Problem is worse, and at my wits end...need some serious advice

<p>My advice?</p>

<p>A person who blames you for their pot smoking habits is not a person whose lifestyle I would fund.</p>

<p>Aside regarding your husband: Many people have suggested you talk to your H so both are on same page. Good advice. However, you do not need to share your home with a drug addict, regardless of what your H thinks. You have the right to choose to live in a drug free home as an adult woman.</p>

<p>My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family</p>

<p>Bigtrees, Mr. Compassion as usual.</p>

<p>My thoughts are with you, WOM. Hang in there. We know you’re doing a great job in a tough situation.</p>

<p>Good morning…thanks all. I managed to get some rest so woke up with at least half a clear head. Going to meet back up therapist. And will be speaking on phone later with this interventionist to see what he has to say as well (later this afternoon) Re my husband, I know everyone is very well meaning, I alluded to the the fact that things were a little heated over here when we spoke last night but didn’t get into heavy details. He is quite sad, and his uncle is not doing well at all. He will stay probably until end of the week, he has a full plate and I am using my gut instinct on how to handle this situation here. I know you are well meaning here, but trust me I know I am doing the right thing. I probably come across sounding fragile and like a nervous wreck, but underneath I am very strong and resilient person…I can handle this for another 4-5 days. Thanks though for your concern.</p>

<p>Saying my son should be out of my house right now, sounds like the right thing, of course there are many hours of the day I feel this way too, but when you factor in that this is a kid who is dealing with depression and social anxiety, it is not a recipe for someone who should be thrown out on the streets left to fend for himself; he is not in a good and healthy state of mind. Frankly, I am not sure I could trust that he would know how to take care of himself and after all he is my son and there is a certain obligation.</p>

<p>Right now my biggest obligation is to see that he gets well, body, mind and soul. In my heart I feel that he needs to go away to some kind of treatment center, now its a matter of finding the right place. Since I know nothing about them, this is where the experts will have to come in. So we will see what this guy has to say today.</p>

<p>Regarding this whole therapy business, I am very unsettled about the kinds of feedback and direction that the therapy has gone thus far. While I understand in my extremely limited knowledge of how therapy works, that you start going backwards…in this case (a crisis situation) is going back to when he was 10 and talking about how he was able to quit baseball really relevant? How they have concluded that by my waiting up when he was a new driver at 12 at night for him to come home meant I worried more than other parents? How I loved and cared for my kids TOO MUCH? I feel like I won’t even be able to look at this therapist in the face when she returns…it feels like a slap in the face. Am I being unreasonable? This is my first encounter with therapy, I am a “newbie” so someone please tell me is this par for the course or does this sound totally out of whack? I mean with a family in crisis shouldn’t we be addressing the crisis and not attacking the mom who took care of her kids “too much”? I would think the focus would be the kid who is smoking, lying and stealing. </p>

<p>I am just angry, confused, sad and feel betrayed plus I have been thrust into a world I don’t understand and am totally unfamiliar with. My daughter is leaving today for a three day trip with her class and my son is in California interviewing for a summer internship so this is going to give me a 2 day window to hopefully get a lot done without having to have kids have to live through what has already been a new and difficult way of living. Will keep you posted on how I make out today.</p>

<p>Is there any way to find another therapist? Your son may like this therapist, since responsibility is deflected from him. In our experience, I have never heard of a therapist who blames the mom in this way. I suspect that some of these opinions may be coming from your son, and the therapist is doing some active listening, meaning not arguing the point, but if the therapist is actively coming up with ways to blame you, that is grossly inappropriate.</p>

<p>It is perfectly normal to stay up until your kids are home, by the way.</p>

<p>I think a more positive way to think of this might be that your son feels very close and connected to you, because you have done a great job raising him, provide a sense of safety and security, and love. This therapist should know that separation issues can be the hardest for kids whose connections with a parent have been most positive and close.</p>

<p>Here’s a story: my son did not visit home a lot during college, and after the first two years or so, he was quite argumentative, even mean to me, when he did come home. He was very critical of me, and talked about how his relationship with his family “was broken.” HIs girlfriend kept telling him that what he was experiencing was normal, during the transition from home to independence, but he experienced it as terrible loss, and even seemed angry at me about it.</p>

<p>In his last year, he had his wisdom teeth removed. I was called in while he was still under anesthesia, because he had asked for me. I found my son sobbing on the bed. He grabbed my head and pulled it down to his chest, saying “I love you so much. you have done so much for me, I don’t know why I am so awful to you, I love you…etc.” When he came to, he did not remember this, but that anesthesia is used as truth serum.</p>

<p>A good therapist will help both of you understand that some of these troubles come from the difficulties of separation for some sensitive kids who actually have been raised with loving parenting. I personally believe that a lot of the binge drinking and drugs going on on campuses, as well as some of the hooking up, are masking separation issues and alienation kids feel after leaving home abruptly. There must be something to soothe, and pot certainly fits the bill. Some kids react with self-sabotage as well, so that they have to go home.</p>

<p>My instinct would be to let your son be at home again, in a face-saving way. Treat him as an adult, not the kid he was, and let him get used to that function while he is still home. The threat of separation would make his lying worse, I would think. I think that increased feelings of safety would help, but not a blank check.</p>

<p>Give him as much autonomy in the solution as you can, too. I don’t think strict conditions will give him self-respect. Tell him you have decided to trust him, that you have a lot of respect for who he really is inside, and that you want to support him but not enable him. These things can be talked about explicitly.</p>

<p>Maybe school should wait and he could work, or work and do a course or two. He should decide what to do and have a plan, whatever it is.</p>

<p>Finally, find out if there are any mental health issues underlying any of this, that could be medicated. Do not use a therapist for this. Seek a good psychiatrist. Depression and social anxiety can be treated with meds, and support groups can help too. Sometimes these things are just physiological deficiencies in the brain (serotonin). Blame is not relevant, blame of you or of him. </p>

<p>This therapist sounds badly trained and counter-productive. Your son is over 18 and can manipulate the sessions as he pleases, with no reality check from you to the therapist. However, the real point is that a therapist who supports his views is not helping him.</p>

<p>By the way, my son has now been out of college for 2 years, working at a great job across the country from his family. We get along great, and he is doing fine.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Years ago a member of my immediate family was a heroin addict. This person was 19 years old and attending college. Then one day he went to a local department store and stole a sweater and was caught. He gave the arresting officer a different name and that is the point that changed his life.</p>

<p>He must have realized that he was in deep trouble at that point, and he told his family what had happened, and that he had a serious drug addiction. He went through withdrawal in the house which lasted almost a week and a half. His parents had already contacted a rehab center and he was immediatly sent. Then his court hearing with the department store had come up and they called a name. He responded by informing the court that he had given false information. The department store dropped the charges and now he had felony pergury charges to face. He was taken into custody and brought to a jail. At his new trial for perjury, the rehab center appealed to the judge to show leniency so that he could have a chance at life as a clean law abiding citizen.</p>

<p>Through the grace of that judge he was released from prison to the custody of the drug treatment facility where he spent 18 months learning how to live a drug free life. Today this family member is one of the most remarkable men I have ever known. He came out of rehab and with the help of his parents he relocated far from the family home but still within a driving distance. They loaned him the money to open a business and within one year he paid back every penny. Today he is married with two children of his own. He is a remarkable parent and an amazing human being. He is also very successful as a businessman with several business’. The road was long and difficult but the result was nothing short of remarkable.</p>

<p>I would suggest that you try and find a drug treatment facility that will take marijuana users. The program is useless if it is not a long lasting program. We have seen many short term 30 day or 90 day programs and the results are often short lasting. The type of programs that really change lives are the ones that seperate the person from their environment and family. They need to be reajusted if that makes any sense, and that takes time.</p>

<p>The reason that pot smokers have trouble getting into these programs is because pot is seen differently than hard core drugs. It sounds like your son has had it very easy in light of the circumstances for which he left school to begin with. If you are interested in any information please feel free to PM me.</p>

<p>Please don’t lose faith that your son will join the real world again. It will take your tough love and help to get him there. He really needs to know how much you love him as well as how much you won’t live with drug behavior. You need to seek help in how to deal with this from people who have experience. I would NOT recommend a regular therapist. They are just not equipped to deal with drug abuse.</p>

<p>I was happy to see your last post…we cross posted. If I could send you hugs through ciberspace I would. Please know that your son will be in my prayers. He has good parents that are behind him. It is the kids that have the support who do well.</p>

<p>ps Just noticed that your son has tried antidepressants. Perhaps, as you say, he has not been taking them (up to him, legally, and you can emphasize that) or it is not the right med approach for him.</p>

<p>I think that pot addiction is very, very different from the very physiological addictions to heroin or alcohol (withdrawal from the latter can actually kill you, and withdrawal from heroin sure does make people sick).</p>

<p>I had one friend in the early 70’s who smoked pretty much around the clock, and even when we went cross country skiing one day, I can still remember him lighting up almost immediately, on the trail.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, I do think that excessive pot smoking does not always mean “addiction” in the strict sense of the word, but an effort to escape and suppress feelings that seem unbearable. Certainly behavioral approaches can cut down on the habit part of this situation, but getting at the deeper issues might also help. Involvement with hard core drug programs and rehab may make things much, much worse. Believe me, I know this from family experience.</p>

<p>Don’t pathologize too much, or talk too much about drug addiction. Try to deal with the transition issues, because I would bet anything that underneath, your son is very scared.</p>

<p>wipedoutmom-
The blame game is a predictable part of the addict’s reaction to attempts to hold him accountable. There will probably be more and it will probably get worse.</p>

<p>I stayed up until my son got home when he was in high school. I even required that he tell me where he was.
I “allowed” him to quit baseball and basketball.
I loved and love him beyond all reason.</p>

<p>So, we are both terrible parents, right? </p>

<p>Don’t fall for this or whatever manipulation comes next. These are terribly hurtful statements; they are used to deflect blame and attention and to distract you from the actual problem. Try to remember that this is part of the pathology; try very hard to not take them seriously or personally. Your son needs to hear from you that this is HIS problem, that HE needs to do the work to fix it and that you will support HIS efforts to do so.</p>

<p>

Sorry, IMO this is entirely the wrong attitude to take. Granted, there is not physical withdrawal from pot like heroin, but it carries it’s own particular risks (including cancer from smoking). Aside from that, when a person lies and steals to continue a habit, and cannot easily quit, it is an addiction. Besides this, when a son is lying and you know little about what goes on when he is away, how do you know exactly what drugs or substances they are using or abusing.</p>

<p>Everyone has stories about people who smoked pot constantly and seemed to do fine. There are also millions of functioning alcoholics and I know heroin addicts who manage to function as long as they can keep maintenance dose. Deal with all the issues, but avoiding the drug abuse is completely wrong.</p>

<p>WOW, you are not to blame. At all. You have done a heroic job. He doesn’t know what he is saying right now. It is hard not to take it personally, but try not to. </p>

<p>Bigtrees, that wasn’t helpful.</p>

<p>I wanted to make sure I wasn’t coming across as harsh myself. As a long recovering alcoholic/addict from a family of alcoholics, and with many such acquaintances, I hear what WOM is saying, and from what I’ve read I think she is handling this just about as good as can be expected. Like everyone says, all of this is very complicated and mysterious - it’s really nobody’s fault. But it sure is a pain in the neck to deal with.</p>

<p>And I also always sort of had the opinion that weed was sort of benign, it was one of the few things I didn’t really care all that much for. But I do know my share of people who do nothing but smoke weed, and when I say that I mean nothing. They basically live in their folks basements at 35 and try to scrounge up money for dope. So it can be a major problem. When it has already caused ramifications in one’s life, and one tries to cover it up, it is probably at least part of the problem.</p>

<p>WOM - It sounds like I’m not the only one who has you on my heart. As parents, we all make mistakes in rearing our kids, but you are not responsible for his bad choices. It is the easy (and at this point for him, obvious) choice to blame you and not blame himself. {{{HUGS}}}
Glad you have a plan for today. I hope you can find a friend - not just your therapist - to talk to. You need a good shoulder to cry on. Please keep us posted. All the best!</p>

<p>I’m pretty convinced, based on your sons inability to take responsibility for himself and his kneejerk blaming of you for his problems, not to mention the fact that he has been stealing to get drugs, that your son is probably involved in an addiction. Others may disagree, which is fine. I also don’t see why it would be presented as either he is depressed OR he has an addiction issue. These two things are so intertwined they are commonly found in the same place. fwiw.</p>

<p>More importantly, though, you are having the typical reactions that someone has when they are dealing with an addict… “Could I have done something differently? Am I crazy? Is this really MY fault?” etc…</p>

<p>There is a horribly titled book, “Co-Dependent No More” which I would recommend for you to read. It’s easy to read even if you are feeling the fear and anxiety which usually accompanies these type of situations.</p>

<p>One thing she says in that book is, “It is not possible to simultaneously set a boundary with someone and have them be happy with you.” Your son isn’t going to be happy with you, right now, no matter what you do. However, it is a good idea for you to try to stay focused on what you can do and not on what you might have done or on what you might wish he would do. The only thing you can do is take care of yourself and the few things you are already doing.</p>

<p>Try not to get defensive or argue with him about these things as it only creates noise and distractions from the issue at hand which is, “What are YOU going to do about this?”</p>

<p>As in, “I"m sorry you feel I let you down as a mother. There’s not a lot I can do about that right now. What I want to know is what YOU are planning to do about _________ x,y,z now? What are you willing to do? What can you do? How can I help you?”</p>

<p>Remember you always have the right to say no.</p>

<p>Good luck to you. It sounds gruelling. It will get easier as time goes by to give him back responsibility for his own life. Right now you are being blindsided by his statements. Soon, you will have heard them all and can just let them go.</p>

<p>I am getting a lot from everyone’s posts, even though we don’t have this situation in the family.</p>

<p>RE therapists – I am a very committed feminist, so consequently it greatly pains me to have to say that many women therapists go into collusion with the male client against the female mother, wife, girlfriend. It’s happened more times than I can count.</p>

<p>My H is very good at manipulating therapists. Now he has a male therapist who is much firmer with him. But for many years I was the problem in the minds of a string of therapists, even though H lost $300,000 through very childish business decisions and I had to support the family.</p>

<p>Things are much better now, but I will have to work until 70, instead of my plan to retire much sooner.</p>

<p>I think Compmom is onto to something to. My S and I were very close, and many suffocatingly clsot (for him.) However, it was mostly his doing. Even as a baby we wouldn’t hold his occasional bottle (mostly nursed) but threw it on the floor. He wanted me there, and he wanted me holding it.</p>

<p>We happen to share the same sense of humor, tastes and academic interests. It is very hard for boys like that to separate from their moms, as she says. He chose “the girlfriend from hell” route. She detested me and my daughter and totally turned my son against us. It was the worst year of my life. She convinced him that everything was my fault and went through all the behaviors of an addict, but he was addicted to her.</p>

<p>We had almost no support. My H and D felt the same way about her I did. Therapists, friends, everyone called me over controlling because I wanted to get my boy away from this girl. I won’t go into the gruesome details. Eventually the situation changed. I am profoundly grateful to some providential grace.</p>

<p>Of course, drugs are a different issue. I am not analogizing. Although I must say that during this relationship he did smoke a lot more pot too. They texted so constantly that they texted when they were standing right next to each other, even if they were ostensibly conversing with another person.</p>

<p>For some kids, separation is difficult.</p>

<p>I am so sorry you are going through this. First, you are not responsible for his choices. He is. However, you may be enabling his addiction through actions that you just were unaware about. An example is giving an addict a credit card or any access to money. If you give him money he will spend it on his addiction. Stop giving him money or a credit card, just buy for him the things he needs. Needs, not wants. Needs = food and new clothes to replace something that is broken. That’s about it. </p>

<p>I think there is a step between kicking him out of the house and just continuing on the path that is not currently working. First, I’d take him out of school and have him concentrate on getting well. Make him get a job and pay you rent. Who cares if he works at Walmart for $8 an hour. He’ll be kept busy and he’ll see where his current choices are leading him. Any money earned can go to you and he can request money when he needs it, but it has to be for approved items. Going to the movies, ok, buy a prepaid ticket on Fandango - don’t give him the money. If he wants to continue to live in your house, he needs to follow your rules. Keep him on a very tight string. The time for “nice” mom is long over. </p>

<p>I also wanted to say that although he is telling you the therapist is agreeing with him blaming you; I would take that with a grain of salt. You have no idea what the therapist is saying to him -you only know how he is interpreting it and what he is saying to you. Talk to the therapist directly and find out what is going on. Basically, never believe anything he tells you without outside confirmation. He has proved himself untrustworthy. This is something he can earn back from you, but you need to be prepared for years of yo-yoing between being on track and falling off. Protect yourself and your younger children. Do not believe your DS about pretty much anything until he earns that trust back from you. Project yourself by managing your own expectations. </p>

<p>I wish you and your family the best of luck with this. Your family is on a journey that is not pleasant, but hopefully with much hard work will lead you all to a happy life.</p>

<p>Poetgrl is giving you some excellent advice in post #94. Co-Dependent No More was recommended reading for us when our son was discharged from inpatient therapy. </p>

<p>Addiction can take many forms. Our son can do nothing halfway- for a while he was into paintball. He spent every penny had earned on paintball equipment. When he got a phone- he was texting continuously. If we tried to take it from him it was as if we were depriving him of food. Alcohol and pot - not only did he try them but he used them to the extreme. </p>

<p>I started this thread two months ago looking for help for my son. You might find some of the recommendations and opinions to be helpful to you as well. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/865578-recommendations-please-inpatient-substance-abuse-centers.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/865578-recommendations-please-inpatient-substance-abuse-centers.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There is not going to be a quick fix to this problem. During inpatient therapy, our son was asked to assign “roles” to each person in the family. H was the enabler and I was the hero because I always wanted to fix things, always wanted to make everything better. That didn’t really help my son because he never had to live with the consequences of his mistakes. But it was interesting to learn that my H had actually been enabling son’s drinking without my knowledge. Communication and support between the spouses is critical for a child’s success in recovery. I know your husband is having a difficult time right now- but so are you. Don’t try to be a hero and save your husband from what’s happening at home right now. He needs to know and be involved in the decision making process.</p>

<p>Quote:
I also wanted to say that although he is telling you the therapist is agreeing with him blaming you; I would take that with a grain of salt. You have no idea what the therapist is saying to him -you only know how he is interpreting it and what he is saying to you. Talk to the therapist directly and find out what is going on.</p>

<p>This is true. It is also true that the therapist will not talk to you due to privacy laws. Unless your son signs a release, which I strongly urge you to have him do, you will not learn a thing from the therapist. However, you can request to have an appointment together, where you can talk with your S present.</p>

<p>Hang in there, your are on the right track!</p>

<p>I agree with those who say you are only hearing your son’s interpretation of what the therapist is saying. Remember, he is manipulating her as well. My earlier advice of allowing him to live on his own is only future advice. And I apologize if it sounded as if I was suggesting to “throw him out.” Such things can only be done after considerable thought, planning, and appropriate intervention. All things that you seem to be on track with. Go Mom!</p>

<p>Take with a grain of salt what he is saying about the therapist. I know my D who hates school came home one day from the therapist and said the therapist agrees that I should be able to leave HS early. Of course when talking with the therapist that is not exactly what the therapist said.
Regarding AL Anon. If started out for families and friends of people with drinking problems. It now serves all forms of addictions. I have a friend whose D is anorexic and she finds support in Al Anon. Al-Anon has some great literature. One point they make is that we go for ourselves to learn now to deal with the effects of substance abuse on our own lives. You will learn that the only life you have control over is your own. You can not stop your son from using. You also will find other people going through the same pain you are. It is a place to realize you are not alone.
In our family we have dealt with addictions and severe depression. I think as a parent it is very difficult. As a mother we want to take care of our children. But at some point taking care of becomes enabling bad behavior. But as a parent it can be heartbreaking to turn your back on your child.
One mantra we used is we will support you as long as you are doing the next right thing. If not you are on your own.
Regarding 30 days of treatment. It would only be a start. I think it is not long enough. The first week or ten days is spent in shock and getting used to being in treatment. You have 2 weeks of serious treatment and then you usually have a family program. The last week or so you are already mentally prepared to leave and that is your primary focus.Also treatment is only the beginning. The person has to be willing to do the work once they leave. Many young adults are not ready to do the work it entails to be successful. Many relapse and end up back in treatment or worse.
Regarding NA,CA and AA. I think it depends on the area. Each addict/alcoholic I know has their own preference. One young woman I know with an eating disorder found that CA was the most helpful and welcoming to her. She has never used Cocaine.
Also look into some of Melody Beattie’s other books. One I have found really helpful is “52 weeks of Conscious Contact”</p>