<p>After years of anecdotal evidence indicating that the grade deflation policy harmed Princeton students graduate school chances, a Harvard and UC Berkeley study shows that is true.</p>
<p>"University President Christopher Eisgruber ’83 said “lots of concerns” have been raised by a field study released this summer showing graduate schools do not consider an undergraduate program’s grading policy when evaluating applicants."</p>
<p>"The study, published by UC Berkeley and Harvard Business School researchers in PLOS ONE in July, argues that students who come from schools with tougher grading standards are less likely to earn admission to choice graduate schools. The researchers had admission professionals evaluate undergraduates for admission to graduate schools and presented two main pieces of information: the student’s GPA and their school’s GPA distribution. The researchers found that admissions professionals displayed “correspondence bias,” or the downplaying of the context in which a task is performed.</p>
<p>“Instead of picking people who are most above average, you pick people from the most advantageous situations,” Samuel Swift, the lead author and a postdoctoral researcher at Berkeley, said. “The participants failed to take that situational information into consideration, so they ended up picking people with the highest GPA regardless of the situation they were coming from,” he explained."</p>
<p>It remains to be seen whether any substantive changes will really occur. However, as more and more hiring decisions and graduate admissions use numerical and statistical cut-offs to determine which applications pass the first round of computer screening, I think it may be a step in the right direction if Princeton recognizes that a letter explaining their grading policies does not help their students pass such a mechanical filter.</p>
<p>The average GPA of a student accepted into Harvard or Yale’s medical school is 3.87. I doubt either of these top programs want to say their average GPA is now lower than the others Because they decided to except some more Princeton kids. That would not make for good press. Its that simple </p>
<p>Many brilliant kids I know who are premed Opted not to attend Princeton 100% due to its harmful grade deflation.</p>
<p>The average GPA of a student accepted into Harvard or Yale’s medical school is 3.87. I doubt either of these top programs want to Change course and tout their average GPA is now lower than the others …Because they decided to accept except more Princeton kids. That would not make for good press. Its that simple. </p>
<p>Many brilliant kids I know who are premed Opted not to attend Princeton 100% due to its harmful grade deflation. </p>
<p>With Equally brilliant and hard-working kids at all three schools, the approximate average GPA out of Princeton at 3.2 versus a 3.6 at Harvard or Yale Is Nothing but Harmful to Princeton students. In the long run for graduate school and careers, in the short run for internships and promoting a nastier competitive environment amongst the students during their four years at Princeton. </p>
<p>It’s time for Princeton to quickly move away from this policy and come in line with their peers. Forget saving face and just do the right thing ASAP. Everybody already knows it was the wrong thing And no peers followed suit</p>
<p>Ptons admissions success to the top preferred medical schools in this country has been harmed, And cherry picking data that says overall medical school admissions rates are still relatively comparable Ignores the factor Of to which caliber medical schools and whether or not they are the candidates first choice</p>
<p>Do you even go here? One thing I’m surprised grade deflation hasn’t done is actually create a stigmatizing/cutthroat environment, especially amongst pre-meds here. I’ve found it to be the complete opposite, with people very willing to study, share notes, do assignments together, etc., despite fighting to beat the curve on exams and do well in important classes.</p>
<p>The premed classes here, MOL 214 (Bio II), EEB 211 (Bio I), PHY 101+102 (Physics), CHM 303+304(OrgoI+II), CHM 201+202(GenChem), MOL 345 (Biochem), etc. are all curved to about 30-40% A’s and A-'s on exams, and usually equilibrate to like 35~% A’s and A-'s in the end. That curve is about the same at any school for science classes/pre-med weed out classes. Grade deflation isn’t addressing anything that would hurt a premed’s chances of getting in.</p>
<p>Rather, grade deflation affects the rampant grade inflation in less curve-based courses and more discussion/paper ones in the humanities and social sciences, where it’s traditionally subjectively evaluated and not determined on a bell curve with standard deviations like in STEM courses.</p>
<p>So I think while overall GPAs might be affected given pre-meds have a whole slew of classes they need to take, I don’t really think that grade deflation drastically affects pre-med class grade distributions. Granted, Yale, Harvard, or Brown might give out like total A’s somewhere like 5% or so higher than Princeton in STEM classes… but I don’t think most universities have that much grade inflation relative to Princeton in pre-med classes you would take.</p>
<p>The kicker is that the students in these classes are generally pre-selected, meaning that the average Princeton student in a pre-med class is likely to be higher performing than the average student at another university that doesn’t pre-select students like Princeton with the same admissions criteria that we do. Thus, you’re competing against stronger students. But then again what top university doesn’t have this effect in their classes?</p>
<p>There have been numerous articles of late about Yale’s grading policies which indicate that 65% of a class gets an A or A-. Versus Princetons 35%. Taking that and the disparity of average graduating GPAs, how could it not be negatively affecting the Princeton students opportunities to graduate and medical school when they have to compete against Their higher GPA top Ivy peers?</p>
<p>Most people who go to Princeton are aware of Yale’s inflated grading policies. My understanding is that Yale is currently reviewing its grading system in light of the fact that they are giving too many A’s. It seems grading is and forever will be a sore spot in the lives of college students everywhere. </p>
<p>@PrincetonHappy, decillion is quite correct that the study environment at Princeton is surprisingly collaborative given the potentially harsh competitive environment that could potentially arise from grade deflation. This is not to say there are likely some who are unwilling to work with and help others, but in general this is not the case. </p>
<p>At the outset it seems reasonable to assume that grade deflation is a factor in med school admissions but as decillion pointed out above, grade deflation really doesn’t impact STEM concentrators in the way you would think other than in perhaps some of their elective courses. </p>
<p>I am in favor of the administration’s review of grade deflation because of the possible psychological impact on talented candidates where it may cause loss of cross-admits to HYSM. I would not be surprised to see some modifications to their policy with a new president at Nassau. If changes were already being considered, this would be the prime time to make them.</p>
<p>My daughter is a sophomore in high school who is interested in Math and Science. She is not sure about pre-med or engineering at this point so I am exploring both. </p>
<p>To say the least, I am not in east or west coast and people who don’t live in the coasts know these schools are great but don’t know their students have low GPA’s due to tough grading systems. Before I read these threads, if I saw a Princeton graduate with a 3.2 GPA I would think this is the lowest tier of Princeton students and may be less qualified than even a 3.6 state school student for medical school. </p>
<p>In my opinion, even without further reviewing, the system should be changed!</p>
<p>@FindMoreInfo a Princeton graduate with a 3.2 IS the lower/lowest tier.</p>
<p>What the above posters don’t realize is that Princeton still has grade INFLATION relative to a lot of other schools. It has just been restricted to the B range. If you do your work in a class and don’t screw up then the lowest grade you’ll get is a B.</p>
<p>The 5th quintile of grades at Princeton is apparently around 3.0 which is really high if you want a normal distribution on a 4.0 scale (would appreciate if someone found a source I don’t have time atm). Take a look at the median grades at Berkeley or something. Getting 1st quintile at Princeton requires a pretty high GPA. Around 3.7 or so will get you into any grad/professional school you want. That said, the negative stigma of something called grade deflation may hurt Princeton’s yield and I oppose its continued implementation (in its current form).</p>
<p>“Getting 1st quintile at Princeton requires a pretty high GPA. Around 3.7 or so will get you into any grad/professional school you want.”</p>
<p>The problem is: there are only the 1st quintile getting 3.7, all others may be denied graduate schools or professional schools due to their lower GPA. It is quite obviously a disadvantage for students who could have earned a 4.0 in a state school but got 3.3/3.4 at Princeton. If Princeton missed the opportunity to change the system, the consequences may not only be losing cross-admits but also losing applicants.</p>
<p>“My understanding is that Yale is currently reviewing its grading system in light of the fact that they are giving too many A’s.”</p>
<p>I hope Yale won’t change it - While Yale is good at producing political leaders, it is possible that Yale’s fair grading system give students confidence plus more room/time to participate in activities and practice leadership skills in college. (I said ‘fair’ because top school students proved themselves to be the bests to get in these schools and if they work hard in college there is no reason they should not get good grades.)</p>
<p>As a Yale STEM major, I can say the grade distribution in STEM classes isn’t much different to Princeton’s (if at all). The major inflation is in certain humanities departments and in languages… but for people applying to grad school in the sciences, I don’t think your major GPA is changed all that much by going to Yale, Harvard or Princeton, and your major GPA is what matters in this case.</p>