College of Music in London. Private lessons are offered- proximity to NYC is an advantage too.

Stanford is of course a top school too.

I would lean toward Princeton unless distance from home us an issue. I don’t think elitism is a problem. Many efforts toward inclusivity of all kinds (Including socioeconomic) have been made at most top schools over the years.

That’s my two cents, and others may have the same or differing views!

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If true, do you really care? Remember we are not talking about the same person getting a 2.5 vs a 3.9. The difference is more likely in the 0.1-0.2 range. This normally only impacts students who are looking at med or law school.

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Since you live in NorCal, go away to college. (And a few tenths of grade points will only matter to Med or Law schools.)

Based on ipeds, Princeton appears to have the same number of music majors, but a few more grad students in music; that is something you can explore.

btw: Stanford loves to tout its chill image, but kids their work just as hard as they do at other similar schools.

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Both of these colleges are competitive…and many view Stanford and Princeton with equal “elite” value.

The reality is…they are both excellent universities.

Princeton has mostly undergrads so that is the focus, while Stanford has masters and professional programs as well as undergrads.

I personally like the Princeton campus better…I think it’s prettier and not as spread out.

But frankly, I think these are both great options. Maybe start looking at things outside of academics…like weather, and ease of travel for school vacations, and activities…etc.

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My family is like your opposite – live close to Princeton, though my wife grew up near Stanford and all her family still lives very near it (walked the campus too many times to remember). So we’re more familiar with Princeton but fairly familiar with Stanford (my wife’s brother and her father also went there).

You can’t go wrong either way of course. I do know the music program at Princeton decently well – my HS son did some DE courses there in music performance (jazz). He loved it. They have a large music faculty and also supplement it with accomplished visiting faculty. The classes were small, particularly the music performance ones, and not too hard to get into, even for our HS student who was below freshman in the pecking order. Princeton U has a great, architecturally interesting building dedicated to music and many incredible places to perform in. I would recommend it. Our son told us he had heard Stanford was playing catch-up on building up their music department, but was actively bringing on some great faculty.

It’s interesting you say the rep is that Princeton is more competitive and less collaborative. Everyone around here has exactly the opposite impression – that Stanford is the more “sweaty” competitive of the two. No idea if rep either is true, or if both are. I know and my kids have known many people who went to PU and they all are/werr happy, without exception. My daughter had a close friend go to Stanford who had been one of those effortless tippy top students in HS and ended up so stressed at Stanford she took a year off before resuming with a changed major. Not implying that experience is the norm.

I have heard elsewhere that Princeton’s grading has gotten less intense recently but don’t have imperial evidence of that. This article says the average PU GPA is 3.49 which seems decent and it’s very close to half of the other Ivys.

Princeton is a great college town. Both campuses are beautiful.

Good luck with your win-win decision.

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"Here is my understanding/concerns for each school. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Stanford: I did a trial lesson with a music professor and was told that there are not enough faculty so taking private lessons won’t be likely. The music facility is also quite dated. I heard that professors are more focused on graduate students/work. I grew up in Silicon Valley so I’m a bit tired of start-up culture."

My son (Princeton '22) was a music major and on pre-med track, so I’m more familiar with Princeton’s music programs and resources than Stanford’s. If you either major in Music or in a music certificate program, your private lessons with a performance faculty will be fully subsidized by the university. If you’re not a Music major or in a music certificate program but do participate in an ensemble group, then the university subsidize 50% of the lesson fees. If you’re receiving a FA (most students do), then the financial aid offers the remaining 50% of the fees, i.e., 100% subsidized. My son was a member of the Princeton University Orchestra (PUO) all four years, and he had no issues securing private lessons with a faculty. I haven’t heard of anyone being turned away from a studio due to a lack of faculty or space for private lessons. Because there are many students with pre-college Juilliard background, some students choose to continue their private lessons in NYC, and such fees are also subsidized by the university, i.e., private lessons don’t have to be with a university faculty.

If you’re interested in participating in the orchestra (Princeton has two), the upper-level orchestra, PUO, tours Europe every other year, and all costs are fully funded by the university. Other ensemble groups also tour domestically and internationally, as well, again fully funded. As a member of one of the a capella groups and another ensemble group, my son toured both domestically and internationally. These tours take place during the winter break or spring break, so you do not miss classes. Another music resource that Princeton offers is a joint-degree program with the Royal College of Music in London. It’s a flexible program where you can either study for a semester at the conservatory or complete an accelerated Masters Degree upon graduating from Princeton.

Just a few years ago, Princeton built the new, state-of-the art Lewis Center for the Arts complex, which serves as the home of PUO among other arts programs. When you visit the campus for the Preview Day, be sure to stop by the complex. Along with a couple dozen sound proofed practice rooms, each equipped with a Steinway piano, in the complex, there are music rooms in residential colleges, as well.

Princeton: Heard that there is grade deflation and the academic environment is overly competitive whereas Stanford is more collaborative. Also, elitist given that it’s an Ivy.”

Ever since Princeton has done away with the grade deflation in 2014, the average GPA has been inching up close to its peers. Whether at Princeton or Stanford, you’ll have to work hard to earn good grades, not any harder at one or the other. My son wasn’t an academic star in high school, but he did fine even for pre-med required courses. His academic experience at Princeton was very much collaborative and cutthroat is a foreign concept on campus, at least in his experience. Being “elitist” is an outsider’s perception based on false reputation; you’d never feel it as a student.

When we visited the campus – our first time, too – on Preview Day, my son made his decision then and there. It was love at first sight. It’s a beautiful campus with a long and distinct tradition and where even the word “campus” first originated from. Good luck with your decision making; it’s a happy choice that, ultimately, cannot go wrong whichever direction it takes you.

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