Princeton vs Yale

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>(Cross-posted in Yale forum) So I know you guys are tired of these threads, but they are actually immensely helpful. </p>

<p>I was lucky enough to have been admitted to both of these schools, and now have the pleasure of deciding between them. They were my top two choices going into the process and coming out, so it's a particularly tough job.</p>

<p>Here's my analysis so far:</p>

<p>At Yale, I'd probably major in either Applied Mathematics or Economics & Mathematics, and would consider picking up a second major in Ethics, Politics, & Economics. At Princeton, I'd major in Operations Research Financial Engineering, and hopefully get a certificate in Woody Woo. </p>

<p>The environment at the two schools are also slightly different. While both have collegiate gothic architecture and are breathtakingly beautiful, Princeton's in Princeton and Yale is in New Haven. While this means Princeton is in a more secluded, safe area than crime-ridden New Haven, it also means that Yale is set in a more realistic setting. Yale also happens to lean farther left than Princeton, which has a reputation of being more snotty. That being said, I come from an area that is demographically very similar to that of Princeton's, and it wouldn't bother me, it just probably wouldn't have the same effect on me as Yale would.</p>

<p>I've done my research. I can tell you about Yale's residential colleges and Princeton's eating clubs (Well, of course. I'm on CC. How can I not know?). I can tell you that Princeton's mathie departments are generally stronger than those at Yale. I can tell you about Princeton's lack of professional schools and thus subsequent undergraduate focus, and about how Yale's professional schools provide additional resources. </p>

<p>What I'm looking for is... ambiance. Things that aren't neccessarily facts and figures. Anecdotes are welcome. Thoughts are welcome. Connotations are welcome. Rorshack- let's not get that far off track. </p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>Pianista, rest assured that Princeton undergraduates are no more or less “snotty” than undergraduates at any of its peers. Think of it this way. Many students are accepted to both schools. (I personally had this choice as well.) In a private conversation, I have heard from the Princeton administration that Princeton and Yale split their common admits almost exactly down the middle, half choosing Princeton and the other half choosing Yale. Does it make sense that all of the “snotty” ones would choose Princeton and the “nice” ones would go to Yale (or some other school)? Think of the students who are accepted to only one or the other (a much larger group). Does it make sense that the Princeton admissions office would be more likely to accept snotty students while Yale and other schools would reject them? The answer is obviously ‘no’.</p>

<p>In fact, you’ll find no difference at all in terms of personal friendliness among the schools in this peer group (and outside this peer group as well). At every school you’ll find a broad mix of people (just as you found at your high school). Some you’ll befriend instantly. Others you’ll keep at a distance. The stereotypes of all these schools have little basis in reality. My other alma mater, Harvard, where I attended law school and where I was also accepted as an undergraduate, is regularly tagged as being full of overly ambitious back-biting competitive students. It’s no more true of Harvard than of Princeton or Yale or … you name the school.</p>

<p>Be very careful about believing any of these stereotypes. A personal visit will usually dispel them but even on a visit you’re likely to meet only a very small cross-section of the undergraduate population. There are some here on CC who will regularly push the stereotypes to try to steer students away from a school they consider a competitor to their own. There are also posters both on CC and in the comments sections of student newspapers who misrepresent themselves as having Princeton affiliations in order to bash the school and damage its reputation.</p>

<p>Princeton is not a perfect place. You’ll find no school that is. On the other hand, the enthusiasm for Princeton displayed by its graduates (as shown in alumni giving rates, numbers of graduates returning for reunions, etc.) should tell you something about our experiences.</p>

<p>You ask about ambiance. My comments regarding my first experiences with Princeton are here:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/432489-all-things-i-learned-princeton-these-most-important.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/432489-all-things-i-learned-princeton-these-most-important.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There is also a misconception about the political climate on the two campuses. There is almost no difference in political persuasion. Almost all universities in the northeast have liberal undergraduate student bodies. At Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Penn about 80% of undergraduates supported Obama. It was slightly higher at Brown at around 86%.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061947257-post101.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061947257-post101.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Princeton undergraduates have staged demonstrations against conservative politicians and causes that have attracted national attention in recent years. The same is true at Yale.</p>

<p>All of that having been said, there certainly are differences between the institutions. Princeton has a higher percentage of students interested in the physical sciences, engineering and math. Yale has a higher percentage interested in the humanities. They have about equal numbers interested in the life sciences. Their locations are very different and that is a lifestyle choice for you to make. I would say that you are mistaken if you believe there are no opportunities in the Princeton area to do “real world” social service work for the disadvantaged. Some of that goes on right in Princeton but the bulk of it occurs in Trenton which is about 15 minutes away from the campus and is similar to New Haven in terms of poverty and crime. Some of that work is organized by the Student Volunteers Council.</p>

<p>[Princeton</a> University | Student Volunteers Council | Welcome](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/svc/index.shtml]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/svc/index.shtml)</p>

<p>The discussion of the eating clubs at Princeton goes on endlessly and you’ll find numerous threads on the subject. I didn’t belong to any of them but had friends at virtually all of them. If you listen to the comments of most Princeton students you’ll find little evidence for the clubs fostering some kind of elitist attitude on campus. You’ll hear that mostly from people who haven’t gone to Princeton and are pushing stereotypes for their own reasons.</p>

<p>Each student’s experience will be different. Mine was fantastic at Princeton and that is why I’ve been a participant on these boards. You’ll find some who hated the place. You’ll find those at Yale and every other school as well. If you are a serious student who thinks for himself/herself enjoys living in a place of great physical beauty and deep historical roots and likes to have fun…you’ll have a great time at Princeton.</p>

<p>If there are any specific questions you want to ask, please PM me.</p>

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<p>On point article in the Daily Princetonian a couple years back on the age old top of p vs. y. A well-known Princeton prof reflects on some time spent visiting yale. I think it captures things well.</p>

<p>[Tiger</a>? Bulldog? Tiger? - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2006/10/23/16303/]Tiger”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2006/10/23/16303/)</p>

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<p>Doesn’t Yale usually win a cross-admit battle with Princeton? It’s not by a huge margin though.</p>

<p>I can’t decide.</p>

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<p>Actually, I addressed this exact question in an earlier “comparison” thread. You’ll find my comments here:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061685173-post19.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061685173-post19.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The short answer to your question is that the actual numbers are almost never released by these universities. Stanford has been a little more open and has provided enough information to show that it splits evenly with Yale but loses to both Princeton and Harvard. I’m sure these statistics vary from year to year but I can tell you that I have heard it from an unimpeachable source, a Princeton administrator who was in a position to know, that Harvard is the only school in the country to which Princeton loses more cross-admits than it wins. Against all others it either splits evenly (as the administrator noted was the case with Yale) or takes more than it loses. I don’t know that this means much for any one applicant deciding among different schools but there it is.</p>

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<p>Well
Princeton is not at the same level as Yale. According to revealed preference ranking
Yale is 2nd Princeton is 6th. Yale admit rate is ~7% and princeton is ~10%.
Yale is clear winner</p>

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<p>Thats right folks, the key to picking a school is a single year’s acceptance rate (which is a meaningless stat anyway) or an incredibly flawed cross-admit study from a decade ago! (And even if it were valid, clearly every aspiring EE should pick Harvard over MIT?)</p>

<p>For starters, jomjom, how about you stop making being such absurdly anti-Princeton statements. Selectively choosing metrics in which Princeton does worse is an absurd battle because any pro Princeton person can come right back with a bunch of rankings that Princeton does very well in.</p>

<p>That being said, based on your interests its not as though there is a clear winner between Princeton and Yale from an academic standpoint. Princeton has a much better math dept than Yale but since you don’t seem to be interested in majoring in math there it shouldn’t make that big of a difference. </p>

<p>When I was choosing colleges, I came down to 3, HYP. H was immediately thrown out because its not the best UG experience and I figured I could always go there for grad school. That left YP, which, along with Stanford, in my opinion provide the finest UG experiences anywhere. So do keep in mind that there is no real wrong decision in this debate.</p>

<p>What killed Yale for me was the fact that I really didn’t know what I wanted to do in college. I came in as an Astro major and ended up as an Econ major with a CS cert. While it would’ve been possible to follow the same path at Yale, it simply does not have the same across the board strength that Princeton does. </p>

<p>I was also hugely turned off by New Haven and while I found the campuses of Yale and Princeton to both be equally beautiful, the town of Princeton is just leagues nicer than New Haven. I absolutely loved being able to take bike rides through the town in the spring, reading in the battlefield and doing karaoke at Ivy Inn and while the town of Princeton is certainly no NYC, its a wonderful environment to have your campus set in.</p>

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<p>I honestly don’t understand what is wrong with jomjom. Does he have some emotional problems that motivate him to target Princeton all the time? Was he rejected? Does he feel threatened by Princeton in some way??</p>

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<p>I think jomjom just doesn’t like orange.</p>

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<p>jomjom is a 'tard</p>

<p>Is UPenn part of Wharton ? </p>

<hr>

<p>Is Wharton separate school ? </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/685156-upenn-part-wharton.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/685156-upenn-part-wharton.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>No school has been as highly ranked academically as Princeton over the past 10 years.
Consider the following:</p>

<ol>
<li>US News has ranked Princeton #1, eight of the past 10 years.</li>
<li>Last year, Forbes Magazine ranked Princeton the nation’s #1 school in a comprehensive ranking which included both universities and colleges.</li>
<li>The Atlantic Monthly in its last national college ranking placed Princeton ahead of both Yale and Harvard.</li>
<li>“Untangling the Ivy League” (2008) gave Princeton an academic rating one full notch above both Harvard and Yale.</li>
</ol>

<p>Even CC’s own promoted college rating profile ranks Princeton ahead of both academically.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/...k_summary.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/...k_summary.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<hr>

<p>(excerpt from princeton-harvard thread) </p>

<p>As for which school is best, here is what the National College Guides say (pay close attention to #3).</p>

<p>Interestingly enough, found the following in the CC Yale archives:</p>

<p>“Unanimous conclusion reached by National College Guide Experts” </p>

<p>Here are the CURRENT positions of those National College Guides making declarations about which college/university is best in America. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>“Untangling the Ivy League” (2008)- Gives Princeton its highest academic rating. One full notch above Yale and Harvard and certainly above all others in the Ivy League. </p></li>
<li><p>The Princeton Review (unaffiliated with Princeton University) - In its “College Campus Visit Guide” (7th edition) it refers to Princeton as, “truly gorgeous, offering the best undergraduate education in the country”. </p></li>
<li><p>“Insider’s Guide to the Colleges” (2008) - (An annual college guide publication written by Yale’s Daily News Staff Editors). The publication lists Princeton as the top school for undergraduate attention/focus. Left out of the running was Yale itself. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Amazon.com: The Insider’s Guide to the Colleges, 2008: Students on Campus Tell You What You Really Want to Know, 34th Edition: Yale Daily News Staff: Books </p>

<ol>
<li>“All American Colleges” (2008) - In ranking “Top Schools for Conservatives, Old-Fashioned Liberals, and People of Faith” the college guide book named Princeton as its choice school among the Ivies as well as other schools. </li>
</ol>

<p>Intercollegiate Studies Institute - ISI Books - All-American Colleges </p>

<ol>
<li>College ******* (2008) - College P****** publishes individual college guides for each of the country’s more well known schools. College ******* gives Princeton the highest academic rating in the Ivy League and nation, Both Harvard and Yale are ranked below. The ranking is based largely on the opinions of those attending the schools being ranked. </li>
</ol>

<p><a href="http://www..com/find/g…tion=Academics%5B/url%5D">http://www..com/find/g…tion=Academics</a> </p>

<ol>
<li>“Choosing the Right College” 2008 - 2009 edition (an ISI Guide) </li>
</ol>

<p>Subtitle: The Whole Truth about America’s Top Schools </p>

<p>This newest college guide, touted as the nation’ most comprehensive, promotes Princeton as the nation’s best undergraduate university and “most exclusive club” among universities. Further referring to Princeton as “the undergraduate’s Ivy” being “almost always rated the number one school in America”. </p>

<p>Princeton is described as being “as close to the intellectual ideal for undergraduates as one can find in a top research university”. </p>

<p>Amazon.com: Choosing the Right College: The Whole Truth About America’s 100 Top Schools: Intercollegiate Studies Institute, Jeffrey O. Nelson, Gregory Wolfe, William J. Bennett: Your Store</p>

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<p>The impression I have is much like Grafton’s- Yale students are in overdrive and take themselves very seriously. My daughter’s best friend is a Yalie and knows three people who have let her know they want to be President. Of the country. These folks take extra care at parties not to be seen doing drugs and make sure they have their one drink an hour.
At Princeton, a commonplace is that Princeton students don’t want to change the world- they want to run it. For all the ambition, though, there is lightheartedness. There is more time penciled in for foolish theme parties. It’s been said that Princeton is more competitive socially than academically.
Strange that they are as different as they are given very similar student bodies coming in.</p>

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<p>Aside from Princeton’s superior academic rank (see my previous post), it can also be argued that Princeton (among HYP) has happier students, offers a better quality of life and is simply a more physically attractive place.</p>

<p>[Top</a> 10 Most Beautiful Campuses - MSN Encarta](<a href=“http://spotlight.encarta.msn.com/features/encnet_departments_college_default_article_10schoolsbeautifulcollegecampuses08.html]Top”>http://spotlight.encarta.msn.com/features/encnet_departments_college_default_article_10schoolsbeautifulcollegecampuses08.html)</p>

<p><a href=“http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Departments/College/?article=Top10HappiestStudents09[/url]”>http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Departments/College/?article=Top10HappiestStudents09&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>As an addendum to the post above referencing here is support for Princeton’s “Quality of Life”. Note it’s top five national ranking in that category.</p>

<p>(excerpt from MSN)</p>

<p>“QUALITY OF LIFE”</p>

<p>“Top 10 Colleges with the Best Quality of Life” </p>

<p>A college education isn’t just about the lessons learned in the classroom. The quality of life at school–from campus location, to the quality of food, to the friendliness of students–will determine whether the four years you spend as an undergraduate are memorable or miserably unforgettable. For the Best 366 Colleges: 2008 Edition, The Princeton Review surveyed 120,000 college students to find out how they rated the overall quality of life at their schools. The following ten schools came out on top. </p>

<ol>
<li>Macalester College (Saint Paul, Minnesota) </li>
</ol>

<p>Mac students often cite the Twin Cities as one of their main reasons for choosing the college. The area, they agree, is “very cool, with lots of opportunities for culture.” Mac is located in Saint Paul, in “a great neighborhood for the bored college student, with lots of neat shops and restaurants and when we get tired of Grand Avenue, we can explore the rest of the Twin Cities with their stellar music scene and great sporting events.” </p>

<ol>
<li>Bowdoin College (Brunswick, Maine) </li>
</ol>

<p>Extracurriculars are part of the constant learning experience at Bowdoin College; students here “are always doing at least one if not ten things at a time.” Physical activity is part of the mix and many students participate in Outing Club events, hiking, whitewater kayaking, and rafting at nearby parks. “It seems like almost everyone is on a sports team, so during the week most people find a release there.” Students tell us that “on the weekends, there is a lot of partying (and with that comes a lot of alcohol),” but “it’s not excessive.” </p>

<ol>
<li>Whitman College (Walla Walla, Washington) </li>
</ol>

<p>Some students feel the town is “Whitman’s biggest drawback,” but many observe that “being in such a small town forces the campus life to be amazing.” By most accounts, campus life is just that. One student reports, “There is always a ridiculous amount of things going on campus. Sometimes the trouble is choosing what you are going to do or having time to do all of the things you are interested in. There are tons of clubs (and some really odd ones, like the Ender’s Game Alliance and the Flight Club) to get involved in and lots of musical performances, plays, parties, speakers, etc.” </p>

<ol>
<li>Princeton University (Princeton, New Jersey) </li>
</ol>

<p>Eating clubs, a phenomenon unique to Princeton, “are the center of social life” at this “country-club-like school.” One student explains how they work: “During daytime, the clubhouses serve as a place for upperclassmen to dine. (You don’t have to join one because they are a bit costly.)” Many hail the clubs “as great places to party because there is always somewhere to fit in. Because everyone parties on one street it is impossible to go out and not see someone you know.” Another adds, “The best part is that even though Princeton is a small town, there is a train station on campus that takes you to Philly or New York in 45 minutes.”</p>

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<p>I’m picking yale over princeton. That should be reason enough for you to go to new haven!</p>

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<p>Yes Yes Yes</p>

<p>Princeton is only 6th choice if one gets multiple offers.</p>

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<p>JomJom,
You keep referring to the Revealed Preference rankings. In terms of full disclosure, perhaps you should inform readers the research for the 3,200 student survey was done some 13 years ago and that the principal author of the study was on the Harvard payroll at the time.
Further, it might be a good idea to let people know that both CP and PR (both unbiased) have conducted surveys of 100,000+ current students and have found quite different opinions. The results of those surveys in the CC ranking for example:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/683063-cc-ranking-rating-princeton-academics-plus-much-much-more.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/683063-cc-ranking-rating-princeton-academics-plus-much-much-more.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also, you may want to read “Untangling the Ivy League” (2008) referenced in an earlier post. Based on a comprehensive survey of Ivy League schools and their students, Princeton received the Ivy League’s highest academic rating.</p>

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<p>LOL!!! deter1 vs jomjom. The Princeton Orgasmer vs the Princeton Hater. let’s see them slug it out!</p>

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<p>The Effective Admit rate of Princeton.</p>

<p>Harvard Yale Stanford have undergrad class size much bigger than Princeton and still maintains ~7% admit rate. </p>

<p>Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth class sizes are also bigger than Princeton and still maintains
~10 % admit rate. </p>

<p>Princeton on the other hand has the smallest UG size with ~10% admit rate. The effective admit rate of Princeton would be, if UG entering class size becoms ~1500-1600, about 15-20%. Princeton admit rate is at the level of Cornell and UPenn.</p>

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<p>Admit rates don’t tell you the vigor of the school. Nor does prestige. If you somehow think that Princeton is not a selective and vigorous school, then you are a 'tard as previously stated.</p>